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Eugene

(61,595 posts)
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:59 PM Jan 2015

Pope Francis uses new year mass to condemn slavery and human trafficking

Source: Reuters

Pope Francis uses new year mass to condemn slavery and human trafficking

Reuters
The Guardian, Thursday 1 January 2015 13.42 GMT

Pope Francis has urged people of all religions and cultures to unite to fight modern slavery and human trafficking, saying in his first mass of 2015 that everyone has a God-given right to be free.

The service at St Peter’s Basilica marks the Roman Catholic church’s World Day of Peace. This year’s theme is No Longer Slaves, but Brothers and Sisters.

“All of us are called (by God) to be free, all are called to be sons and daughters, and each, according to his or her own responsibilities, is called to combat modern forms of enslavement. From every people, culture and religion, let us join our forces,” he said.

Last month Francis appealed to consumers to shun low-cost goods that may be the product of forced labour or other forms of exploitation.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]


Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/01/pope-francis-new-year-mass-slavery-human-trafficking

86 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pope Francis uses new year mass to condemn slavery and human trafficking (Original Post) Eugene Jan 2015 OP
Excellent choice of 2015 priority cbayer Jan 2015 #1
Me too. rug Jan 2015 #2
Those uniforms could cause one to die cbayer Jan 2015 #3
Here's a list of their weapons TexasProgresive Jan 2015 #6
Thanks for that. I was just teasing them. cbayer Jan 2015 #8
I've read that some of the classic clown attire in the European tradition were from the same period. pinto Jan 2015 #4
Is this an excellent choice too? "Pope says same-sex marriage threatens family" cleanhippie Jan 2015 #84
I'm calling BS on the Pope Cartoonist Jan 2015 #5
Calling BS on the Pope? cbayer Jan 2015 #7
literalists Cartoonist Jan 2015 #10
That does not define a literalist at all. cbayer Jan 2015 #14
The Pope is a Catholic. Catholics, unlike fundamentalists and evangelicals, aren't literalists. pnwmom Jan 2015 #61
"Taking a stand against slavery and human trafficking is a very good and very christian thing to do" cleanhippie Jan 2015 #85
Oh Lord help me! hrmjustin Jan 2015 #9
Keep praying Cartoonist Jan 2015 #11
I have no desire to run you out of here. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #12
Do you agree or disagree with the Bible? Cartoonist Jan 2015 #13
Yes I believe in the bible but I don't believe everything is literal. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #15
He appears to be a literalist and unable to see the contradictions or cbayer Jan 2015 #18
Agreed! This line of argument is ridiculous imo. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #19
What is your evidence for that? The Catholic Church does not teach a literalist view of the Bible. pnwmom Jan 2015 #62
I think you may have misunderstood. I was speaking of cartoonist, not the pope. cbayer Jan 2015 #64
So those quotes don't bother you in the least? Cartoonist Jan 2015 #20
They were the cultural values of the time. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #21
So we're on the same page Cartoonist Jan 2015 #23
I have no links to give you. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #24
At the same time Cartoonist Jan 2015 #26
I don't attend those churches but yes I detest thst they use those verses. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #27
Common Ground Cartoonist Jan 2015 #30
You said the pope had to revise the bible. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #32
Some one should Cartoonist Jan 2015 #38
That is not possible. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #40
Why not? Cartoonist Jan 2015 #42
You can not touch the scriptures. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #43
That's why atheists like myself have no respect for religion Cartoonist Jan 2015 #45
Would you respect religion is the scriptures were changed? hrmjustin Jan 2015 #48
It would go up a notch Cartoonist Jan 2015 #52
Many believers love science and are scientists. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #54
And your particularly dogmatic and rigid position may be cbayer Jan 2015 #50
"the scriptures" have been touched repeatedly over the last 2500 years or so. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #56
No. I am not changing the scriptures. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #58
They have not. okasha Jan 2015 #53
Wasn't there just a thread recently about this? Cartoonist Jan 2015 #59
No. okasha Jan 2015 #66
Did Jesus free the Gays? Cartoonist Jan 2015 #68
First century CE gays didn't need freeing. okasha Jan 2015 #73
Oh Hai Okasha Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #81
Oh, hai Warren. okasha Jan 2015 #82
Again accusing me of copping out, when I clearly have not. cbayer Jan 2015 #39
Making up data destroys your argument. cbayer Jan 2015 #37
The pope disagrees with that assessment Cartoonist Jan 2015 #41
Hey, check this out. cbayer Jan 2015 #46
To the contrary: on the subject of gay people, Pope Francis said: "Who am I to judge?" pnwmom Jan 2015 #67
I guess you missed the backtracking. nt Cartoonist Jan 2015 #70
He didn't backtrack. The paper produced for the Synod said gay people should be welcomed into pnwmom Jan 2015 #72
pnwoman was good enough to provide a direct source. Can you provide one for the "backtracking". cbayer Jan 2015 #76
Here's a post by somebodt named cbayer Cartoonist Jan 2015 #80
Well played….. to a point. cbayer Jan 2015 #83
Religious leaders have said this over and over again. You must have missed it. cbayer Jan 2015 #31
Cop out Cartoonist Jan 2015 #35
Oh, they probably didn't get your memo that they were supposed to say something about the cbayer Jan 2015 #44
The Church teaches that you can't take individual sentences out of context and rely on them to be pnwmom Jan 2015 #65
From the article cited in the OP - pinto Jan 2015 #77
I neither copped out nor said "never mind". cbayer Jan 2015 #16
You read that line literally. Cartoonist Jan 2015 #22
One of the most amusing things about you is how you think I am stupid. cbayer Jan 2015 #25
I have no idea who HR is. Cartoonist Jan 2015 #28
You are a literalist. If you think that incorporating historical context when reading the cbayer Jan 2015 #33
Let me diagram it for you. Cartoonist Jan 2015 #36
Ah, is that what you meant? You meant to dismiss both of us. cbayer Jan 2015 #47
Now you got it. nt Cartoonist Jan 2015 #49
Well, how did that work out for you? cbayer Jan 2015 #51
You still can't counter it. Cartoonist Jan 2015 #55
Can't counter what? cbayer Jan 2015 #57
Is there anything in the bible Cartoonist Jan 2015 #60
Of course it doesn't need a deity. cbayer Jan 2015 #63
0-7 Leave It Bryce Butler Jan 2015 #78
. libodem Jan 2015 #17
That will make the Republicans very angry! jen1980 Jan 2015 #29
I love to make republicans angry, but I really don't think cbayer Jan 2015 #34
But they do support corporations that import cheap products made by slaves pnwmom Jan 2015 #69
Ok, that's a good point. cbayer Jan 2015 #71
This is the line I was referring to: pnwmom Jan 2015 #74
I see what you are saying and what I hope the person I was responding to was expressing. cbayer Jan 2015 #75
Might help if the slavers and human smugglers were good Catholics, mr blur Jan 2015 #79
He also confirms his anti-gay, homophobic bigotry. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #86

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
1. Excellent choice of 2015 priority
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:06 PM
Jan 2015

I like that there were peace marches into Vatican City. Would like to know more about that.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
3. Those uniforms could cause one to die
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:45 PM
Jan 2015

from laughing…

They may need to update their weapons, as well.

TexasProgresive

(12,148 posts)
6. Here's a list of their weapons
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:40 PM
Jan 2015

And not all wear that uniform.

Traditional arms

Sword
Command baton
Partisan
Halberd
Flamberge
Cuirass with spaulders

Modern arms

Vetterli rifle (Retired from service)
Mauser 98k (Retired from service)
Dreyse M1907 (Retired from service)
Suomi KP/-31 (Retired from service)
SIG MKMS (Retired from service)
Karabiner K31 (Maintained in inventory)
SIG P220 (P75)
Glock 19
Steyr TMP
Heckler & Koch MP5A3
Heckler & Koch MP7A1
SIG SG 550
SIG SG 552

Less-than-lethal weapons

Pepper spray
Tear gas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard#Modern_arms

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
8. Thanks for that. I was just teasing them.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:42 PM
Jan 2015

I am sure that they are a very competent and well trained security force.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
4. I've read that some of the classic clown attire in the European tradition were from the same period.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:49 PM
Jan 2015

Medieval attire.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
5. I'm calling BS on the Pope
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:34 PM
Jan 2015

If he means what he says, then he has to revise the Bible. He at least has to address these quotes from the Bible. He has to say the Bible has flaws. He has to say the Bible is not the "word of God" but the word of men.

Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Exodus 21:20-21
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,

Colossians 4:1
Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.

Titus 2 -10
Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior.

Exodus 21:1-36
“Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’

Colossians 3:22
Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
7. Calling BS on the Pope?
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jan 2015

He doesn't have to change anything. The bible is full of contradictions and the parts about slavery have to be read in the cultural and historical context in which they were written.

Taking a stand against slavery and human trafficking is a very good and very christian thing to do.

I'm am sure that if he had the time, he would be glad to sit down and address your concerns with you. Where did you get the idea that he was a literalist?

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
10. literalists
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jan 2015

Any time someone quotes the Bible without qualification , they are a literalist. That includes the Pope. He can't ignore these quotes from the Bible. If he wants to dismiss them because of the cultural and historical context in which they were written, then why doesn't he address the homophobia of the Bible for the same reasons. It is dishonest to give him a free pass on one issue while allowing him to continue other equally vile sentiments the Holy Book has.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
14. That does not define a literalist at all.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:53 PM
Jan 2015

You just quoted the bible. Are you a literalist? I suspect you may be.

You are right that he can not ignore those quotes and I am sure that he is very familiar with them. In terms of addressing homophobia, I would very much like to see him do that as well.

I am not dishonest. I am able to see individuals with all their complexities and their grey areas. I don't generally paint an individual with a single brush because I disagree with some of what they say or do.

What is dishonest is to condemn someone as all bad or all good based only on some parts of them in order to promote your personal and biased agenda.

I'm giving him more than a free pass for this, I'm giving him a big kudos. I don't allow him to do anything, but I will voice my opposition when he takes positions with which I disagree.

What, do you think he is god or something?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
61. The Pope is a Catholic. Catholics, unlike fundamentalists and evangelicals, aren't literalists.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:07 PM
Jan 2015

But you have a very odd definition of literalist.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/05/pope-insists-bibles-truth-is-found-in-its-totality/

While Catholics believe the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it is true, one cannot take individual biblical quotes or passages and say each one is literally true, Pope Benedict XVI said.

“It is possible to perceive the Sacred Scriptures as the word of God” only by looking at the Bible as a whole, “a totality in which the individual elements enlighten each other and open the way to understanding,” the Pope wrote in a message to the Pontifical Biblical Commission.

“It is not possible to apply the criterion of inspiration or of absolute truth in a mechanical way, extrapolating a single phrase or expression,” the Pope wrote in the message released today at the Vatican.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
85. "Taking a stand against slavery and human trafficking is a very good and very christian thing to do"
Sat Jan 17, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jan 2015

Is taking a stand against equality a very good and christian thing to do too?

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500200.htm

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
11. Keep praying
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:47 PM
Jan 2015

You can't run me out of here like you did in that other group when I made the same assertions.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
12. I have no desire to run you out of here.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:49 PM
Jan 2015

I have no super powers in here.

But your i could think of no other words for your post.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
18. He appears to be a literalist and unable to see the contradictions or
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:56 PM
Jan 2015

distinguish allegory from history.

It's a problem for all literalists.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
62. What is your evidence for that? The Catholic Church does not teach a literalist view of the Bible.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:08 PM
Jan 2015

That is a major difference between Catholics and many protestants.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
64. I think you may have misunderstood. I was speaking of cartoonist, not the pope.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:11 PM
Jan 2015

I understand that the catholic church does not teach literalism.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
20. So those quotes don't bother you in the least?
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:59 PM
Jan 2015

This isn't a case of taking them literally, it is a case of outright reprehensible belief that has no business in a Holy book.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
21. They were the cultural values of the time.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:03 PM
Jan 2015

I am a gay man but I don't believe in the verses that say my being gay is a sin.

There many things in the bible I don't sgree with but there is more that I do,

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
23. So we're on the same page
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:06 PM
Jan 2015

The Bible has outdated ideas in its pages. Why won't the Pope or any other preacher say that? If they have, can you supply a link?

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
26. At the same time
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:11 PM
Jan 2015

The majority of clergy continues to pull qoutes from the Bible to condemn homosexuality. And they use those quotes literally. Must make you feel just a little squeemish.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
30. Common Ground
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jan 2015

I read that thread about what theists would like atheists to understand. I can see where theists hold some of the same progressive ideals as non-believers. I still see hypocrisy, right here in this thread. When I point out vile verses in the bible that I think should be condemned by progressives, I get a cop out from the sailor and a "Oh Lord help me!" from you.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
43. You can not touch the scriptures.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jan 2015

I would not be fore it nor would a clear majority of Christians.

You would never get agreement on it.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
45. That's why atheists like myself have no respect for religion
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:41 PM
Jan 2015

The ugliness stays. The cancer is never cured.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
52. It would go up a notch
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:48 PM
Jan 2015

Sure. That is what is so superior about science. It grows as new knowledge appears. It does not stay rooted in historical times. It does not perpetuate old thinking and try to dismiss bad science as just one of those things. But like you say, religion will never keep up. It took the church over 400 years to apologize to Galileo.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
54. Many believers love science and are scientists.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:51 PM
Jan 2015

We don't live in the dark ages.

Religious people don't all stand still.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
50. And your particularly dogmatic and rigid position may be
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:44 PM
Jan 2015

why non-believers like me have no respect for those that share your position.

The ugliness stays. The cancer is never cured.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
56. "the scriptures" have been touched repeatedly over the last 2500 years or so.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:54 PM
Jan 2015

In addition, when any of you "non literalists" decide to ignore, re-interpret, or otherwise revise "the scriptures" you are doing just that: modifying them to suit your purposes.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
58. No. I am not changing the scriptures.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:58 PM
Jan 2015

I am interpeting it. I am using my own mind to decide what I think is true and relevant for today's world.

I maybe a literalist on the gospels but not the entire bible.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
59. Wasn't there just a thread recently about this?
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:59 PM
Jan 2015

The lost books of the bible.

OK, they were never in the Bible officially. Still, don't you think it's time for a revision?

okasha

(11,573 posts)
66. No.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:16 PM
Jan 2015

I think it's time for literalists to learn to read historical documents in both social and literary context. Exodus is the only foundation epic based on the freeing of a slave population. In Luke, Jesus, quoting Isaiah, declares that he has come to free captives and the oppressed. That includes slaves.

How'd you miss those passages?

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
68. Did Jesus free the Gays?
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:26 PM
Jan 2015

Someone should. I used to hold some beliefs that I am not proud of. I attribute it to my youth and upbringing. I don't hold those views any more. It's time for the Bible to grow up. I thing it is a form of apologia to wave it off citing historicity or literalism. Acknowledge what is said and actually come out and say it was wrong. Slavery was never right, I don't care when it happened. As long as these quotes are in the Bible, some shit disturber can condemn homosexuality and wave the Bible as his shield. Just like the Pope does.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
73. First century CE gays didn't need freeing.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:36 PM
Jan 2015

Jesus did, however, heal a Roman Centurion's "beloved youth,"so he seems to have been just fine with LGBT people.

David and Jonathan don't seem to have been "just good friends," either.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
81. Oh Hai Okasha
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 10:19 PM
Jan 2015

as you never provide any sources for any of your assertions, no thanks.

Is it your contention that there have been no modifications to any parts of the OT and NT over the last 2500 years?

okasha

(11,573 posts)
82. Oh, hai Warren.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 11:07 PM
Jan 2015

I found the footnote in the Wiki article on Rhyme that you misinterpreted to make your erroneous clairm that Aristophanes wrote The Wasps in rhymed verse. No wonder you refused to cite your source! How embarrassing that would have been!

Did I say "that there have been no modifications to any parts of the.OT and NT over the last 2500 yeas?". No, Warren, I didn't say that.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
39. Again accusing me of copping out, when I clearly have not.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:33 PM
Jan 2015

You want me to condemn those verses. No problem. I totally and absolutely condemn them.

The hypocrisy, cartoon man, is in condemning a literal interpretation of the bible while holding one yourself.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
37. Making up data destroys your argument.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:31 PM
Jan 2015

The majority of clergy do not pull out quotes to condemn homosexuality.



And the numbers the support GLBT marriage rights is growing pretty exponentially.

Does misrepresenting the position of "the majority of clergy" by making up information make you a little squeamish?

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
41. The pope disagrees with that assessment
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:34 PM
Jan 2015

He continues to condemn homosexuality. He probably expects all the other priests in the RC to back him up.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
46. Hey, check this out.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:41 PM
Jan 2015
http://catholicsformarriageequality.net

The pope does not yet endorse GLBT marriage equality, but he is not supported by all the other priests in the RCC.

Give him time, he might come around just like all those other denominations have.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
67. To the contrary: on the subject of gay people, Pope Francis said: "Who am I to judge?"
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jan 2015
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/pope-and-change-how-francis-building

Pope Francis made headlines this weekend when he told reporters that if a priest is gay and seeks the Lord, “who am I to judge?”

On Tuesday, the Morning Joe panel weighed in on the shift and what it means for the future of the Church.

“I think this statement goes not only to gay priests in the Catholic Church, but a much larger world view that the pope is willing to express,” host Joe Scarborough said. “The statement ‘who am I to judge?’ is an unassailable statement, because it comes straight out of Matthew.”

The New York Times’ Jeremy Peters agreed, remarking that the pope’s wording hinted to a more accepting and open view than the pope conveyed.

“I found it so striking,” Peters added. “He used the word gay, the English word gay. He was speaking in Italian and that’s a word that even some of our own Supreme Court justices won’t use because…they get too squeamish about it and they use the word a lot of gay people consider to be pejorative which is homosexual.”

SNIP

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
72. He didn't backtrack. The paper produced for the Synod said gay people should be welcomed into
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:36 PM
Jan 2015

the Church and recognized for their gifts.

It was Church conservatives who've tried to backtrack on what the Pope has said. There is an ongoing battle between the Pope and these conservatives on a number of fronts.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
76. pnwoman was good enough to provide a direct source. Can you provide one for the "backtracking".
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:46 PM
Jan 2015

Something that specifically quotes him as condemning homosexuality would be most helpful, because you have made this statement repeatedly but provide not a shred of evidence to support it.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
83. Well played….. to a point.
Fri Jan 2, 2015, 10:53 AM
Jan 2015

I was disappointed in this statement but further discussion did provide some clarification. He did not take the position of condemning homosexuality, as you repeatedly state, but did walk back some of his earlier more positive statements.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
31. Religious leaders have said this over and over again. You must have missed it.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:21 PM
Jan 2015

Here's a clue. Do a google search for "the bible is not literal" and you will find innumerable links to religious scholars and leaders that reject literalism.

And while you are at it, you can do the same search with the word pope or catholic in there so that you can educate yourself on the RCC's position regarding literalism.

You are the literalist, along with about 30% of the US population. Everyone else believes it has to be read critically and interpreted in light of the time it was written.

It is not surprising that you would find some reason to not support what the pope is doing and saying about slavery and human trafficking, but it's pretty tragic.

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but since you asked for a link specifically about the pope, here you go. It's Benedict in 2011:

https://www.thetrumpet.com/article/7757.21583.131.0/europe/vatican/pope-dont-take-bible-literally?preview

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
35. Cop out
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:26 PM
Jan 2015

Did you even read that article? I found nothing in it that would dismiss those earlier quotes I posted. The pope still contends that homosexuality is wrong. Where does he get that idea?

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
44. Oh, they probably didn't get your memo that they were supposed to say something about the
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jan 2015

old testament passages on slavery. He probably just assumed that anyone who could think critically would understand that he was endorsing a position which completely contradicted those passages.

I am sure if you text the pope, he will revise his statement to make it clear to you that he doesn't support those passages.

I reject the pope's position on GLBT marriage equality and hope that it will change over time, but I am not so rigid that I will condemn everything he does because I don't like some of it.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
65. The Church teaches that you can't take individual sentences out of context and rely on them to be
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:15 PM
Jan 2015

literally true.



http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/05/pope-insists-bibles-truth-is-found-in-its-totality/

While Catholics believe the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it is true, one cannot take individual biblical quotes or passages and say each one is literally true, Pope Benedict XVI said.

“It is possible to perceive the Sacred Scriptures as the word of God” only by looking at the Bible as a whole, “a totality in which the individual elements enlighten each other and open the way to understanding,” the Pope wrote in a message to the Pontifical Biblical Commission.

“It is not possible to apply the criterion of inspiration or of absolute truth in a mechanical way, extrapolating a single phrase or expression,” the Pope wrote in the message released today at the Vatican.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
77. From the article cited in the OP -
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:52 PM
Jan 2015

“All of us are called (by God) to be free, all are called to be sons and daughters, and each, according to his or her own responsibilities, is called to combat modern forms of enslavement. From every people, culture and religion, let us join our forces,” he said.

A quote from the Pope, for what it's worth.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
22. You read that line literally.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:04 PM
Jan 2015

There were two parts to that quote, one addressed you, and the other addressed HR.
You did indeed cop out, and HR did indeed say something similar to "never mind".

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
25. One of the most amusing things about you is how you think I am stupid.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:10 PM
Jan 2015

This is what you said:

Or will you cop out like the sailor and say, "never mind."


I know that I am "the sailor", so the "cop out" and "never mind" are both attributed to me. Tell me how I "copped out"? I answered you directly.

I have no idea who HR is.

Now, excuse me. I have to go water board some of my slaves. I specifically asked for 2 olives, and they gave me only 1.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
28. I have no idea who HR is.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:14 PM
Jan 2015

I won't follow that with a remark like "how you think I am stupid"

Answer: HRMJustin

Anytime someone tries to deflect something by saying, Oh, it was just part of the historical times, that is a Copout with a capital "C".

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
33. You are a literalist. If you think that incorporating historical context when reading the
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:24 PM
Jan 2015

bible is a Copout, then you are a literalist.

As to HR (I've never seen him referred to that way), your comment was directed at me, not him. You just can't alter the truth of that.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
36. Let me diagram it for you.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:31 PM
Jan 2015

First, the reply was to HR, not you.

Or will you cop out like the sailor and say, "never mind."

Or will you cop out like the sailor: this part refers to you.
and say, "never mind.": will you, HR, say, "never mind."

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
51. Well, how did that work out for you?
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:47 PM
Jan 2015

Or was it just a "cop out" because you couldn't counter what we were saying to you?

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
55. You still can't counter it.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:52 PM
Jan 2015

I can point to vile quotes from the Bible. Point out some vile quotes by me. I admit to being mean sometimes, but I never endorsed slavery or homophobia. Nor did I ever apologize for such vile positions by saying they were OK in the past. They were always vile, and the Bible, and the religions based on it must own them.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
57. Can't counter what?
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:57 PM
Jan 2015

You do not endorse slavery or homophobia. Bravo, neither do I. I would actually venture a guess that no one here does.

You are a literalist. You take the position that if one embraces anything from the bible, then they must embrace it all. 30% of people in the US agree with you. The other 70% have a more nuanced view based on critical thinking.

Is there anything in the bible you think is very positive and that you can really agree with?

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
60. Is there anything in the bible
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:01 PM
Jan 2015

Yes, but it doesn't need a deity to be there in the first place. You know, things like love thy neighbor.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
63. Of course it doesn't need a deity.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:09 PM
Jan 2015

There are quite a few things in the bible that I like, that have spoken to me, that have seen me through rough times.

There are also quite a few things that I find pretty horrifying and really repulse me.

I don't relate any of it to a deity, because I have no specific beliefs about a deity.

There are other books that I have a similar relationship with. I can't think of a single book that I am 100% on board with. For that to happen, I guess I would have to write it myself.

There are literalists out there, but I think it's important to recognize that the vast majority of people do not read the bible literally, including the pope. There are many who would love to revise it, but I think that is highly unlikely to happen. So, in light of that, I am glad that people read it and use it with discretion as to what to embrace and what to reject.

Bryce Butler

(338 posts)
78. 0-7 Leave It
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 05:31 PM
Jan 2015

On Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'm calling BS on the Pope
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=174565

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Check the date. This is 2015.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:29 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The bible is not opposed to slavery, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be. It does mean that we need to cite something other than bible in our objections though. I think that is the point of this post.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes it is 2015 - what's the point of the alert? It's pinto's opinion. You don't like it, tell pinto.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Cartoonist is debating the post. Sharing biblical evidence to support his claim.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why was this post alerted on?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
34. I love to make republicans angry, but I really don't think
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:26 PM
Jan 2015

they support slavery and human trafficking.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
69. But they do support corporations that import cheap products made by slaves
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:26 PM
Jan 2015

and Pope Francis has said we shouldn't purchase those products.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
74. This is the line I was referring to:
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:39 PM
Jan 2015

"Last month Francis appealed to consumers to shun low-cost goods that may be the product of forced labour or other forms of exploitation."

That's pretty clear -- and won't be welcomed by corporations that rely on forced labor, or their supporters.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
75. I see what you are saying and what I hope the person I was responding to was expressing.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:43 PM
Jan 2015

It's a back door approach to forced and unfair labor, not a direct endorsement of slavery or human trafficking.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
79. Might help if the slavers and human smugglers were good Catholics,
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 06:19 PM
Jan 2015

otherwise, who cares what he thinks about anything?

Seriously, unless they are a member of his church, why would anyone care what he thinks?

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