Can Atheists Learn Anything from the Religious?

[rug]

October 20, 2015
by Neil Carter

Fellow atheists give me a hard time because I talk a lot about fostering constructive dialogue between ourselves and people on the other side of the aisle, so to speak. They protest and ask, “What good can come of maintaining conversation with people who believe nonsense?” I understand where they’re coming from, but my feelings on the matter are different for at least a couple of reasons.

I’ve explained many times before that one major reason I keep trying to engage in these conversations (rather than simply burning those bridges and telling them all that they’ve been collectively duped) is that I still have too many precious relationships that would be damaged by the slash-and-burn approach of so many anti-theists to whom I am connected. Most of my friends who want me to cut the crap and start truly ripping away at the foundations of religious belief don’t have many close friends or family remaining who would be lost over such an approach. Most likely those bridges have already been burned for them so there’s nothing left to lose. I am not in such a position.

But there’s another reason why I don’t take the same posture toward religions of all stripes and strains, and it has to do with being wary of the overconfidence I see in my fellow atheists when it comes to the proper use of reason, science, and perhaps ultimately technology as well. For all of the sharp disagreements and logical departures I encounter when I discuss important matters of belief with my religious friends, I remain convinced that I gain something from these interchanges which cannot so easily be found without attempting this admittedly maddening process.

Despite our differences, my religious friends often remind me that we don’t know everything, and that there’s great value in maintaining at least a modicum of epistemic humility while we search for answers to our biggest questions.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2015/10/20/can-atheists-learn-anything-from-the-religious/

[jonno99]

1. Interesting discussion in comments. Thanks for the post. nt

[Fumesucker]

2. Some places Mr Carter would be in danger of his life if he were to engage in the dialogue he seeks

Of course though it's the atheists who are once again the problem with their slashing and their burning.

[edhopper]

3. whole lot of strawmen

going on there. youbetcha.

[yodermon]

4. "epistemic humility" is embedded in the scientific method.

from the article:

Sometimes scientism just means we become overconfident about what we discover, or think we’ve discovered. Anybody remember last year when we thought we had detected the primordial ripples in the fabric of the universe, definitively proving the rapid inflation model of the Big Bang within a ridiculously small margin of error? It was learned soon after that what the BICEP2 program had encountered was interference created by dust within our own galaxy. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

YES! That's the POINT of science! Self-correcting, always improving upon itself, always expanding what we know to be true. If "scientism" means being overly enamored of a particular theory, only become distraught and defensive when that theory is disproven, then YES! The scientific method, when practiced properly and dispassionately , is the cure for scientism.

But gaps are there, to be sure. And even if one day we will have a better understanding of the universe, we don’t have it yet. And as long as we don’t, we should remain aware of the limitations of our own knowledge. I think it would do us some good to adopt for ourselves a little bit of the humility we observe among the more intellectually responsible of our theistic friends.

The limitations of our knowledge is exactly what provides the impetus to keep searching. Humility means overturning what we thought was true with wherever the evidence leads. Saying "well, we just don't know, God must have done it" (or variations thereof) doesn't lead to further inquiry, it STIFLES it.

If pressed, I could suggest a few more things which I hear about from my Christian friends which I think could be a useful contribution to the larger conversation. Perhaps that conversation could be expanded upon at a later date, but off the top of my head I could name a few things:
◾The importance of passing ideas on to children, and taking the time to make that a priority.
◾The value of intentional community, regular gatherings, and organized activities.
◾The value of family, perhaps enriched even more by those who sacrifice professional goals to focus on the care of the children.
◾Warning against the dangers of materialism and greed (depending on which kind of preacher they’ve got, of course!)
◾Learning to unplug sometimes from the world of electronics just long enough to remember what it’s like to be a living thing.

These things are wonderful of course, but the idea that theists have some sort of claim on these things, or that we must "learn" from them is patronizing and offensive in the extreme.

[cleanhippie]

5. You're right, of course. This is just another attempt by the religious to bring non-believers down

To their level. And it fails miserably. Agiain.

[rug]

6. The author is an atheist. Why would he do that?

Failed miserably. Again.

[Yorktown]

7. Besides, I'd love to see 'epistemic humility' applied to the Bible/Quran stories

Who was the Pharaoh of Moses? Traces of the great flood?

Where did Adam and Eve make landfall on Earth and in which millenium?

Who did Adam and Eve's children mate with? Why was Gabriel hiding from muhamad's tribe?


Religious epistemic humility. Indeed..