Religion
Related: About this forumSpiritual but Not Religious an Oxymoron?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/candy-gunther-brown-phd/spiritual-but-not-religio_1_b_5054627.htmlCandy Gunther Brown, Ph.D.
Author, 'Healing Gods' and 'Testing Prayer'
Posted: 03/31/2014 12:22 pm EDT Updated: 03/31/2014 12:59 pm EDT Print Article
"Religion" has become a bad word for many Americans. This does not necessarily mean that Americans have become any less religious. Instead, many people have come to prefer different language to describe their religious beliefs and practices. This is because the word "religion" has accumulated negative connotations. Americans tend to equate religion with Christianity. And especially, people think of guilt-inducing proscriptions on behavior, seemingly arbitrary rules, hell-fire preaching on sin and judgment, unreasoning insistence on dogma and doctrinal orthodoxy, divisive sectarianism, and aggressive proselytizing. Relatively few people want to be religious if that is all it means. Many people may prefer to describe themselves as interested in "spirituality" or the "sacred." Even many Christians dislike the word religion, and insist that Christianity is not about religion, but "relationship" with God.
Even so, public-opinion polls show that a majority of Americans self-identify as both spiritual and religious. According to one large-scale survey reported in 2008, three-fourths (74 percent) of Americans describe themselves as very or somewhat "religious." Two-thirds (66 percent) identify as "spiritual." And more than half (57 percent) accept both labels. Although 20 percent of Americans responded to a 2012 poll by declining to identify with a specific religious institution, 68 percent of the religiously unaffiliated believe in God, and 37 percent describe themselves as "spiritual, but not religious." Two-thirds of religious "Nones" affirm metaphysical or paranormal beliefs, such as the existence of nonmaterial energies, angels and demons, or the possibility of psychic communication.
Just how different are religion and spirituality? Some people use the term spirituality to denote an individual's private seeking after sacred meaning untethered to public adherence to traditional religious institutions, doctrines, creeds or rituals. Yet, religion and spirituality fulfill many of the same functions, for instance, affirming a person's place in the cosmos and offering a sense of purpose, meaning, and hope. It may be more useful, for analytic purposes, to think of spirituality as one way of being and talking about being religious, rather than as something distinct from religion.
What then is religion? The term has been defined in myriad ways. Many scholars prefer functional to substantive definitions of religion -- not just checking off a list of distinguishing characteristics such as belief in a deity, but observing how religions function, for instance to set apart the sacred from the profane, grapple with ultimate problems of human life, or give ultimate explanations of the world.
more at link
Deep13
(39,154 posts)If one does not mean literally a connection with spirits, then it avoids being oxymoronic.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)What people mean when they describe themselves as spiritual can vary tremendously.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Which is why the question is obviously not an oxymoron. Obvious to anyone without column inches to fill on Huff Post, that is.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)"Religion" is not all that settled, either. They don't mean much at all out of context, which makes this exercise.
--imm
Deep13
(39,154 posts)where one can square an argument by using two different definitions for the same term.
pscot
(21,023 posts)to have a transcendant experience. The right kind of mushrooms can get you there.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)pscot
(21,023 posts)Prayer and meditation can be efficacious if done properly. Dervishes spin. There are many paths. Organized religion seldom speaks of these matters.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Transcendance may or may not involve religious concepts or a notion of god.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)And thank goodness for that.
pinto
(106,886 posts)The Road Not Taken
By Robert Frost
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I remember the first time I read it and how it changed my perspective.
Response to cbayer (Reply #15)
pinto This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Religion implies organized worship, which I don't buy into.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Many are leaving the church but still describing themselves as believers or some variant of believers.
And metaphysical may or may not include a concept of god.
So many different ways, aren't there.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)The concepts are often outstanding and truly worthy of consideration and implementation. Yet religionists insist on focusing on the attached mythology - creation, divinity of Jesus, etc. - for which I have no time.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)your run of the mill believer.
Some religious people focus on the attached mythology, while others focus on what they see as the primary messages of peace, social justice and civil rights. Some do this within organizations, while others do not.
Sounds like your problem is with the zealots who function primarily within organizations, which describes the religious right pretty well.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Just because I don't follow their path to enlightenment does not make their paths invalid.
I grew up in the Catholic Church, and by the time I left high school I had pretty much figured out that Catholic dogma and catechism were not for me. But I still have great respect for many Catholics. I remember way back in the 90's I was canvassing door-to-door for the HRC in support of ENDA and the Ryan White Care Act. One of the best experiences I had came when I knocked on a convent door, and I had a great discussion of LGBT rights with the nun who answered. The convent contributed to the campaign as well.
Likewise, my daughter's extended family on her mother's side is Mormon. Great people, all of them. I don't agree with their views on many things, but I respect their commitment to their faith and their family.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Could not agree more and very well said.
Love your story about meeting with the nun. During the height of the epidemic I worked with many agencies in New Orleans. It is a very catholic city, but many in the church were deeply involved in the projects. I don't think we could have done what we did do without them.
I also have an increasingly diverse family structure which now involves a Muslim son-in-law and his family. This is the sort of thing that will lead to the most profound changes.
It is a pleasure to talk with you Maedhros. Glad you are engaging in the Religion group.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Shouldn't we be shouting at each other, though?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I knew something didn't feel quite right about it, lol.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Does not necessarily mean that all paths are equally valid, or that some are not simply wrong. That fact that someone calls something their "path" or their "faith" or their "belief" does not automatically entitle it to respect, deference or immunity from criticism.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)to enlightenment.
What I respect is the effort to better one's self and to seek answers to the big questions. I don't respect those who use their beliefs as a bludgeon to make others conform.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that you don't even recognize it. The Mormon Church has used their beliefs as a bludgeon to make others conform for a very long time. Those who belong to and support it are complicit in that, as are those who take the attitude "No Mormons I know are like that" to defend their praise of that "different path".
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I certainly don't think you are in a position to issue statements about my state of mind based upon a few forum posts.
No faith on Earth is free of warts, and I recognize that the Catholic and Mormon churches have their blind spots. As with politics, I try to praise what I find of value, and reject what I find to be useless or harmful.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Why else would one characterize the deliberate and calculated attempt to deprive one group of humans of their equal rights as a "blind spot"? Those of us in the real world, unblinded by the need for complete relativism, call it blatant bigotry and hatred.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)You are a very confused person, and seem to be picking a fight where one doesn't exist.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that you respect Mormons' commitment to their faith, and on the other hand that you "don't respect those who use their beliefs as a bludgeon to make others conform". Well, as pointed out here, as as everyone paying attention knows, that's exactly what Mormons do with their faith. And their wealth and political power. The Mormon church has fought hard to make same sex marriage illegal. And ask your smiling, well-scrubbed Mormon friends how their church treats people who leave it.
If anyone is confused here, it isn't me.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)
Your current approach is off-putting.
/ignore.
ON EDIT: Those Mormons you were denigrating are my family. You know nothing about them, and nothing about me. To assume that I am condoning actions of the Mormon Church by showing respect for the beliefs of my family members is asinine. Not every individual of a church can be painted with the same broad brush. Do you believe that all Muslims are bomb-throwing caricatures? Every Catholic is a child molester? Does expressing respect for individual Muslims or Catholics automatically mean that I condone terrorism or pedophilia?
I'll answer that for you - NO!
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that people hate to have their cherished views debunked, and would rather stick their fingers in their ears than hear uncomfortable truths.
You'll fit in well among the religionistas here.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Just not an obnoxious one.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)You'll fit in well among the religionistas here. They include plenty of "thank you god that I'm not like other atheists" atheists among their ranks.
Response to skepticscott (Reply #45)
Post removed
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)is part of that discussion. I know you'd like to pretend otherwise, but it's a fact.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)You've managed to call me confused, obnoxious, off-putting, asinine, a fool, an arrogant ass and a threadcrapper. All without bothering once to address the substantive points I raised about what sorts of things should be entitled to "tolerance".
I would certainly hate to see what you would have called me if you WERE being obnoxious.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)In fact, I specifically mentioned that I don't agree with their doctrine.
I was speaking of specific individuals, namely my daughter's grandmother, aunts, uncles and cousins. I respect them - they are good people, and their commitment to their faith is part of who they are. Should I hate them because of it?
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)is a fundamentally bigoted, sexist and homophobic organization, that has fought hard against equal rights for gays and lesbians. No progressive worthy of the name should be respecting or "tolerant" of that. As I expected, you've trotted out the "yeah, but no Mormons I know are like that..it's all those other Mormons, related to other people" meme, but those who support the Mormon church, especially with their tithe, as all proper Mormons do, are directly complicit in its bigotry and disrespect for other faiths.
And please, spare me the bluster about "ignore". It's obvious you don't mean it.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)I just found it interesting that you basically summed up their legal case: they shouldn't be forced to honor someone else's beliefs. I mean, if the owner truly believes that anything which interferes with the implantation of the embryo in the uterus is murder, who are we to tell him he's wrong? Can you prove he's wrong?
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I was not even thinking of the Hobby Lobby case.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Pity you still aren't.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)but really, what's with the dog pile? You're the second person to insult me because I dared to post in favor of religious tolerance. Do you people swarm every thread on religion and spirituality to harangue and attack anyone who posts? I made ABSOLUTELY NO STATEMENT WHATSOEVER in support of Hobby Lobby, and in fact stated unequivocally that their case is ridiculous.
You don't know anything about me, or of what I am thinking. Go pick a fight with someone else.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)That's strange.
I just found it odd that what you said about not forcing beliefs on someone else is pretty much Hobby Lobby's argument. But you declared it's stupid when they do it. Seems like a bit of a double standard.
The only one fighting and getting belligerent is you, I'm afraid. If you'd like to clarify your contradictory positions, feel free. Or not, doesn't bother me.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)it WAS an insult to challenge his entrenched thinking. But our friend was apparently too tolerant for his own good.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Albert Einstein said "I want to know the thoughts of God."
He thought he could learn the nature of God by studying the laws of physics. Like Baruch Spinoza.
A lot of scientists find spirituality through the study of physics/chemistry.
As Giordano Bruno allegedly said, "Your god is too small" to include the majesty of the galaxies and the stars.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I'm pretty much in the camp of folks in your second to last paragraph - I associate 'religion' with a defined set of precepts, scriptures, rituals, services, organization, etc, but spirituality can simply be your own philosophical and/or supernatural beliefs, which need not have any particular adherence to some more defined orthodoxy. So proclaiming oneself 'spiritual but not religious' seems like a reasonable category for such polls.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)One can be spiritual/not religious, religious/not spiritual, religious/spiritual or not religious/not spiritual.
And even within any of those categories, each individual is different.