I think, I know why the Religious Right dislikes the visit of Pope Francis.

[DetlefK]

He's a religious figure. He's deeply christian. He practically went through a religious vetting-process before being elected Pope. And he has his stances on topics.

The US, a country with a clear opinion on what God REALLY wants and what the Bible REALLY means. Their teachings are the absolute, infallible truth. If you deviate, you are a heretic-socialist-liberal-atheist-satanist Anti-Christ.

And now, Pope Francis comes to the US. A guy with serious christian gravitas and credentials you cannot dismiss. And his teachings are contrary to the teachings of US-Christianity.



The Religious Right hates Pope Francis because he's the inescapable proof and grim reminder that their so-called absolute truths aren't absolute at all.
Where once was clarity, his mere existence has thrown the world into disarray.
The infallible teachings the Religious Right uses to bludgeon everyone into obedience... What if people start doubting that their teachings are infallible? What if people stop fearing the Religious Right?
What happens to the God-given power the Religious Right holds over society?

The Religious Right CANNOT allow the Pope's teachings to become recognized. If they do, people will realize that there are more authorities on religion than the Religious Right.

[dem in texas]

1. If you deviate, you are a heretic-socialist-liberal-atheist-satanist Anti-Christ. Or Worse....

A Democrat!

[rug]

2. Why does the nonreligious left dislike the visit of Pope Francis?

[Fix The Stupid]

6. Because he's a homophobe?

How much $$$ for his security and BS could be better spent elsewhere?

Like on the needy? Or buy life-saving drugs for someone who cannot afford them?

Or is the vatican footing the bill for this visit?

[cleanhippie]

9. And a misogynist.

And a pedophile protector.


All inconvenient truths many would like to see swept under the rug.

[rug]

11. See #10.

Why don't you simply admit you hate him because he leads a religion, instead of making stupid passive-aggressive personal attacks?

[AtheistCrusader]

108. Because we don't.

That last, pathetic shield of yours is wearing thin. Drop the denial. It's not us, its him.

Do you see us bashing on the Buddhists? Do you see us bashing on any faith that is politically compatible or co-habitable with liberalism/progressivism?

No?

Now you see the problem with your premise.

[rug]

131. Are you speking for cleanhippie now?

Or is there some other unnamed plural you're speaking for? Are your thoughts less considerable if you use the singular?

[rug]

10. And if he did none of those things you'd welcome him?

[Fix The Stupid]

12. I can play this game...

Would you 'welcome' Pat Robertson?

Would you 'welcome' Rush Limbaugh?

Why? or why not?

[rug]

13. Good. Then answer the question.

[Fix The Stupid]

14. lol. like clockwork.

[rug]

16. I see you are reluctant to answer the question.

lol. like clockwork.

[Fix The Stupid]

19. Ok.. real slow for you.

You ask in POST#2 this:

"Why does the nonreligious left dislike the visit of Pope Francis?"

I answered with POST# 6:

" Because he's a homophobe?"

See, that reply#6 was an ANSWER to your question in Post# 2.

See that? Try reading it again. Ok, you ready?

I then asked in Post# 3 this:

"How much $$$ for his security and BS could be better spent elsewhere?
Like on the needy? Or buy life-saving drugs for someone who cannot afford them?
Or is the vatican footing the bill for this visit? "

Then you go straight into deflection zone...asking another question without answering any of mine. That is a little rude no?

So, knowing you would act like the awesome christian you are, I started to just ask you questions as well...kind of like you do to everyone else here...

So... back this truck up...answer POST#3 and we'll get back on track. OK?

Thanks

[rug]

21. Ok, r e a l s l o w for you.

10. And if he did none of those things you'd welcome him?

To which you answer:

12. I can play this game...

Would you 'welcome' Pat Robertson?

Would you 'welcome' Rush Limbaugh?

Why? or why not?

Keep at it, it hasn't been fixed.

[Fix The Stupid]

22. Answer post# 6 first.

It was asked of you before you asked me #10...

[rug]

24. "show me yours first"

Idiocy. Yes, I see you are totally into playing games here.

[Fix The Stupid]

28. What idiocy? PLease explain?

[rug]

31. QED

[Fix The Stupid]

32. Whats QED? What are you trying to say here?

[rug]

33. Ditto

[Lordquinton]

47. That's not how QED works

You think for a Lawyer and a Catholic you'd have a better grasp on Latin.

[rug]

51. That would be "you'd think", as long as you're wallowing in the petty.

[Jim__]

25. That clip is better than "who's on first?"

[rug]

29. It cracks me up every time I see it.

[Lordquinton]

27. You skipped a step here, Post #6

Why don't you answer it? I scene another white smoke screen.

[rug]

30. I've haven't seen such dithering in a long time.

I just love free thought and open discourse.

[Lordquinton]

38. It's great, isn't it?

You should participate some time.

Now, about post #6

[rug]

39. No, it's quite stupid.

[Lordquinton]

41. You think free thought and open discourse is stupid?

You rise to Trumpian levels of comebacks, and pretend like you're not the one who's doing the dithering and hiding behind a white smoke screen.

[rug]

42. No, not that I've seen any of it from you.

What is stupid is saying "you first".

What is stupider is deliberate obtuseness as to what is being said.

[Lordquinton]

46. Maybe you should re-read post 19

Cause really, you're the culprit here.

[rug]

48. Let's assume, arguendo, you have an actual point.

What's preventing him - or you - from answering the question? Other than dialogue from Pee Wee's Great Adventure.

[Lordquinton]

52. What's preventing you?

You've had questions answered, but you staunchly refuse to answer anything, that's why you get stonewalled when you ask things, you're reaping what you've sewn. Why do you refuse to answer questions?

[rug]

53. And there you go, PeeWee.

What is so threatening about the question that you spend a dozen posts not answering it?

Is this your version of free thought and open discourse?

[Lordquinton]

54. And you rather break into an abbot and costello routine than answer a question

See, I answered your question in the post you just replied to, and you came back with a dodge, a refusal to answer.

You, dear rug, are the reason no one answers your questions, cause when someone asks you one you ask a question in return and then go into your usual dodging and attacking, claiming that it's everyone else who is the problem, not you.

So, Maybe if you reciprocated once in a while you would get your silly little questions answered, until then don't quit your day job (but maybe practice the latin)

[rug]

55. You're now working on your second dozen.

Yup, I sure see an answer in here:

52. What's preventing you?

You've had questions answered, but you staunchly refuse to answer anything, that's why you get stonewalled when you ask things, you're reaping what you've sewn. Why do you refuse to answer questions?

[Lordquinton]

58. No, that was to yo rug

While you're brushing up your latin, probably follow up with some reading comprehension.

[rug]

59. Oh, stop with the inaninity.

Let me know when you can actually formulate an answer to the question.

In the meantime, this ridiculous little joust has provided all the evidence necessary to determine that answer.

[Lordquinton]

62. Ok, you know what? I did answer it, in post #26

But I'll give a long form that ignores how insulting your question is.

What if the pope Wasn't a bigot who hated LGBTQIA folks and opened up the RCC to equal marriages?

What if he proclaimed that Gay couples should adopt, and traveled the world spending millions on campaigns for that message?

What if the Pope condemned child abuse, stating that no child should ever be struck, on the face or not?

What if the pope enforced birth control, acknowledging the FACT that it reduces poverty and improves life for women world wide as well as reducing the spread of deadly diseases?

What if the Pope endorsed full equality for women, apologizing for the millennial of blame that his, and other churches have heaped upon them, denouncing the story of Eve, and original sin, and allowing them to become priests, bishops, cardinals, and even maybe, one day Popes.

What if the Pope appointed a trans bishop, proclaiming that God doesn't make mistakes, but sometimes he makes a person's life journey harder to test their faith?

What if the Pope denounced Pedophilia in the church, and had every known rapist and enabler tried in the country they are accused of the crime, and proclaiming harsh theological penalties for them, instead of continuing the shell game of moving them to a new parish and letting them continue to rape children?

What if the Pope said that violence is never an answer, and that even if someone insults your faith, you should 'turn the other cheek' and not kill them.

What if the Pope instead of canonizing a Genocidal monster, had the list of saints reviewed and revised to remove such monsters from it's ranks?

What if all that happened you ask? I'd probably drop dead on the spot.

Now, the real question, Why do you still love him knowing that the above, everything I listed, and much much more is ACTUALLY HAPPENING and who he actually is?

[Warren Stupidity]

67. Why bother? He's never going to change. Just talk around him.

[rug]

68. That's a particlarly rational approach.

[Lordquinton]

69. So, what's your answer here?

Your question has been answered in full, now what's stopping you?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

61. Jury results

On Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:22 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

And there you go, PeeWee.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=213160

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Yet another personal attack from rug. PeeWee? While mild compared to the usual attacks, it is still unwarranted, uncalled for, and makes DU suck more.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:31 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Equal contentiousness all around.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I can't tell which of these two is "spitting" further, and so I vote to leave it, to let this pointless back-and-forth continue until one side tires. Good luck.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: THIS is what gets alerted on after a dozen back-and-forth childish taunts? May I suggest you walk away from this schoolyard slap fight and visit another, healthier corner of DU?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Lordquinton]

63. Good, I wouldn't want his voice silenced in this thread. nt

[rug]

66. Thanks for posting.

I think I'll take Juror #5's advice.

[Lordquinton]

70. Juror #5 said walk away

Seems more like you're running.

[rug]

78. There's as much chance of me running from you as there is a monkey writing a sonnet.

[Lordquinton]

84. Prove it.

Why do you refuse to answer?

[rug]

93. "Why do you refuse to answer?"

Tell that to your compadre.

[Lordquinton]

96. Continuing your flock of seagulls impression?

The smoke has cleared rug, and everyone can see your new clothes.

[rug]

99. What fantasy world are you living in?

I understand your compulsive view of the plural noun is a long-standing problem, but this grandiose declaration is an entirely new condition.

[Lordquinton]

103. Wat?

Back to the subject at hand, why are you scared to answer the question?

[Lordquinton]

86. So I have a Monkey here with a typewriter

And he's already got "Something rotten in Denmerk" going, and I see you've got track shoes on.

[rug]

94. It does not surprise me in the least that you have a monkey pecking at your keyboard.

[Starboard Tack]

144. What makes DU suck is people alerting on posts like this

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

147. I don't think it makes DU suck

But it brings into question the judgement of the DUer raising the alert.

[Starboard Tack]

148. Exactly! My response was to the alerter who already thinks DU sucks.

Yet another personal attack from rug. PeeWee? While mild compared to the usual attacks, it is still unwarranted, uncalled for, and makes DU suck more.

Interesting how someone would hang out in a place they think sucks, and then alert on something like that.

[cleanhippie]

49. No no no! He's the VICTIM here.

Don't you see, it's everyone else doing this to HIM, not the other way around.

[rug]

56. Of course, you're the only one who mentioned victim here.

Are you feeling particularly oppressed today, cleanhippie?

[Lordquinton]

15. What a ridiculous question

The real question is why don't you hate him for the things that he actually does, and has said (and that you just confirmed you konw he says and does)?

(Hate is the wrong word here, but it's the word being used in conversation, so I'm rolling with it.)

[rug]

17. The best questions take into consideration the person to whom it is addressed.

As to your question, is it not correct that you despise religion and religious leaders? And that, even without your talking points, you would continue to despise them? If those answers are yes, nothing more than a convenient smoke screen is emanating here.

[Lordquinton]

20. "Talking Points"

How cold do you have to be to reduce the Popes stances and words on abortion, LGBTQ rights, Child abuse and pedophilia to "Talking points"

There is only a white smoke screen here, and wee would appreciate it if didn't hide in it.

[rug]

23. Yes, talking points that minimize the problem when used for another purpose altogether.

Which is why I asked the question no one seems willing to answer.

[Lordquinton]

26. Your question is insulting and reveals far more about you than you think

It's like the "What if hillary were a man" question, you're removing core parts of her and changing her whole identity and public perception.

If the Pope weren't for all that stuff he wouldn't be the pope, Catholic dogma would be different, and we wouldn't have had ta thousand years of Catholic oppression world-wide.

So yea, if he were as you said things would be wildly different and most of us probably wouldn't care.

You have this whole process backwards, You think we're just hate religion, so we bring up all these "talking points" as you so crassly call them, while the truth is that the actions of your pope, your church, the atrocities that it has perpetrated, and still denys/celebrates (Father Sera canonization anyone?) are the reason that your church is "hated"

This is blind animosity, it's well earned.

Now, why do you still love the pope knowing he's a bigoted pedo-protecting, child abuse supporting, evangelical, anti-LGBTQIA, anti-abortion, anti-women person?

[beam me up scottie]

50. "why do you still love the pope knowing he's a bigoted pedo-protecting, child abuse supporting,"

Now, why do you still love the pope knowing he's a bigoted pedo-protecting, child abuse supporting, evangelical, anti-LGBTQIA, anti-abortion, anti-women person?

That is the question of the year, Lordquinton.

Why indeed.

[candyland]

134. Not sure on that one.

I think the pope has already addressed the topic of child abuse within the clergy and denounced it heavily. Am I wrong?

[beam me up scottie]

135. Get back to me when he stops protecting pedophiles.

And opens up the records so that all of them can be found and prosecuted.

[beam me up scottie]

138. The UN has repeatedly criticized the Vatican for this.

[rug]

139. You are correct.

In the two years since he became Pope he has been forceful on this issue, which was long overdue.

The one you're dealing with detests the RCC even in the face of new facts.

[rug]

136. I thought you had no qualms about insulting.

Are yoi now claiming a privilege from insult? Are you offended?

Your mentor said it better.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123046178#post43

And yo're as wrong as he was.

By the way, putting a label of your own on a strawman of your own creation is stupid, dishonest and establishes only a lack of integrity.

[Lordquinton]

145. That's a whole lot of words to say

"I'm too scared to answer your question"

[rug]

150. "You're an idiot" has fewer words. I didn't say that either.

[Lordquinton]

152. Ok, but still no responce?

Why is that Rug? I sense some fear

[rug]

154. You must have other ways of detection.

Or some sort of disorder.

[Lordquinton]

157. Oh, did I miss it? Please direct me to your responce

Or tell me why you're unable to do so.

I mean, you made a huge stink about people not being able to answer you, so now that it's you who is doing exactily what you accused others of doing, you should have a good explanation.

[Angry Dragon]

43. maybe

[rug]

44. That's the best answer.

[AtheistCrusader]

109. If catholic dogma and the people like the pope that promulgate it wasn't inimical to progressive or

democratic political positions, I would ignore the pope as just another self-important mammal. There would be no need, no desire, and no point in actively opposing him.

Welcome, no. Because I don't give a shit about religions that have no impact on my life. But I wouldn't go out of my way to bash it or grapple with it either.

[For Freddie]

35. The Person...

Francis is not a homophobe or sexist. He is placed in an ancient system that is.

He is attempting to change this the only way it CAN be changed. Working everyday to move it along. This system is at the core of all sexism,paternalism and homophobia for centuries in western civilization. It ministers to millions born before 1946. It is a culture of the past. It is ancient.

To advance beyond this will take hard work, great love,patience and a grounded unshakable commitment to get through all the muck piled up in the most rigid institution of western culture. The very core and source of power and male privilege for centuries. He would not be Pope if he had been outspoken in the past. He knows what he is doing.

So... he does what he can and he IS pushing them hard. I know it is not enough for American young people. But change moves slow. Evolution moves slow. I have been working with Civil Rights since I was a kid and they STILL shoot and lynch people.

As to the money spent. I do not know the source of where it comes from. But I DO know our elections are far worse than the Pope's visit for wasting money on bullshit. Our political system is totally wasteful corrupt and callous to those in need. The amounts of money being spent now on the election are beyond ridiculous. The whole system is hurtful to people in need. Cold and calculating. Base on Greed,

So... lets try to fix what is broken here at home,before we piss out our energy criticizing others. For every atrocity and injustice, every waste of resources we see in the world outside our country and culture, our country and culture ALSO does the same. And more.

Just take great comfort that Pope Francis makes Scalia look like the
true vile entity he is, and quite corrupt.
It is good we have these two men to compare. Pope Pius the XII is Scalia's Pope.

Francis is changing the very right wing fascist base by appealing to their young who are pointing out the hypocrazy. This is only a START.
We are not finished yet. Francis is in this for the long haul. We can only judge his work when he has gone. I support every positive step he takes. The rest I will wait to see how it goes.

[Goblinmonger]

36. So why do he say sexist and homophobic things?

If we assume you are correct and it is just the system that sexist and homophobic, then why did he go out of his way to say that gay marriage was from Satan and that letting gay couples adopt is child abuse?

Let's just start with that one, but know that there are more.

And he isn't in this for the long haul. He has already said that he doesn't think he will be Pope for that long. Or at least implied that.

[Lordquinton]

40. Francis was homophobic long before he was Pope

But we're not allowed to talk about it here because it's more than 6...4... 2 months old and he's changed.

[longship]

60. Well, you attempt a good argument. Kudos for that.

And there are things about Francis which are laudable, especially in contrast to his predecessors.

On the other hand, the Catholic Church as an institution does a whole lot of harm. And as the spokesperson of that institution Francis answers to nobody else, but himself.

The extent to which the RCC is a force against women, LBGT, and others civil rights is the extent that I would prefer that his Pope hat not give him a Get out of jail free card. If one is in for a penny, one is in for a dollar.

The extent that Francis does not extend rights to all, is the extent that he extends rights to none. Let's start with women's reproductive rights and the basic right for LBGT to exist. Then, maybe we can go forward.

I am not fooled at all by the Three Card Monty that I see here.

[AtheistCrusader]

110. Fully untrue. He IS, himself, a homophobe.

Well documented.

But I see you didn't bother offering any sources, so I don't have to either.

[Starboard Tack]

71. Most of us do like him. Most of us are not dividers.

And Bernie loves him for all the right reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10154250533127908/

[Goblinmonger]

73. Yeah, you're not a divider

Whatever delusion gets you through the night.

[Starboard Tack]

75. Thanks for proving my point once again

Pope Francis and Bernie Sanders are on the same page. That would be the page regarding our planet and it's survival, feeding the hungry and tempering greed.
Where are you? Still stuck on the Pope bashing page? Still locked into the "Pope's a homophobe " mantra? Still fighting dogma while the ship is sinking?

I'll stick with Frank and Bernie.

[Goblinmonger]

76. About the poor, yes.

Do you think Bernie agrees with Wonderpope about gay marriage? About gay couples adopting? About reproductive rights? About birth control? About abortion?

Rick Santorum wants to raise the minimum wage. Why don't you go start a thread praising him for that in GD.

[Starboard Tack]

80. Why don't you tell Bernie he's on the wrong track?

Expecting the Catholic church to change its stance on gay marriage and reproductive rights is as inane as telling your local golf club to switch to take up tennis.
You, of all people, should know that the RCC is not a prison, but an organization one either belongs to or not. Do you think I care what rules and dogma you guys come up with to protect your cadre of sensitive souls in A&A?

We live on a planet that is dying. Do you think gay marriage in a Catholic church should be a high political priority? You people are so myopic and out of touch with reality, it is truly mind boggling. Good luck dealing with Santorum et al, when you're too busy eating your own.

[Capt. Obvious]

82. .

[Capt. Obvious]

83. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Thu Sep 24, 2015, 11:31 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Why don't you tell Bernie he's on the wrong track?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=213220

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Do you think gay marriage in a Catholic church should be a high political priority?" I know there is all kinds of Pope love right now, but do we seriously want to have the kind of attitude toward the LGBTQ community on this board. Peronally, I don't think we should throw gay marriage under the bus just because this guy thinks there are other problems. Or just because he wants to give the Catholic Church a pass on this.

Please let this poster know that you stand with the LGBTQ community and won't throw them under the bus and hide this nonsense.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Sep 24, 2015, 11:45 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not hide worthy. Alert fail.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: How Starboard hasn't been banned long ago is beyond me.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is an opinion on the Church's stance on Gay rights, nothing more.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Starboard Tack]

85. Thanks. Unbelievable that someone would alert on that.

No way do I think LGBQT rights are not important. I have supported them all my adult life. But we have more urgent issues to deal with, right now. Slamming a popular, and yes, progressive Pope who is talking about the 2 most important things we need to be thinking about, is not the way to move forward.

It is as absurd as the musicians on the Titanic worrying about their instruments being out of tune.

[Goblinmonger]

89. Two things

How is the pope POSSIBLY considered progressive given his stance on women, LGBT, abortion, and other very important items?

I know the musicians on the Titanic is a cool trope and all, but those people knew they were going to die and decided that if they were going to die they were going to die doing what they loved and hopefully make some people feel a bit more comforted in the process. TO ME, that is a wonderful thing to do. Any no musicians worth a shit would play an instrument, even on a sinking ship, that was out of tune. Especially given that they were trying to comfort people.

[Starboard Tack]

102. I didn't say his stance on women and gays was progressive

But in terms of the RCC, he is even progressive in those areas. I wouldn't be holding my breath for any miracles though. When it comes to popes, this guy is light years ahead of his predecessors.

I'm sure he doesn't discriminate when it comes to comforting people on a personal level, but at the end of the day, he is the Pope, a catholic and leader of a church ruled by dogma. I don't share his faith, but I like his style and much of his message. Thankfully, I'm not alone. This guy has accomplished so much in 2 years.
We can still fight for equality. That is an ongoing fight. But the survival of the planet trumps everything.

[AlbertCat]

90. It is an opinion on the Church's stance on Gay rights, nothing more.

Actually Juror #5 is wrong. There is more.

I seem to remember comparing gay marriage to marrying a hamster or a bicycle from this same poster.


This doesn't exist in a vacuum.

[Lordquinton]

88. We know your stance on marriage equality

We can multi task. We can hold the pope accountable for his actions and heal the planet.

If you think that what the RCC says, and does about the LGBTQ community doesn't have an effect on anyone outside the church, then why do you think the Pope's words on climate change will have any affect on anyone outside the church?

[Starboard Tack]

100. Well, let's say it has an effect on those IN the church

That's about 22 million Americans and then there's the other 1.2 billion around the world, then there are those who are not catholic who like and respect the pope for tackling major issues and being a major global voice.
I know it upsets you, but there it is. Deal with it.

[Lordquinton]

104. And how does that not apply to the hate they preach?

You can't have it both ways here.

[Starboard Tack]

105. What hate do they preach?

They have rules which exclude certain people from certain religious rites and privileges. How does that translate into hate.
Why do you hate a Pope who brings people together, who is a uniter, not a divider?
Why are you obsessed with doctrinal issues?

[AtheistCrusader]

112. What a disgusiting equivocation.

The Pope holds/claims that adoption of children by same sex couples is a form of discrimination against children. The Archdiocese of Boston ended up shutting down its entire adoption program (it outsourced for the city) rather than comply with state non-discrimination laws on this point.

In other, catholic-dominated nations, that doctrine translates into legal nationwide prohibition against same sex couples adopting.

And the best part is, you fucking know that, and here you are defending that vile homophobe.


What a uniter you've chosen to champion. A man that would stand between loving, married couples, and adopting a child.

[Starboard Tack]

113. And you call his stance "hate" and "homophobia"

Boy, do you love those words. We can strongly disagree with the RCC on these issues without bringing in such grandiose accusations, but I guess that's par for the course in your black and white world.

Yes, Francis is a uniter, not a divider. Get off your one-horse issue for a moment and check out the reality of what this guy is accomplishing. I dislike his stance on women and same sex marriage, but I applaud him on the vital issues of greed, consumerism and the environment. These are the three major issues facing mankind. I'm with Bernie Sanders on this, every inch of the way, and I'm with Obama. All three are uniters. Nobody is going to please everyone all of the time. It's called finding common ground, but some malcontents always want to piss on a good thing.

[LostOne4Ever]

118. +infinity (nt)

[Starboard Tack]

119. And there I was thinking you'd decided to be nice.

Sorry, I'm not going to talk to you if you are going on one of your "Fuck you" rants.

[AtheistCrusader]

120. What do you expect from us vermin? Eh? Pleasantries and embossed greeting cards?

Sorry if my punctuation and inflection upsets you.


(I'm not sorry)

[Starboard Tack]

121. I expect nothing from you

But there is always room for hope.

[AlbertCat]

124. Post # 117 "A Jury voted 6-1 to hide this post "

Oooooo... don't criticize the Pope... even with his own words!

He's infalible, y'know.


Fortunately, hiding a post nearly guarantees everyone will read it.

[Starboard Tack]

129. I don't think criticising the Pope had anything to do with that hide.

But you already knew that.

Fortunately, hiding a post nearly guarantees everyone will read it.

I know

[AlbertCat]

133. But you already knew that.

Uh.... no.

It does have to do with criticizing the post.


Not everything is about just you.

But I'm glad you think everyone should read how others see you.

[LostOne4Ever]

122. Let me help you with that link

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11080880_1027852060576521_4070216170171798451_n.jpg?oh=bff384677fe5c989feba50e25b3d29f0&oe=56A0EAD9

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Oh, by the way...he never said that.

BUT HE DID SAY THIS:



Totally not a bigot.[/font]

[Starboard Tack]

123. You are correct. Thanks.

I thought I had deleted that post. Done it now.

Regarding what he did say; I completely disagree with him on this, but that is to be expected, as he speaks from his Catholic faith. Nothing surprising there.
Did anyone, or does anyone really expect that to change much? I don't.

So, we can strongly disagree with him on certain issues. What interests me is the common ground, where we can move forward together on issues we all share. He is bringing many millions of religious people into the conversations about climate change, the environment, consumerism, greed, economic socialism, taking care of those less fortunate, and much more.

He's a good guy, not perfect, totally wrong on a couple of social issues, but so right on the paramount issues facing humanity. I don't advocate sharing his religious beliefs, but I do encourage recognizing the positive accomplishments he has made, plus his bold stance against many conservatives, both inside and outside the church.

[LostOne4Ever]

125. His position on climate change

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]is pretty much pointless unless he can also support contraception:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/24/popes-climate-stance-is-nonsense-rejects-population-control-says-top-us-scientist

And it is on more than one or two issues we disagree. Women's rights, LGBTQ rights, contraception, death with dignity, returning insults with violence, free speech (blasphemy), and so on.

That said, I agree that one shouldn't ignore the message when he is right. But, similarly, you can't ignore his bigotry on social issues. That fact that you don't expect change is the very reason we as progressive need to harp on this over and over. Cause the church will NEVER change otherwise.

But, if we expose them for being the bigots they are on the issues of rights, more and more people will become disgusted with them and leave the church. And as this exodus becomes larger and larger it will force the church to change...or die.
[hr]

And no, he is not a good guy. Good guys don't allow church funds to go to fight Marriage equality and deny gay adoption. That hurts people and good guys don't hurt people. Good guys don't condemn birth control and contraception. Again, that hurts people.

He is a human being with the same failings as the rest of us. And being as such, he must be forced to see the pain and suffering he is forcing on others. Only then can change and give penitence for his sins against women, and sexual/gender minorities.

I used to be catholic. I am not anymore. But, I still believe in redemption. I believe, he like any other person can be redeemed, but that won't happen until he sees the error of his way. And therefore, I will continue to call him out on his bigotry over and over again till he and the church change.[/font]

[Starboard Tack]

128. By all means, call him out on those issues

But those issues have nothing to do with the issues where we have common ground.
I do not see him as a bigot

In English the word "bigot" refers to a person whose habitual state of mind includes an obstinate, irrational, or unfair intolerance of ideas, opinions, or beliefs that differ from their own, and intolerance of the people who hold them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

He may hold views which we find abhorrent, but he has a right to hold those views as we have a right to hold our views. We don't have to agree with those views to be tolerant.
I think, from what I have heard him say, that he is tolerant of all views, and we should be the same. Otherwise, we become the bigots.
I don't think he is a homophobe, either. His stand on same sex marriage notwithstanding.
I am tolerant of him in terms of where we differ and would expect the same from him.
Words like "bigotry" and "homophobia" get bandied around all too frequently, by some who do not have a clear understanding of them. Simply put, they both depend on intolerance of others for daring to believe something different.
I find it amazing that some of the most liberal people turn into a frenzied mob when they adopt an intolerant and bigoted stance toward those who think differently.

[AlbertCat]

132. Words like "bigotry" and "homophobia" get bandied around all too frequently...

... by some who do not have a clear understanding of them.


I'm quite sure you clearly understand them.

[Humanist_Activist]

140. Question, are those who are against interracial marriages bigots? n/t

[Starboard Tack]

141. A loaded question

Most are, but some oppose it out of poor logic. The latter may or may not be bigots, but there are some who, imo, misguidedly advise their offspring not to marry inter-racially because of the widespread bigotry that still exists, and which they will be exposed to, in certain parts of the world.
I went through this with my daughter, whom I supported 100%, but other family members were not as supportive for the reasons I mentioned. I might add that she is very happily married to a Pakistani Muslim, who has been embraced and is loved by all family members, including the born again evangelicals.
Go figure.

[Humanist_Activist]

142. My fault, I wasn't clearer, though I don't understand how poor logic or ignorance is an excuse...

for bigotry, but whatever.

However, to make it clearer, are those who want to outlaw interracial marriage bigots?

[Starboard Tack]

143. Yes. Who are they, btw?

[Lordquinton]

146. Do you actually read what you write?

You're saying that someone who believes marriage equality is the work of the devil isn't actually intolerant of it?

Birds of a feather, I suppose...

[Starboard Tack]

149. No, I am not saying that

You may be a ventriloquist, but I'm no dummy.

I'm saying that no matter what one believes, it is not bigotry as long as one is tolerant of the beliefs of others. Not actions, beliefs.
The Pope's actions, as an individual, have shown him to be tolerant of all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender.
That does not mean he is going to change church doctrine overnight. Even this Pope would have difficulty doing that. Don't be expecting same sex marriage in a Catholic church any time soon, or the ordination of women as priests. It's their club and they make the rules. If they interfere with women's healthcare in the public sector, then they should be confronted. But it doesn't make the Pope a bigot or a homophobe. Hell, he's the Pope. Do you think he cares that many priests are gay? There definitely could be some hypocrisy going on, but we're all guilty of that, from time to time.

[Lordquinton]

153. "Look, Just because he says he hates gays

And is the head of a global organization that hates gays, and lobbys to remove rights for gays, and goes in front of congress and says that they should hate gays too, doesn't mean he really hates gays"

If they interfere with women's healthcare in the public sector, then they should be confronted

Tacky, they are interfering with women's healthcare in the public sector, why aren't you confronting them? Why are you working overtime to excuse homophobia and hate, rather than working against it?

[Starboard Tack]

155. Except he never said that

Putting words into other people's mouths is sick.

[Lordquinton]

156. No, I was paraphrasing you

Not the Pope. The pope put it in very eloquent wording, and in a different language, but that whole "Father of Lies" thing, and the whole "Gay adoption is child abuse" thing are straight out of his mouth, "Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family." was his exact words.

Defending a homophobic bigot is sick.

[Starboard Tack]

158. No you weren't paraphrasing me

You were spewing nonsense and twisting the truth. That's what you do, and it is how you marginalize yourself. Extremism promotes bigotry. Good luck with that.
Francis is an inclusionist, not a bigot. You and your buddies at VNN might want to follow his example and live by the "Golden Rule".

[Lordquinton]

159. The pope is a rather extreme fellow, isn't he?

H's a bigot, we even had a pole here and it was a landslid that he was a bigot.

You really need to check what you classify as bigotry.

I will never follow the example of someone who not only promotes child abuse, but gives instructions on how to do it and not get caught. Remember that?

"One time, I heard a father in a meeting with married couples say 'I sometimes have to smack my children a bit, but never in the face so as to not humiliate them,'" Francis said.

"How beautiful!" he added. "He knows the sense of dignity! He has to punish them but does it justly and moves on."

That the kind of person we should be looking up to? Beating children is beautiful?

[Starboard Tack]

160. No, he is not extreme. Just the opposite, in fact.

Where is this "pole" you talk about that was such a "landslid"?
You provide no links, as usual, just your theophobic drivel.

H's a bigot, we even had a pole here and it was a landslid that he was a bigot.

You are a real beaut. I'm sure the "we" you refer to are really proud to have you on the team.
You might want to stick to smilies. They work better for you.

[beam me up scottie]

91. Why don't you? I mean your previous comments about ssm make you credible, right?

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
112. And this has what to do with the RCC?

Why would any couple want to marry in a church that doesn't accept them? Makes no sense.
You really look for extreme situations to provide fodder for your hatred of religion. How about if I wanted to marry my bicycle, or my hamster and some church opposed performing the ceremony, would you be there, fighting for my rights?

I'm sorry, but religious rights and gay rights are not the same thing. I support both. Seems like you only support one. I know many gay couples, some who married in church and some at town hall and some couldn't care less about the institution of marriage.

I think your views are self centered. You want the world to adapt to your values, like the vegan who wants everyone to quit eating meat. What a boring world that would be.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123723

Starboard Tack This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

176. Really? And how exactly did I do that?

You seem to confuse marriage and sexuality. The first is about a ceremonial binding of two entities. The second is about sex.
Who are you to tell me I cannot marry my dog, or my brother, or my mother, or my fucking bicycle, if I so wish. You don't get to decide these things. Sorry to disappoint you.

A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:12 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124676

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
177. No, I am not equating it with anything.

We should all have the right to marry whomever or whatever, provided it is consensual and conducted of sound mind.
Do you have a problem with sisters marrying each other? I don't. How about other family members? Do you draw lines and, if so, why?

My point, as I'm sure you are already aware, was about seeking approval from the RCC or any other church, to get married. That approval comes from within one's own conscience. Official approval comes from the state. Fuck the church and fuck those who want to paint me as an enemy of equal rights. Fuck the bigots and bullies and nasty hate mongering anti-theists. Fuck all fascists.

Happy Easter!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124679

And you added yet another right wing talking point to your collection:

Do you think gay marriage in a Catholic church should be a high political priority?

Lgbt people don't want to be married in the Catholic Church, they want the RCC to stop interfering in their civil rights.


What a piece of work you are.

[Starboard Tack]

101. What would I do without my favorite supporter

Love you BMUS

Keep up the good work

[rug]

81. Agreed. This subthread illustrates perfectly what the problem is.

[Lordquinton]

87. So, about that question you're running away from?

It really summed up what the problem is.

[rug]

92. QED

[Lordquinton]

97. You just said the solution to the problem in this thread is the pope and church

Are stepped in bigotry.

And you still refuse to answer, very telling.

[rug]

98. And you just said what fell out of your head without evidence.

[AtheistCrusader]

111. something something vermin something 'most of us are not dividers' lol.

[Starboard Tack]

114. Very true!

Which are you?

[AtheistCrusader]

115. Vermin, it seems. How are you today?

[Starboard Tack]

116. Wonderful, thanks

Now you're being nice to me, and it isn't even 2016 yet.
I've been dealing with dormice in my roof, not very successfully I might add. It's funny, after a while one gets used to them, and then one actually starts to like them. The ancient Romans used to eat them and, apparently, they are still considered a delicacy in Slovenia.

[dorkzilla]

77. I’m an atheist lefty and I LOVE this man.

He has a lot of work to do, but he’s off in the right direction. He’s only been Pope 2 years. Give him a chance.

[underpants]

3. Right wing hate groups have hated all Popes for years

The RW propaganda machine has sifted it's stance and erased their history.

[roody]

4. Evangelicals do not believe that Catholics

are Christians.

[trusty elf]

5. .........

https://soundcloud.com/never-odd-or-even/cathy-lick-churches-1

[xfundy]

7. I know that lady!

It's Mrs Judy O'Christian from Landover Baptist.

[trusty elf]

37. Is it really?

I was wondering where she came from! I'm glad to know it's a parody, 'cuz it's mighty creepy!

[AlbertCat]

95. The Death Cookie!!!!!!

https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp


Why is Mary Crying?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp


Are Roman Catholics Christians?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp


Last Rites

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0082/0082_01.asp


Is There Another Christ?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0047/0047_01.asp

[Act_of_Reparation]

8. Nope.

Many of the Christian sects that emerged from the Second Great Awakening exhibit a deep dislike for the Catholic Church that has its roots in the violence of the Protestant Reformation and was amplified by the uniquely American suspicion of all things European. Right-wing Christians don't hate Pope Francis. They hate all Popes, and not because of their politics.

[Goblinmonger]

18. Well, they do love his bigoted views on gays

and women and abortion and birth control and a whole lot of other things.

I mean, yeah, he's cool with helping the poor and all, but gay marriage is still the end of society as we know it and having a gay couple adopt a child is child abuse, so, you know, fuck him.

[WDIM]

34. One cannot be a Republican and truly follow the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus taught to take care of the poor. To feed the hungry and the needy. To invite strangers into your home and give them food and comfort. Republicans teach that the poor are a drain on society and we should not feed or house the poor.

Jesus taught to love your enemy to not seek venegence in an eye for an eye but to turn the other cheek. The only answer is love and nonviolence. Republicans believe we should bomb any country that steps out of line. Their first response is always war and vengence.

Jesus taught to forgive debt. To give expecting nothing in return. Republicans believe in debt slavery to put people and countries in so much debt that the owners of these debts can live off the hard work of their debt slaves.

The problem with Christianity in this country, churches rarely teach what Jesus taught. instead they focus on the birth and death of Jesus which is irrelevant compared to what he taught, and they focus on the old testament and jump all over the bible to try to make their points.

[Angry Dragon]

45. they say Jesus was a jewish socialist

they call Bernie a jewish socialist
if the Christian right really followed Jesus they would all vote for Bernie

[Warren Stupidity]

72. Sure you can.

Your interpretation of "jesus said" is no more valid than any other. You all cherry pick and reinterpret as you see fit in order to wedge your jesus into whatever suit you want him to wear, and then proudly proclaim that to be the true suit of jesus and point fingers at others and denounce their jesus as being butt ass naked.

[trotsky]

57. The left has "absolute truths" that Pope Frank rejects as well.

And I, being part of the left, would sure as fuck not like to see the pope's teachings about disease, mental illness, contraception, gender equality (and identity), LGBTQ rights, etc. become recognized as anything but the antiquated, codified hate borne of centuries-old ignorance that they are.

[Shrike47]

64. They hate the Pope because he talks about caring for the poor. They love money. Their hypocrisy

is so much more obvious. They worship Mammon but pretend to themselves that they don't and he makes the pretense more obvious.

[trotsky]

65. The pope also talks about marriage quality being "from Satan,"

how contraception and birth control are horrible sins, and how gender theory is akin to Naziism.

We liberals love equality and reproductive rights. Does what he says about those things bother you? Should they?

[LostOne4Ever]

74. Expect crickets in response to your question they never respond when that is pointed out nt

[Goblinmonger]

79. You forget it's because he's Catholic

The religious right has A LOT of hate for Catholics. Don't underestimate that bigotry.

[AtheistCrusader]

107. Oh please. Pope francis is just another mammal.

One with the ears of a rather large audience, even beyond just catholics for some odd reason, and he uses that venue to preach against abortion, same sex marriage, you name it.

Fuck that guy.

[libodem]

126. .

[img][/img]

[Faux pas]

127. Oh Bravo!

[Agnosticsherbet]

130. Protestants have bent in conflict with catholicism for

Centuries. In disagreeing with Political Protestant dogma, he is reigniting Old religous animosities.

[Zen Democrat]

151. The Pope's visit is very good for the USA.

He's one of the good guys, no matter what you think of the Catholic Church writ large. The Church and The World Meeting of Families is paying for this. The Pope has arrived as a head of state. The security supplied by the Secret Service, FBI, NYPD et al, is overloading on security. There may have been threats.