Why do some so-called "atheists" consider distroying chuches and mosques...

[stone space]

...a religious value?

As an atheist myself, I'm really having difficulty understanding this.

I can't imagine what could be a more anti-religious value or action.

Please help this atheist understand.

[haikugal]

1. Could you

please give an example of what you're talking about?

[mercuryblues]

3. I was

also wondering. Considering all the church burnings and bombing I have heard about are done for religious or racist reasons.

[bvf]

9. Don't expect one.

It's a childish cry for attention. Nothing more.

[F4lconF16]

2. I love posts like this.

A self-proclaimed atheist attacks other atheists for doing something terrible with no link, no evidence whatsoever. Then, by virtue of that lack of evidence, manages to implicate all atheists in this terrible thing they may or may not have done. Bonus points for attacking anti-theists (of which I am one) as well.

I clicked on this forum today hoping there'd be something interesting. Clearly it's just the usual bullshit. Annnd I'm leaving again.

[cbayer]

5. Bye! Sorry you didn't enjoy the excellent article about coming out as an atheist,

or the one about the Muslim women.

If this is all you saw, then I don't blame you for not hanging around.

Self-fufilling prophecy perhaps?

[LostOne4Ever]

51. If ever there was a poster to ignore it's that one

Last edited Sun Mar 22, 2015, 03:56 PM - Edit history (1)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]This forum is a lot nicer when he is on a 90 day vacation (Which if I am counting right, with two 90 day time outs with him not being here an entire year yet, he has spent nearly half of his time on DU doing just that).[/font]

[cbayer]

4. Those aren't atheists. Those are anti-theists.

They want to destroy all religion because they see all religion as evil.

[stopwastingmymoney]

12. Absolutely

This atheist thinks it's terrible to destroy art and history.

[cbayer]

16. Exactly. It doesn't matter who is doing it.

[gwheezie]

6. I think they're whacked

That's my opinion. I think when you see behavior that doesn't make sense to most people it's because some people are so consumed over one issue that nothing else enters their thinking. It's almost like their life and identity depends on believing this one thing that any dissension is viewed as an attack on their well being. Most people just rant and rave but some just can't tolerate the existence of a thought that contradicts this one belief.
I could be wrong.

[Warpy]

7. I think they're figments of the OP's imagination

That's my opinion.

A link or two might change it but they're not forthcoming so far.

[cbayer]

8. I think he is referring to this statement:

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - This Caliph of ISIS has brought back the horror of the Old Testament. Every day he shows the world the true meaning of religion and what it was created for: To control people's minds and behavior under the threat of death or eternal damnation.

in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218187205

This is classic from this member. He attributes the "true meaning of religion" to the likes of ISIS.

Do you agree with him? If anyone wrote anything remotely similar about atheism, heads would roll.

[haikugal]

10. You must be the interpreter or

is this coequal obscure posting. If the OP wants a discussion, where are they? If not I have to think it's a cheap click bait post being used to passive aggressively flog someone...but really, on DU?

[bvf]

11. Cheap click bait

is a common currency in this group, yes.

[okasha]

14. Yep.

Dead baby posts characteristic of a certain.member are an excellent example. He posted another just today.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Speaking of which:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218187657

There ya go. Dead babies. Caused by ridiculous religious practices.

[cbayer]

19. +1

[cbayer]

18. No, I simply did a search for his recent posts and saw where he was having this discussion.

It's pretty common on DU for people to start new threads when a point is raised in another thread that they want to pursue independently.

But I agree it's a PITA when someone is referencing something that is not obvious.

I guess if people are jumping on it, it's successful click bait and is being rewarded.

[haikugal]

20. So you admit you're on "a mission"....

I don't know what you two are talking about but I do know it doesn't have anything to do with this OP.

Carry on...what ever floats your boat.

[cbayer]

27. Where do I say I am on a mission?

And who do you think I am talking to?


Very confusing post.

[haikugal]

56. You did..

Response to haikugal (Reply #10)Sun Mar 22, 2015, 01:46 AM
Star Member cbayer (142,386 posts)
18. No, I simply did a search for his recent posts and saw where he was having this discussion.

It's pretty common on DU for people to start new threads when a point is raised in another thread that they want to pursue independently.

But I agree it's a PITA when someone is referencing something that is not obvious.

I guess if people are jumping on it, it's successful click bait and is being
-——

Why do you feel the need? Why doesn't the OP reply? Who cares? Does any of this matter?

[cbayer]

57. Say what? There were questions being asked as to where this was coming from.

I was also curious and made an attempt to find out. Apparently a number of people cared, as the question was raised multiple times.

You were, in fact, the very person in the thread to inquire as to what he was talking about.

Why did you feel the need? Why did you care?

As to the OP, I have no idea why he hasn't replied.

[bvf]

13. Are you speaking on behalf of the OP here?

That says a lot.

[cbayer]

15. No, I'm not. Why do you ask?

[bvf]

17. Heh.

[Cartoonist]

22. He makes an absurd assumption.

The beheadings by ISIS are no different than the Christian practice of burning witches. I made no endorsement of destroying historical buildings. The OP is the product of an agenda that has no connection to me.

[cbayer]

28. You said that ISIS represented "the true meaning of religion", which is what triggered this.

And the problem is that you really believe that.

Beheadings and witch burnings are bad and they are bad whether they are done in the name of religion or not.

ISIS has destroyed many historical and religious buildings, and you say they represent "the true meaning of religion". No one said you endorsed that, only that you put it out there as representing religious values (the true meaning).

[Cartoonist]

29. You also assume too much

ISIS is the embodiment of religion. Much of what it does is religion at work. That does not mean that EVERYTHING It does represents religious motivation. Perhaps their destruction of other houses of worship is religiously motivated, I never claimed it was standard religious practice. I certainly never approved of it like the OP implies. That's the poster being absurd. So are you for repeating it.

[cbayer]

30. ISIS is the embodiment of religion?

If by that you means it is the perfect representative or example, then I did not assume anything incorrectly at all.

You have just doubled down on the statement that is being objected to. You have said that ISIS represents the true meaning of religion and now say that it is the embodiment of religion.

As ISIS is as extreme as religion can get, these statements on your part are not just flat out wrong but belie an underlying deep ignorance about religion in general.

If you are going to post such inflammatory statements, you are going to have to expect some pushback.

[Cartoonist]

33. Pushback I don't mind.

Absurdity I object to.
ISIS is ALL religion. It's not politics, economics, or anything else. Try as you and other apologists for religion might, there is no denying it IMHO.

[cbayer]

34. I object to absurdity as well, which is why

I objected to your OP from the outset.

ISIS is very complex, but it is neither the embodiment of religion nor does it represent the true meaning of religion.

Try as you and other apologists for anti-theism might, there is no denying it.

[skepticscott]

39. "Nor does it represent the true meaning of religion"

Since you're making that claim with absolute certainty, then you must know what the "true meaning" of religion actually is.

Please enlighten the rest of us, and provide your evidence in support.

[mr blur]

68. And you know this, how?

"ISIS ... is neither the embodiment of religion nor does it represent the true meaning of religion."

Do you have ways of knowing this not available to others?

Are you not an atheist? How do you know what the true meaning of religion is?

[bvf]

31. Wow.

"Beheadings and witch burnings are bad and they are bad whether they are done in the name of religion or not."

Penetrating observation. What next? "Knowledge is good"?

[cbayer]

32. Knowledge is good. So is the ability to read critically.

But it requires some effort.

Snark, not so much.

[bvf]

35. Pushback.

Using a peashooter against a battleship also qualifies as pushback, right?

[cbayer]

36. I would love to have a substantive discussion with you sometime.

[bvf]

37. No you wouldn't.

[cbayer]

38. You are probably right, but I haven't completely given up yet.

[freshwest]

24. Sounds like you got a good bead on all kinds of behavior to me. Thanks for the input.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Well, I constantly see religious people *doing it*.

So I presume there's some sort of correlation.

I'm an anti-theist, but it's no nevermind to me if there's a building around that has some historical and religious meaning to certain people. I'm certainly not going to destroy it. It's just stuff.

I'm concerned about the preservation and advancement of our species, and that's the battlespace of the mind. Trinkets are of no interest to me. In fact, attacking such material things can often have the effect of raising ire/opposition and strengthening religious groups. Seems counter-productive to me. It's also a handy reference material for the stupid shit we used to believe, as a society. I always advocate learning from your mistakes, instead of repeating them.

[LeftishBrit]

23. I don't understand this

Do you mean that atheists want to destroy churches and mosques themselves, or that they think that religious people want to destroy churches and mosques?

Some extreme members of certain faiths want to destroy the places of worship of other faiths, or sometimes different sects of the same faith, but it is not a typical 'religious value'.

Nor are atheists inclined to burn churches or mosques.

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. It's a strawman taken from another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218187205#post25

OP says: "Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - This Caliph of ISIS has brought back the horror of the Old Testament. Every day he shows the world the true meaning of religion and what it was created for: To control people's minds and behavior under the threat of death or eternal damnation."

Stone space's reply says:

"The true meaning of religion?

Every day he shows the world the true meaning of religion and what it was created for

You mean destroying Churches and Mosques? "

What that poster meant was clear from what came after the colon: "To control people's minds and behavior under the threat of death or eternal damnation." But stone space decided to take one thing the man does, and try to say some atheists (implying that thread starter, or perhaps any atheist who talks to him in the thread) are saying that is a 'religious value'.

[haikugal]

58. Thanks for the clarity...

It's appreciated.

So this OP was used to continue something from elsewhere by someone who didn't think enough of it to stick around but who seems to have others who are willing to argue it for them?! Interesting dynamic.

Atheists don't knock down statues, distroy images or burn witches...only religion does such things...oh, add the burning of the library in Alexandria...atheists don't do such things, only those who want to impose their beliefs on others do things like this.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

69. The OP has also shown himself as someone who doesn't place nice with others

and he was banned from the Atheist & Agnostic group for his behavior. Ever since, he's been flinging a lot of poo at the DU atheists that refused to put up with his childish antics.

[haikugal]

70. Have to love the DU atheist group!

Funny, educated and thoughtful people....they don't put up with it and that makes me happy .

[cbayer]

71. Make sure to check out the Facebook group.

Tell them I sent you and they will send you the secret code.

It's loads of fun - funny, educated and thoughtful!

[haikugal]

72. Thanks for the exposure ...

I'm already there. I don't usually join in posting so even though I have a low post count I signed on here in 2005 under a different name...I've read and learned a lot through the years but until recently I didn't know these 'groups' existed.

[cbayer]

45. See post 8. Whether it is a straw man or not is really a matter of perspective.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. Because some religious groups currently proclaim that this is one of their values.

And if we look back in history we can see that it is in fact quite common for one religion to advocate and practice the extermination and destruction of other religions, their followers, their ritual practices, their buildings, artifacts, monuments, and their sacred texts. So, really, it is simply a fact that this is an aspect of religion.

[Heddi]

41. Other equally compelling arguments you could try

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

I find these to be much more cogent arguments about atheism than whatever it is you're peddling.

[TheBlackAdder]

53. Please provide the decoder ring for your post.

[haikugal]

59. LOL!!!!

Yes indeed!

[AlbertCat]

42. Why do some so-called "atheists"...

..... post in here for flame bait.... instead of posting in the Atheist forum?


I mean, these folks know very little about atheists as people or atheism, judging from what goes on in here.

[cbayer]

43. I guess that is all in your perspective.

I think the Cartoonist thread on unwitting advocates for atheism is complete and total flame bait.

I do agree that there are way too many assumptions made here about what atheists are and are not. There are those who are very rigid in their definition and see anyone that differs from it not as atheist at all.

[skepticscott]

61. Name one atheist here

who has said that someone is not a "true atheist", becaside their definition of "atheist" is too rigid.

We both know you can't, because this is just more made up nonsense from you. On the other hand, lots of people here are dogmatically rigid in their definition of Islam, routinely declaring that what certain Muslims are practicing is not "true" Islam.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. He gote kicked out of the atheist forum

for posting crap like this there. That's why.

[AlbertCat]

48. for posting crap like this there. That's why.

Ahhhh.... a troll looking for controversy.


He's much more at home here.

[AtheistCrusader]

65. Oh, there's a couple of them. Two in just this thread, at least.

[pinto]

46. I can't speak for atheists, theists, agnostics, etc. Won't presume to. In re: ISIS

There seems a growing consensus, reported in various media, that ISIS is promulgating a super extreme apocalyptic "end of times" scenario that posits the wholesale destruction of all faiths and cultures. Apparently in this scenario, 5,000 will be left to be a part of a new world or something. Decidedly marginal and increasingly decidedly violent.

[cbayer]

47. I heard today that they released a hit list of 100 US military personnel.

They are so extreme that using them as an example of what religious is makes me sick.

[pinto]

49. Saw that. Fishing for some random wannabe ISIS supporter to hit an individual or family

who happened to have an accessible name, address, etc. Some statement of faith seems to have little import in this maneuver. I doubt those involved care about that at all.

Fortunately, the hit list if generally available provides some warning to the intended targets.

[pinto]

50. Just heard that folks are being notified for due diligence.

[skepticscott]

62. Still waiting for YOUR description

of "what religion is".

I doubt you can even attempt it, but you're welcome to try to prove me wrong.

[Cleita]

52. I dunno, but I had this experience going to a funeral at a Catholic Church a few years back.

While walking past the flower beds, one bed had a bunch of crosses in it, obviously made by children from popsicle sticks. The sign behind it announced it was a graveyard for all the unborn child who were victims of abortion. Just then and there, I had the urge to dig my high heeled shoes into it and uproot all the crosses and stomp on them. I did restrain myself, but maybe, to true believers, they have the same urge, especially if they have had a family member or friend that they feel was victimized by religion. As for the rest, they probably just are destructive psychopaths and will follow a mob that wants to destroy stuff.

[Cartoonist]

55. I had the same experience

On a previous return to my hometown, I visited the parochial school I attended. They had a section of the lawn filled with tiny crosses. At first I thought it was for the veterans killed in the Iraq War. When I saw it was for the unborn, I was so glad I left that faith.

[haikugal]

60. Kudos on your impulse control...

I've had similar impulses that I successfully controlled, lol.

[HassleCat]

54. Huh?

Are you talking about Soviet style communism or what? Atheists would have no interest in attacking any religion for the sake of atheism. Other motives would have to be involved.

[skepticscott]

63. So were you planning on participating in your own thread?

Or did you just post this to be disruptive, with no intention of having an actual discussion?

[AtheistCrusader]

66. At work, we call this 'crop dusting'.

It happens in the restroom, to similar effect.

[cpwm17]

64. Where are you hanging at?

What atheists want to destroy churches and mosques? I've never seen this. That would be evil.

Why would an atheist have religious values? I value not having religion.

Clearly this is click bait and you're not interested in this discussion.

[mr blur]

67. What the hell are you talking about?

Story? Links?

I appreciate the irony, though, of you talking about 'so-called "atheists"'