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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:50 PM Apr 2017

Can religious Democrats be progressives?

Or is there a purity test?

About Democrats For Life of America

Democrats: We believe in the core values and principles of the Democratic Party. We are committed to freedom and justice, security and prosperity, equality and community, and hope and progress. We are proud to be members of the party that created the New Deal, Fair Deal, and New Frontier. We share the party's commitment to the Four Freedoms: freedom of speech and religion, and freedom from fear and want. We look to continue and perfect the party's commitment to the most vulnerable members of our society.
Pro-life Democrats: We believe in the legal protection of unborn life and a comprehensive, bipartisan approach to reducing the number of abortions in America and around the world. We believe in supporting women and children, strengthening families and communities, and protecting the environment. We favor eliminating unfair discrimination, improving education, and preserving the American dream for all Americans. We believe in the elimination of the death penalty, euthanasia, and embryonic stem cell research.


http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php/about-us

An interesting organization, with my own Congressman, Dan Lipinski, as a member.
38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Can religious Democrats be progressives? (Original Post) guillaumeb Apr 2017 OP
They can be as anti-choice for themselves as they want. But if they are anti-choice for other women, 50 Shades Of Blue Apr 2017 #1
An excellent response. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #3
Thank you. 50 Shades Of Blue Apr 2017 #5
John Kerry and Joe Biden are prefect examples of people who oppose abortion... nycbos Apr 2017 #7
And I, as pro-choice as it gets, voted for both of them. 50 Shades Of Blue Apr 2017 #8
No doubt. nycbos Apr 2017 #9
The vast majority of progressive Democrats are religious. Lordquinton Apr 2017 #2
I would self-delete, but that would start another thread. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #4
So what's your point? Lordquinton Apr 2017 #6
Simply asking a question. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #11
A leading question that you know the answer to Lordquinton Apr 2017 #18
There are religious people that are pro choice Buzz cook Apr 2017 #10
Not if they oppose abortion and want to restrict my rights. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #12
It all depends on who is defining progressive. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #13
Well then why don't you define it for everyone. trotsky Apr 2017 #14
I have never defined what an atheist must believe. That is for atheists. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #16
Defend your posts. trotsky Apr 2017 #19
Good of you to define the terms and decide the outcome in advance, guillaumeb Apr 2017 #20
So be it. trotsky Apr 2017 #21
Opposing reproductive rights is regressive, it is a conservative position. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #15
My point is that positions vary, even in the Democratic Party. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #17
It is not progressive to oppose women's rights. Period. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #22
I am personally pro-choice. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #23
So you agree it's not progressive to oppose women's reproductive rights. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #24
I am raising a question. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #25
I'm addressing the op: beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #26
They can be Dems (big tent party), but not progressives. ExciteBike66 Apr 2017 #27
If "pro-life" means "legal protection of the unborn" Freddie Apr 2017 #28
I am a male. Abortion would never be a choice for me. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #30
While there are truly progressive WePurrsevere Apr 2017 #29
My view is if you are voting to or supporting people who are trying to end or limit reproductive... hrmjustin Apr 2017 #31
I also support them. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #32
Personally I identify as a liberal Democrat. hrmjustin Apr 2017 #33
My Representative is a member of this group. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #36
Of course they can. Who thinks all religious people are pro-life? LAS14 Apr 2017 #34
This guy: Act_of_Reparation Apr 2017 #35
And if the threads are checked, one might notice the considerable number guillaumeb Apr 2017 #37
One might notice that. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2017 #38

50 Shades Of Blue

(9,772 posts)
1. They can be as anti-choice for themselves as they want. But if they are anti-choice for other women,
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:54 PM
Apr 2017

No -- they cannot be progressive.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
3. An excellent response.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:56 PM
Apr 2017

I am a male and abortion is not an issue I would experience directly. But I am pro-choice even though my personal position is pro-life. My pro-life stand extends to war and capital punishment.

nycbos

(6,033 posts)
7. John Kerry and Joe Biden are prefect examples of people who oppose abortion...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:00 PM
Apr 2017

... personally but support a woman's right to choose.


They are practicing catholics but still have a solid pro-choice record.

nycbos

(6,033 posts)
9. No doubt.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:15 PM
Apr 2017

I was just proving an example about was you were talking about for other who may have been unaware.

Buzz cook

(2,470 posts)
10. There are religious people that are pro choice
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:39 PM
Apr 2017

So the religion part is not a bar to being progressive. The question is can one be progressive and be anti-choice?

If we remove choice from the equation, then the question is can people be progressive if they do not support one part of the progressive agenda?

What if we change support to does not actively support or oppose one part of the progressive agenda.

Do we say those who are not for the whole progressive agenda oppose it? "Your either with us or against us".

How much support? How much opposition?

Now as far as the DFLA is concerned. They actively oppose an important part of the progressive agenda and they do so with the same kind of lies and misdirection as conservative anti-choice activists do.

They plan to defund planned parenthood. One because after people are shown videos of abortions they tend to not support planned parenthood and two because the federal government shouldn't fund abortion.
The former has to be a reference to the faked videos that circulated last year and as we know federal funds do not support abortion.

I'm going to suggest that once you adopt right wing talking points and threaten peoples access to health care you pretty much cede for progressive bona fids.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
12. Not if they oppose abortion and want to restrict my rights.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:17 PM
Apr 2017

If they oppose abortion rights they can be considered Democrats but not progressives.

Did you know DFL agrees with Trump and advocates defunding Planned Parenthood?

Yes, We Should Defund Planned Parenthood
STATEMENT OF KRISTEN DAY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DEMOCRATS FOR LIFE OF AMERICA

For many years, many people have challenged the appropriateness of government funding of Planned Parenthood because the organization concurrently has received both funding to counsel pregnant women and to perform abortions. It is a basic principle of ethics that one cannot have any self-advantageous incentive, financial or otherwise, to counsel another person about a moral decision of such great magnitude.

Elected by voters set on eliminating taxpayer-funded abortions, President Donald Trump recently has called on Planned Parenthood to separate its abortion business from its other services in order to qualify for continued government subsidies.

Democrats For Life of America supports this compromise because:

This accommodation satisfies the longstanding and bipartisan federal policy that prohibits taxpayer funding of abortion – a policy that is supported by most Americans. Planned Parenthood’s current extensive provision of abortion procedures (they are the largest abortion provider in the S.) sets it outside the acceptable parameters for receipt of federal government monies.

At Planned Parenthood, tax dollars currently subsidize “pregnancy counseling” services. This “counseling” gets taxpayer-funded reimbursement despite the fact that the primary pregnancy “service” Planned Parenthood offers is abortion. This bias invalidates the “counseling” because the organization clearly has a material interest in encouraging every pregnant woman to schedule an abortion. According to Planned Parenthood’s 2014-2015 annual report, they served approximately 2.5 million people and performed 323,999 abortionsbut provided only 17,419 prenatal visits. And how many of those prenatal visits entailed “counseling” a mother to choose abortion rather than to choose birth?

If Planned Parenthood declines the compromise, the taxpayer funding should be allocated to the 9,800 Community Health Centers in rural and urban communities around the country that provide comprehensive medical care and other health care to more than 25 million people, far beyond the minimal reproductive services provided by Planned Parenthood to only one-tenth as many people.


http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php/articles-and-op-eds/press-releases/990-defund-planned-parenthood


Interesting indeed. What kind of person thinks right wing anti-abortion propaganda is progressive?

Why do you think supporting the right to choose is a 'purity' test?

What about racism? If someone thinks PoC are inferior are we allowed to say they're not progressive? Would that make us 'purists'?

And lgbt equality? If someone thinks gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married or adopt children - are we allowed to point out that they're not progressive? Would that make us 'purists'?

Or is it just women's rights that can be sacrificed at the altar of progressive inclusiveness?

This may be a big tent and we may welcome anti-choice Democrats but we don't have to pretend that people who actively oppose my rights are progressive.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
13. It all depends on who is defining progressive.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:19 PM
Apr 2017

As any look at JPR can attest, there are a variety of opinions as to what and who is defined as progressive.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
14. Well then why don't you define it for everyone.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:22 PM
Apr 2017

You like defining atheism for atheists, so go ahead and define progressive for progressives.

Clearly from your posts so far, you think opposing LGBT rights, women's equality, and reproductive rights is progressive.

What else do you think is progressive?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
16. I have never defined what an atheist must believe. That is for atheists.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:25 PM
Apr 2017

I have stated the obvious, that atheism is a belief system, but that is defining atheism as a belief system, not defining atheism.

And nothing that I have written supports your contention that:

Clearly from your posts so far, you think opposing LGBT rights, women's equality, and reproductive rights is progressive.


I am asking a question of the readers. You are free to answer, or raise other issues, or propose your own list of progressives for readers to consider.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
19. Defend your posts.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:30 PM
Apr 2017

You don't get to make demands of others.

You've labeled several individuals "progressive people of faith". These individuals hold quite anti-progressive positions in the opinions of a large majority at least here in the DU Religion forum, but you disagree.

Defend your posts. Explain why you still think those people are progressive despite their opposition to LGBT, women's, and reproductive rights.

If you respond to this post with anything other than a defense of what YOU consider progressive, it will be taken as an admission of utter defeat and humiliation on your part.

Go ahead.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
20. Good of you to define the terms and decide the outcome in advance,
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:33 PM
Apr 2017

as you make a demand of me.

Points for consistency.

If I said that your failure to post even one name of a non-theistic progressive was an admission on your part, what would your response be?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
15. Opposing reproductive rights is regressive, it is a conservative position.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:24 PM
Apr 2017

No liberal in their right mind would ever claim support for oppressive legislation that harms women is progressive.

progressive:

a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.


Is opposition to women's rights considered "social reform" or a "new liberal idea"?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
17. My point is that positions vary, even in the Democratic Party.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:27 PM
Apr 2017

I am a pacifist. Should I judge all Democrats by that standard and decide that all who are militarists are not progressives?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
22. It is not progressive to oppose women's rights. Period.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:38 PM
Apr 2017

This isn't about pacifism, it's about forcing women to give birth.

Do you really think that forced birthers are progressive?

That it's progressive to want to ban abortion?

Seriously?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
23. I am personally pro-choice.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:41 PM
Apr 2017

And I raised the issue with Dan Lipinski at a town hall style meeting. Lipinski opposed the ACA but also voted against Trumpcare.

But I also think that access to contraception and actual sex education would go a long way to reducing the need for abortion.

But I also raised the issue of pacifism as opposed to militarism. Have you no thoughts or position on that issue?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
24. So you agree it's not progressive to oppose women's reproductive rights.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:43 PM
Apr 2017

Then why are you debating the issue?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
26. I'm addressing the op:
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:50 PM
Apr 2017
Can religious Democrats be progressives? [View all]

Or is there a purity test?

About Democrats For Life of America

Democrats: We believe in the core values and principles of the Democratic Party. We are committed to freedom and justice, security and prosperity, equality and community, and hope and progress. We are proud to be members of the party that created the New Deal, Fair Deal, and New Frontier. We share the party's commitment to the Four Freedoms: freedom of speech and religion, and freedom from fear and want. We look to continue and perfect the party's commitment to the most vulnerable members of our society.
Pro-life Democrats: We believe in the legal protection of unborn life and a comprehensive, bipartisan approach to reducing the number of abortions in America and around the world. We believe in supporting women and children, strengthening families and communities, and protecting the environment. We favor eliminating unfair discrimination, improving education, and preserving the American dream for all Americans. We believe in the elimination of the death penalty, euthanasia, and embryonic stem cell research.


I don't see pacifism mentioned anywhere in there.

ExciteBike66

(2,280 posts)
27. They can be Dems (big tent party), but not progressives.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:58 PM
Apr 2017

Edit: To be more precise, I am only referring to the "pro-life" Dems mentioned in the OP.

Religious Dems can also be progressives, but not "pro-life" religious Dems (or indeed "pro-life" non-religious Dems).

Freddie

(9,231 posts)
28. If "pro-life" means "legal protection of the unborn"
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:25 PM
Apr 2017

- imposing your view on others by force of law - that is NOT progressive.
If abortion is an unthinkable choice FOR YOU, feel free to do everything you can to prevent abortion, even discourage it - but the minute you try to impose your choice on others, you can no longer call yourself progressive or a feminist.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
30. I am a male. Abortion would never be a choice for me.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 06:53 PM
Apr 2017

I am pro-life personally and pro-choice politically.

WePurrsevere

(24,259 posts)
29. While there are truly progressive
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:10 PM
Apr 2017

Christian churches/groups, just as there are progressives of other religions, IMO this group isn't one of them.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
31. My view is if you are voting to or supporting people who are trying to end or limit reproductive...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:10 PM
Apr 2017

... rights you are not a progressive. They maybe progressive on other issues but reproductive rights is one of the big ones for me.

People may feel that you should not have an abortion, but to advocate it's elimination is a different thing entirely. And if you advocate the end of reproductive rights you probably don't really identify as a progressive.

I am religious and I support reproductive rights completely.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
32. I also support them.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:14 PM
Apr 2017

But I do not feel that I am the sole determiner of who is, or is not, a progressive. Or what progressive actions are.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
33. Personally I identify as a liberal Democrat.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:18 PM
Apr 2017

Personally I could never vote for a Democrat who was not Pro-Choice.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
36. My Representative is a member of this group.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:57 AM
Apr 2017

He has also proposed numerous bills to protect workers' rights. So even though I do not agree with his position on abortion access, he is far better than any GOP Representative.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
37. And if the threads are checked, one might notice the considerable number
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 11:00 AM
Apr 2017

of threads that seem to be motivated by a desire to portray religion as uniformly bad.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
38. One might notice that.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 01:16 PM
Apr 2017

But one can't read those posts and arrive at your questions without either 1) failing to separate religion as institutions from religious people as individuals, or 2) purposefully misrepresenting those posts.

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