Religion
Related: About this forumSessions Goes Blank
Funny on GD this sank like a rock
When Asked if Secular Americans Can Understand the Concept of Truth
Of the many highlights from Sen. Jeff Sessions confirmation hearings to become our next Attorney General, perhaps the most relevant to readers of this site was the question Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) asked him, in a roundabout way, about church/state separation.
A little background helps. During the Republican National Convention this past summer, Sessions criticized Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor for her alleged irreligiosity:
The senator recalled one quote from Sotomayor that, he said, still makes the hair stand on my neck. He explained: She said there is no objectivity, just a series of perspectives. He suggested that the problem may be that Sotomayer and other judges arent sufficiently religious: If you have secularization in the world and dont believe in a higher being, maybe you dont believe there is any truth.
It was bad enough that Sessions misrepresented Sotomayors religious views. (Shes a Roman Catholic who believes in God.) But this idea that disbelief in God meant you couldnt tell right from wrong? That there was no such thing as truth? It was the sort of ignorant attack against Secular Americans that the Christian Right loves to make.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)depending on the culture.
There is scientific truth. Something that can be proven.
And there is right and wrong when describing behavior and beliefs.
I do not see the connection between scientific truth and social conceptions of right/wrong.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)When you invest in a source of truth, it's difficult to perceive another.
Philosophy is a 'soft' science, but it most certainly delves into truth or right/wrong.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)"What is truth?" Is it unchanging, a constant that remains the same in every culture?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Not difficult.
A truth:
The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second in a vacuum.
Change the 'reality' and the limit is lower in a transparent medium, like water.
Time is absolute and relative, but never universal. Etc. (In this reality)
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)There is truth, and there is truth.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)3/5ths compromise, no civil war, etc.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And if there had been no United States, how long would independence have lasted?
Ground for alternative history novelists.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Because they would have backpedaled from and ended slavery of their own volition.
Absent that, no, the general historical consensus is, the US would not have formed at that time.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)with much groundwork on the axiom of self-ownership, and internally consistent principles like the non-aggression principle.
One can construct a very logical, and fully internally consistent worldview, of only one works at it a little bit.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But there might be numerous such worldviews with little consistency among them.
I would say that "Do unto others" is a prime example of the non-aggression principle, but the large number of wars started by Christians is evidence that the principle is not followed so much as merely cited.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I always base 'do unto others' in self-ownership.
I cannot claim to own myself, and be secure in my person/labor/property, if I do not also respect your self-ownership. No one would ever respect my claim, if I went and took their stuff/life/etc.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)The quote attributed to Sotomayor actually belongs to Harvard Professor Martha Minnow. Sotomayor was quoting her in a lecture.
Not that it matters much, because Sotomayor agrees with Minnow. Not that it matters much because both Sotomayor and Minnow are essentially correct. Humans can try to be objective to the best of their ability, but their relationship to objective reality is indirect at best.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that. And it doesn't take you very long to spot one of them does it? Take you about eight seconds. You'll be listening to some guy... you say... "this guy is fucking stupid!"
Then... then there are some people, they're not stupid... they're full of shit. Huh? That doesn't take very long to spot either, does it? Take you about the same amount of time. You'll be listening to some guy..and saying, "well, he's fairly intelligent......ahht, he's full of shit!"
Then there are some people, they're not stupid, they're not full of shit... they're fucking nuts! Dan Quayle is all three! All three! Stupid, full of shit, and fucking nuts!
George Carlin: Doing It Again (1990 TV Special)
nil desperandum
(654 posts)that no senator who believes in some form of a god seemed able to grasp, we are allies with people who find bacha bazi an acceptable practice. Sessions allies and critics alike have done exactly nothing to address the fact the US is allied with those who find this barbaric act enjoyable.
Perhaps the good Senator Sessions could explain that, if anyone had the balls to ask the question of him.