What does your religion mean to queers?

[trotsky]

http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/what-does-your-religion-mean-to-queers-20160630-gpvlxu.html

In the wake of the horrific Orlando shootings, I saw a lot of my queer friends on social media - hurting, confused and scared - declare that they hate religion. Now, there was a lot of Islamophobic sentiment flying around at the same time and probably a few of these people were driven by that motivation too, which I don't support, but what struck me was a general hostility towards the concept of religion in general, rather than a specific practice. And while I know that it's probably going to hurt a lot of religious people's feelings, this isn't an unjustified feeling.

...

Now, I'm completely and utterly aware that "religion" is too large a beast to generalise about, and that the majority of truly torrid hate speech is coming from small, unrepresentative fringe groups - but the fact is that religious people and religious culture and religious politicians and political parties do have a say in how queer people live their life in this country, and their voices and views are contributing to our current unequal and homophobic culture. It's hard not to take that personally.

...

In theory, I understand all the positive aspects of religions - community, charity, personal and spiritual peace - and I know that for every Scott Morrison, there is a Christian campaigning to improve the rights of LGBTQI people. It's not a binary, or a harsh black and white dichotomy of goodies and baddies, of right or wrong. I don't think less of religious people, despite not understanding their motivations. I'd be perfectly happy for religions to thrive, as long as I had nothing to do with them.

Yet religion doesn't exist in isolation. Religions seem unable to stop reaching out and meddling in other people's lives, crusading across the world, converting via missionaries, campaigning for expensive plebiscites that will cost the entire nation. It seems religion likes to turn queer people into a problem, whereas we'd be happy to just be left alone, and given equal rights at a stretch. For us, religion has made it personal. For a lot of these people, if religion disappeared from the earth, their life would only improve, often immeasurably.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. My UU church is welcoming...

as was my Quaker meeting. Both have interracial gay couples as members. And, as Peace Churches, both spend a lot more time preaching about how we treat each other than about doctrine.

Too bad the hate churches get all the press.

[Act_of_Reparation]

4. "Too bad the hate churches get all the press"

And all of the members, apparently.

How many souls can UU claim? Not even a million, worldwide?

[trotsky]

5. Closer to half a million.

Hard to understand why they don't get more press, huh?

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. What???

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of 1.27 billion Catholics.

[kwassa]

8. many Catholics are liberals, too.

No monolith there.

[cleanhippie]

9. Except when it comes to protecting their church.

No monolith, but plenty of pederasty. And cover-ups. And misogyny. And...

[kwassa]

11. and over-simplification by some of those that hate all religion.

The actual rate of molestation is about the same as any other church, and many other non-religious organizations. The Catholic church did a much worse job of handling it, by far, and deserves the condemnation for that, and the lawsuits, etc ..... sexual abuse of minors happens in many different organizations.

[cleanhippie]

12. I fail to see your point.

You did have one, right?

[kwassa]

18. It must have been too obvious for you to see.

Your characterization of the Catholic church is false.

Clear enough?

[cleanhippie]

23. Only if one ignores the facts.

They just get in the way, don't they?

And as you claim below, no one ever said pedersty, cover-ups and misogyny were the totality of the Catholic Church, I said there was plenty of it.

Again, facts just get in the way, don't they.

[cleanhippie]

34. So you've run away. No surprise there.

Now you'll respond with something totally off-topic. Please proceed.

[trotsky]

16. ONCE AGAIN FOR THOSE NOT PAYING ATTENTION

It's not about the "rate of molestation." It never was, so why encourage that falsehood, kwassa? It's always been about the coverup, the blaming of children, the transferring of abusive priests to new locations with access to fresh victims with unsuspecting families, and the built-in attitude that the church and its priests and hierarchy are above the law. THIS SHIT CONTINUES TO THIS DAY in that horrible church, and makes it TOTALLY UNIQUE with regards to incidents of child abuse in other organizations.

[kwassa]

19. Not totally unique.

Just off the top of my head, Joe Paterno and the Penn State football and college administration did a very similar thing. No religion involved, other than football.

edit to add:

The Boy Scouts of America has announced it will review more than a half-century of its confidential files on alleged sexual predators and will inform law enforcement of any cases it had not previously disclosed.

The unprecedented review will examine about 5,000 cases dating from the 1950s to the present in which Scouting employees or volunteers were suspected of molesting children and were expelled from the organization, officials said.

The announcement came nine days after The Times published an investigation that found Scouting officials did not report to police hundreds of cases of alleged sexual abuse between 1970 and 1991, allowing many suspected predators to resign quietly or under false pretenses. The findings were based on a review of 1,600 files entered into evidence in a 1992 court case.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-boy-scouts-20120927-story.html

[trotsky]

20. Not even fucking close, kwassa. You're dreaming.

Penn State was nowhere NEAR the scope and damage of the RCC. AND the perps were caught and prosecuted. Sandusky's in jail. Where's Bernard Law, kwassa? Hmm?

BSA, sure, let's go there. Another religion-saturated organization. Yeah! At least the BSA kicked the abusers OUT instead of protecting, them transferring them, giving cushy retirement to them. NOT EVEN CLOSE. You should really be ashamed trying to excuse the outrageous crimes of the RCC, kwassa. Have you no sense of decency?

[kwassa]

21. who is trying to excuse crimes? Not me.

I am merely pointing out the false characterization of the totality of the Catholic church.

but you go on with your rant if it makes you feel better.

[trotsky]

24. So you're responding to your own strawman with another.

Awesome. Keep it up.

[cleanhippie]

28. Since no one said that's the "totality" of the Catholic Church, just what part do you disagree with?

I know, those pesky facts again. amirite?

[trotsky]

35. C'mon, cleanhippie.

It's so much easier - WAY less thinking involved - to simply proclaim any critic of religious homophobia as "hating ALL religion." Done!

[Lordquinton]

36. It's all or nothing with some people

Makes discussion difficult.

[Act_of_Reparation]

14. And many aren't.

Any chance you'll be arriving at some kind of point anytime soon?

[edhopper]

2. Nothing like

having God endorse your homophobia and condone mistreatment and violence for them.

[redstatebluegirl]

3. Our UU Church has always been a welcoming place.

We were both raised in hate filled churches, where gays and trans people were hated and not at all welcome. One of the MANY things that brought us to the UU Church was how they embrace everyone, and all the world religions are taught, not just one way.

We don't get much press but I think our Church is awesome!

[Lordquinton]

7. Two UU evangels in one thread

a record!

[kwassa]

10. This blog post is unhistorical.

It seems religion likes to turn queer people into a problem,

Homosexuality hasn't been acceptable in most cultures in the world for thousands of years. It is only within the past 50 years that it has begun to be acceptable in the West. Religion is not currently creating a new culture of homophobia where none existed before, which is what this post seems to indicate.

The larger question is whether religion is a product of the culture, or the culture the product of religion? Or, are they inextricably interwoven? Where exactly does the homophobia come from?

and, yes, I've said this here many times before that most of the gay people I know are Episcopal clergy. I am now on the third round of gay priests and their married partners at my church.

[trotsky]

15. Well at least your personal experience trumps everyone else's.

Thank goodness.

[kwassa]

22. You missed the point of my post, or just avoided it.

but this is pretty typical of you.

[trotsky]

25. No, I got your point just fine.

And responded exactly the way I wanted to. You just responded with your typical snark and oh-so-Christian behavior.

[hrmjustin]

13. My church has been very welcoming to me and my fellow LGBT Christians.

Can't say all Anglicans/Episcopalians are welcoming but my parish and diocese is very welcoming.

I am proud to be Gay, Christian, and Episcopalian.

[cleanhippie]

29. Unfortunately, yours is one of few exceptions.

Most are anything but welcoming. You know, because God says so.

[hrmjustin]

30. Actually my experience in NYC is that more churches are becoming inclusive.

[cleanhippie]

31. Again, your experience is one of few exceptions.

Nothing new there.

[hrmjustin]

32. Well NYC is a different experience than the rest of the country and world so point taken.

[NeoGreen]

17. Very Welcoming & Supportive:

http://www.buffalonews.com/20130322/unitarians_to_celebrate_music_director_barbara_wagner.html

Unitarians to celebrate music director Barbara Wagner
By Mary Kunz Goldman | News Staff Reporter
March 22, 2013 - 8:05 AM

Bach’s “Magnificat,” rich with trumpets and triumphant voices, celebrates the glory of God. Sunday, the Unitarian Universalist Church of Buffalo will echo with that masterpiece, celebrating a music director whose gifts enriched the church’s worship services for over 50 years.

The church’s longtime music director, Barbara Wagner, had planned to retire this year but suffered a stroke in December, bringing her musical activity to a premature stop.

Sunday’s performance, which will take place during the 11 a.m. worship service, will be directed by Ansgarius Aylward, assistant concertmaster of the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra. He will be conducting a chamber orchestra made up of BPO musicians. Besides the “Magnificat” – an extensive piece featuring chorus and vocal soloists – Aylward and his colleagues will be performing an excerpt from Bach’s Orchestral Suite No. 3.

In addition to her long tenure at the Unitarian Church, Wagner was involved with the Buffalo music community in a wide variety of ways. She was the first director of the Buffalo Gay Men’s Chorus, a post she held for a decade, and also taught for many years at Nichols School.

http://buffalogaymenschorus.com/about-us/

Our History
The BGMC idea was first conceived in 1999. Guided by Roger Parris (still one of our singers), a vigorous group of men worked throughout the coming year to make the BGMC organization a reality. With the support of the Rochester Gay Men’s Chorus to encourage them, a steering committee consisting of a dozen dedicated members had written the by-laws and incorporation papers, held fundraisers for seed money, agreed on a mission statement, elected officers and directors and (after a thorough search) hired Barbara Wagner as BGMC’s Artistic Director. She, in turn, arranged the appointment of Debi Overton as our charter accompanist. Both women are highly respected musicians. Barbara Wagner is now one of only two female conductors of over 150 gay men’s choruses in the United States and Canada.

Auditions were held in May 2001, with 36 chorus members on board after the first day. Soon there were over 50. Rehearsals began on September 11, 2001, a day of shock and sadness throughout our land. The difficult decision to go forward with the rehearsal, despite the tragedy of that day, proved to have been wise. Forty men, many not knowing each other, gathered in an eerie silence. As they and Ms. Wagner held hands for the first time in a community circle, there were anguished murmurs of meditation, grief and prayer. They sang ….(From you I receive, to you I give, together we share and from this we live”). They learned that long-lived and classic American hymn,“How Can I Keep From Singing?”. It remains to this day the Chorus theme song and a continuing reminder for its members of mutual family togetherness and inspiration that the Chorus always aspires to attain. It was the processional music at the opening of BGMC’s first public concert (“Music From the Heart”) on February 9, 2002. The men of the Chorus, singing this music with feeling and intensity, strode down the aisles of the Unitarian Universalist Church in Buffalo, with uninvited (but welcome) television news cameras recording the event. The audience that night was huge – the Church was filled, chairs lined the aisles and, sadly, people had to be turned away at the door. All concerts after that were offered twice in each performance weekend until, some years later, the Chorus began presenting three times in the weekend and, for a short time, three weekend presentation each year rather than just two. Audiences continue to be large, diverse and enthusiastic.

Emphasis added.

[no_hypocrisy]

26. If you consider humanism and/or ethical culture to be religion(s),

we embrace almost any group or individuals who are otherwise social pariahs. We are inclusive and address their concerns, fears, needs. And they can either remain or leave.

[Lordquinton]

27. An important distinction here

It's not about what you claim it's supposed to mean, it's how it is interpreted.

[cleanhippie]

33. And yet so many seem to not know that.

Hence the problems...