Are we ready to face death without religion?

[rug]

A rise in atheist funerals shows that fewer of us need to rely on faith when confronted with mortality

Adam Lee
Sunday 13 March 2016 07.00 EDT
Last modified on Thursday 17 March 2016 08.25 EDT

For centuries, the Christian church wrote the script for how westerners deal with death. There was the deathbed confession, the last rites, the pallbearers, the obligatory altar call, the burial ceremony, the stone, the angels-and-harps imagery. Yet that archaic and stereotypical vision of death, like a mossy and weather-worn statue, is crumbling – and in its place, something new and better has a chance to grow.

Traditional funerals and burials are declining in popularity (to the point where churches are bemoaning the trend), in favor of alternatives like green burial and cremation. Personalized humanist funerals and secular celebrants are becoming more common, echoing a trend that’s also occurring with weddings.

As younger generations turn away from religion, the US is slowly but surely becoming more secular. As mortician and “good death” advocate Caitlin Doughty writes in her book, Smoke Gets In Your Eyes & Other Lessons from the Crematory, America is seeing a sea-change in traditions and rituals surrounding mortality.

Doughty and others see this shift not as something to be lamented, but to be embraced. Instead of following a script that’s been written for us, we can create our own customs and choose for ourselves how we want to be remembered. We can design funerals that emphasize the good we did, the moments that made our lives meaningful and the lessons we’d like to pass on.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/13/are-we-ready-to-confront-death-without-religion

[trotsky]

1. Newsflash: "We" (meaning humanity) have been doing it for millenia. n/t

[hrmjustin]

2. I can accept that there is nothing after death but I have hope there is much more.

[rug]

3. And hope for something after death takes nothing away from living a good life.

[hrmjustin]

4. Absolutely! My faith does not stop me from living life to the fullest.

[skepticscott]

12. And you know that

How?

How do you know your life hasn't been horribly limited from what it could have been because of the religious bubble you're enjoying?

[hrmjustin]

13. Fair question.

All I can say is that I don't feel my faith has stopped me from doing anything I wanted to do.

[skepticscott]

14. Since your faith could be limiting what you feel

without you being able to tell, that's utterly meaningless.

[hrmjustin]

15. Oh ok.

[skepticscott]

16. And I assume now that you're back a month and a half early

You'll be apologizing to all of those people? That would certainly be the nice thing to do, since you can't possibly have meant all of the things you said.

[hrmjustin]

17. I apologize for saying them.

[skepticscott]

19. It's not me you need to apologize to

It's all those people you told to fuck off and go to hell (among other things). That was pretty harsh, don't you agree?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=281267&sub=trans

I figured you might actually want to thank me for getting people to pray for you after you went apeshit and got seven hides in one day. I did end up getting a ban for my efforts, after all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1225866

[hrmjustin]

21. And you got a timeout.

[skepticscott]

22. Yes...even more reason

for you to thank me for my sacrifice on your behalf.

[hrmjustin]

23. No doubt you always had my best interest at heart Scott!

[skepticscott]

24. And didn't you say

that you were "so fucking done with this site"?

I think that's an accurate quote. That you're back in spite of that is a bit concerning too.

[hrmjustin]

26. I said it in anger Scott.

[hrmjustin]

28. If it gets too much I will let you know.

[skepticscott]

31. You won't have to

Your transparency page says it all.

[hrmjustin]

33. No doubt it will be the topic of conversation among some here.

[LiberalArkie]

37. Results

On Thu Mar 17, 2016, 11:55 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

It's not me you need to apologize to
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=224931

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is blatant trolling.

Please hide.


You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 17, 2016, 12:03 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Sounds like skeptiscott has resumed trolling hrmjustin.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It seemed okay, although it would have helped if I could have navigated to the two links referenced. Unfortunately, the fact that DU prevents you from going to any DU link while on the jury . It would have helped in this case.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Just part of the relentless back-and-forth nonsense we have now. Nothing exceptional here.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think it is more of a dispute between the two of them.... and they should probably take it outside.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: .?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[skepticscott]

11. Unless some religiously deluded parents

slaughter their children because they think they are sending them to a better place. Or unless religious wackos commit suicide and take innocent people with them, because of the promise of "paradise".

Other than that, it takes nothing away, you're right.

[rug]

18. RELIGION CAUSED 9/11 !!!!1!!!

RELIGIOUS MOTHERS KILL THEIR CHILDREN!!!!1!1!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1135

[skepticscott]

20. Both true

Despite your lack of equilibrium with punctuation.

Apparently you gained some enlightenment during your enforced vacation.

[rug]

25. Prove it, scottie.

Your claim.

Guess you won't hve to worry any more either.

[skepticscott]

30. Not about you, no

http://abc7ny.com/news/mother-charged-with-murder-says-2-kids-were-sent-to-heaven-/777262/

Among many others. But go ahead and move the goalposts..it's what you do, and I need an intellectual piñata today.

As far as 9-11, I'll just let your denial hang it there like a big dick in the wind. Though I'm sure you'll have fellow apologists along to Google-fu that 9-11 had nothing to do with religion or paradise, nor did any of the other suicide murders by Muslim terrorists.

[rug]

35. Pretty thin evidence - again - for such sweeping claims.

I'm sure yo'll receive positive responses in CS and another Group.

[skepticscott]

40. You're not worth any more effort

But thank you for living up to my prediction.

[rug]

41. Lol.

[AlbertCat]

36. Prove it, scottie.

Well, your god did/does nothing about it.... or anything else for that matter.

So I'll take "religious delusions" for 1000 Alex.

[rug]

42. That's not even logical.

Assuming a god exists, failure to act is not causing an act.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. People with the maturity of 4 year olds aren't.

Adults ought to at least accept the very real probability that religion is a bunch of ridiculous nonsense, that this is it, your life, make it meaningful to you.

[rug]

6. I take it you haven't seen a five year old confront the death of a parent.

Or a fifty year old the death of a child.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. As usual your "takes" are self serving bullshit.

[rug]

8. Tsk, tsk.

I take it it that, in your usual chest-thumping declamation, you don't realize that "maturity" has little to do with death.

[AtheistCrusader]

43. How a natural, un-indoctrinated-into-religion child deals with death is a thing to behold.

It really is. Not to be hoped for, but when it happens, it's something you'll in the end be glad you didn't miss in the noise. Hell, even how they deal with something like a dog dying.

To see a child, comfort an adult, in real terms, without making bullshit up.

The sort of thing that gives me hope for humanity.

[procon]

9. I'll be the 3rd generation in my family to have a funeral free of religion.

It stresses the funeral staff. Our fundie relatives are aghast. But our immediate family is content with a quick eulogy or two, the private "planting" of the ashes, followed by a righteous party with lots of food and good remembrances of the deceased.

[rug]

10. Have the younger children and relatives taken it in stride, all things considered?

[procon]

38. Yes, it seems so.

You need to understand that my family views religion as unimportant. Its neither good nor bad, it just exists as am occasional topic of mild curiosity... like a chupacabra sighting. Its not as if we disrespect others in our extended family who feel the need for religion, at least not to their faces, but it simply holds no significant importance in our lives.

Little kids are naturally curious, but they aren't great philosophers and can't do deep analytical thinking, so usually a little logic based information is sufficient until they reach the mental capacity to rationally and intellectually explore the philosophies of the world's religions.

Now, we do have a passel of cousins who run their own fundie church -- and they make quite a good living at it -- and they live for their church. At family gatherings they all appear to be motivated by religious belief in their every cognizant thought. We put up with the expected head shaking and tut-tuting over our lack of religious fervor, pass the pie, and endure the repetitive threats to pray for our lost souls, etc., more coffee, how's your arthritis these days? They just can't even conceive that a person can be free of religion and have no regrets or concerns about the fictions of heaven or hell, or feel compelled by scary taboos or traditions of fear when it comes to accepting the norms of life and death.

[rug]

39. Religion is but one response to death.

Palpable, inexorable absence is a life-changing event which neither religion nor reason adequately addresses.

[AtheistCrusader]

44. Speak for the domain you have experience in.

Reason is more than adequate for me.

[rug]

45. I just did.

[Else You Are Mad]

29. Funerals are for the living...

..Not the dead. Personally, I grew up Catholic -- and went through 16 years of Catholic education (the last 4 by choice). That said, I am personally agnostic, but I would opt for a religious funeral. The reason being, a majority of my family is religious & it would be more comforting for them if it was done in the Catholic tradition. In the end, my funeral is not fully my own, but for those that are grieving & I do not feel it is time to deviate from their traditions and substitute my own non-religious feelings in their time of loss and pain.

That being said, lets hope that my funeral is a long time away

[rug]

32. Ad multos annos!

[Else You Are Mad]

34. I'll drink to that. :)

[Albertoo]

46. Why keep 'facing death' with superstition?

Religion has nothing to show for itself: no one ever proved believing in this or that god made people better. Its only 'benefit' is to offer hope on the deathbed.

But while there is absolutely no proof that this hope has any merit, the ill effects of that unfounded promise are widespread: how many kids terrorized by the specter of an invented hell? How many inhumane decisions made by people whose hearts were hardened by the promise of paradise? ISIS is a tangible evil spawned by religion, while the deathbed hope is an immaterial speculation. Which some would call a pipe dream.

Isn't it more dignified to take death as it is, a probably definitive dislocation of the molecules we were made of, with probably no prospect of ever having our conscience re-embodied (where, when the universe reaches heat death?) in a hypothetical dreamland with rivers of milk and wine?