Are there any progressives, theists or non-theists, in the US?

[guillaumeb]

Part of the problem of course, is defining what a progressive is. If 100 people are asked, there might be 101 answers.

But when people use the term progressive, what do they mean?

And if one has a multi-part definition, must all parts of the definition apply, or can a person score less than 100% and still be considered a progressive?

SO are you a purist, insisting on 100% agreement with your views, or are you accepting that people do have different views on a range of issues?

[trotsky]

1. According to you at least, there are progressive theists.

They oppose abortion, marriage equality, and reproductive rights.

[guillaumeb]

2. An interesting non-response to the actual question.

No names at all? Have you no one that you feel is a progressive? If so, no wonder that conservatives are in power. If the progressive community has no heroes, no inspiration, who are we to look to?

[trotsky]

7. It's actually a perfect answer.

You have taken it upon yourself to launch a series of threads celebrating what you consider to be "progressive people of faith."

You've featured individuals who oppose LGBT rights, equality, and reproductive rights.

So clearly you've already defined what "progressive people of faith" are, and it's OK for them to be opposed to those key elements of what most people (ALL the people who took bmus's poll) consider to be key to the progressive agenda.

Not my fault you picked such bad examples. Or perhaps those truly are the best examples you could think of, which is very sad.

[guillaumeb]

14. In the title are the words "theists or non-theists".

With the non-theists portion as your cue, name some progressives. We will all wait.

[trotsky]

26. Who's "we"?

The only person I see making demands is you.

And given your demonstrated past history, I have absolutely no intention of doing anything you request of me. Zero. None. If you apologize I will reconsider, but I know you won't.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Well, we could probably look in GD, or Democrats, or Activism, or a number of other groups.

If you limit yourself to 'progressive theists' you're going to have a bad time.

[chia]

3. Heroes? Martin Luther King Jr., first and foremost. Next:

Henri Nouwen or Thomas Merton?

I was just reading the other day that progressive Christianity is having a moment, here's the the article:

The Stunning Resurgence of Progressive Christianity

While many would disagree with me, I see Pope Francis as a progressive who's always been a champion of the poor, although he's not without controversy.

Full disclosure: I'm a non-practicing Catholic myself, sliding towards agnosticism.

Having said that, just as someone was saying recently that you can't define all Americans by saying "the American people..." I don't think that all progressives can be boxed and labeled the same, there probably really are 101 answers.

[guillaumeb]

4. Nice answers, especially Merton.

Some here would disagree. I suggest that you post the article if it has not already been posted.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Every pope is a champion of the poor. John Paul II, Ratzinger, Francis all say the same things

about the poor. The only difference was, John Paul and Francis dress modestly when they say it, Ratzinger draped himself in velvet and gold when he said it. Still said the same things.

And still they do, effectively, nothing about poverty. Single most wealthy private institution in the world, 'beyond accounting' the total wealth of the church, and still they do effectively nothing to actually stem the tide of poverty (because the church ignores the link between child mortality/family planning, and poverty, and undermines/blocks family planning at every opportunity)

On social issues like women's rights, equal treatment of the genders, homosexuality, etc, the RCC, and Francis specifically, is horribly regressive and conservative. Francis outspokenly so, as an individual and as speaking as the mouthpiece of the church.

It's unfortunate that you think of him as a progressive. He doesn't even want same-sex couples adopting children.

Name one other progressive on the planet that holds that position. I can think of none.

[chia]

15. True, he's not progressive by secular standards,

but he's certainly progressive by Catholic/Christian standards, as he frequently overlooks things that are considered sins in the eyes of the Church, and so he's vilified by more traditional Catholics and evangelicals (who will overlook doctrine if the attitude towards worldliness is draconian enough). Trust me on this.

He's genuinely humble; as bishop of Buenos Aires he rode the bus to work, and he continually speaks out against corporatism and the exploitation and social oppression of the poor, and seems to be pretty much aligned with liberation theology.

You may not be aware that the Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. Yes they have riches, but they are historical artifacts, and as such should be protected for posterity. I have no more problem with the Vatican museum or network of historic churches than I do with the Smithsonian.

Francis is less outspoken about homosexuality than previous popes, in fact he's reached out regularly to gay and transgendered people and has been excoriated by traditionalists for teaching when he was a professor the works of one of Spain's greatest poets who was gay (García Lorca). As for gender equality... well, the wheels of the Vatican are notoriously slow-moving.

[Lordquinton]

5. So much straw

I can't even see the goalposts anymore.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Fortunately we all have matches.

I've been told not to play with them, but it's just so tempting.

[guillaumeb]

12. Are your history books hidden under the straw?

If not, feel free to name some names.

[Lordquinton]

16. Feel free to answer literally any of the questions posed to you

Before you started building a fort from straw.

[guillaumeb]

18. I thought that might be your answer.

So far I have seen 2 names of non-theist progressives, one an apparent disciple of Richard Dawkins and the other a misogynistic former Congressman.

But I will patiently wait for the flood of names that I just know will come. And every one will be pure progressives on every issue.

[Lordquinton]

20. "apparent disciple of Richard Dawkins"

What exactly does that mean? Does it automatically disqualify someone from being progressive? Why?

[guillaumeb]

21. It means that I beleive that her manner is evocative of Dawkins.

If she is a progressive, a claim that I did not make, anyone can feel free link to her progressive positions, if any.

[Lordquinton]

23. You believe...

So you decided, upon admission that you don't know anything about her other than "you believe" that her manner is kinda sorta like someone else that she is disqualified? What about Dawkins "manner" is anti-homeless? His breakthroughs in biology? His creation of memes? His ham-fisted approach to Twitter?

[Lordquinton]

27. So you never answered what's wrong with it

And then you just dismissed her out of hand, acknowledging that you didn't even look her up.

You also intentionally omitted other progressive people with no faith that were listed for you.

[HAB911]

6. There are progressive theists

although not an area of much interest to me, I think it to be a minor segment of the religious community. The very tenants of most religions are anti-progressive. I know you will disagree with me about that, seems we have discussed before.

[trotsky]

8. Yeah that's a key point that many liberal/moderate theists don't like to talk about.

To be liberal/moderate, you need to ignore or rationalize away a significant number of passages in one's holy text.

[guillaumeb]

13. The same could apply to patriotism.

With Official history as the sacred texts.

[trotsky]

24. I'll give you one thing.

You keep trying.

You keep humiliating yourself, but that doesn't stop you from trying.

[Act_of_Reparation]

25. Well, if patriots do it, it must be OK.

Good thinkin.

[Lordquinton]

17. The thing about this whole series

Is that most progressives are theists. It's a huge framing designed to make it look like theists are an oppressed minority, when they are actually a known majority. And it's uplifting people who are known conservatives.

[guillaumeb]

19. No surprise, given that most murderers and thieves and carjackers and every category

are theists, because most people are theists.

As to the oppressed minority meme, that is ridiculous to hear when a conservative claims to be oppressed because of religious belief. Unless perhaps that conservative is a Muslim in a non-Muslim country.

[Lordquinton]

22. I wasn't talking about conservatives

You're whole framing, right down to this post I'm replying to is trying to make it seem like progressive theists are an opressed minority. And we're all seeing through it, I just got tierd of dancing around the issue.