Provocative news: What is wrong with white Christians?

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

This isn’t meant to simply be a provocative question. A new survey from The Washington Post and the Kaiser Family Foundation offers the latest dispiriting news about the troubling state of white Christianity...........

White Christians are also oblivious or in denial when it comes to the reality of racism and discrimination, according to data from the Public Religion Research Institute....................


Too many white Christians sacrifice the gospel’s radical solidarity with the poor and oppressed with comfortable, self-serving ideologies. Prosperity gospel preachers affirm the cult of consumerism and individualism.

The bolded portion is my change.

To read more:

http://religionnews.com/2017/08/10/what-is-wrong-with-white-christians/

Over the millennia, religion, patriotism, and history, or historical myth, have all often been used by the rich as a means of controlling the population. The prosperity Gospel is used by capitalists to justify their own greed. This is not new, it happens all over the world.

[Angry Dragon]

1. I have found that most christians feel as long as they read their holy book

they do not need to read nor learn anything else
Just yesterday I had one such encounter

[guillaumeb]

2. Unfortunately, we all have met such people.

I also know many people who have a very simplistic, comic book approach to US history. And this comic book approach and understanding governs their action as well.

[marylandblue]

3. Religion has always been about maintaining power structures

The people who use it as a vehicle for spirituality and social justice are a minority of its adherents.

[guillaumeb]

4. Perhaps this reflects the division between the mass of believers,

and those for whom religion, or more properly a religious post, is a means of advancing in society.

[marylandblue]

5. I don't know if there is much daylight between the leaders and the followers

You have a large choice of churches these days. People seem to go to churches where the ministers tell them what they want to hear. People want to hear that if they pray and trust God, they will get rich. They want to hear that poor people don't pray enough or don't work hard enough, so they don't have to help the poor. They want to hear that God doesn't want you to pay taxes, because, well, who wouldn't want to hear that one?

[trotsky]

6. "those for whom religion... is a means of advancing in society"

That statement is an example religious bigotry.

What it says is that bad people are insincere, aren't truly religious, and therefore must be simply "using" religion. It therefore says that bad people are never religious, they are always NON-religious.

That's bigotry.

[trotsky]

7. You have absolutely no way to judge the sincerity of others' religious beliefs.

I suggest you stop doing that.

[guillaumeb]

8. I have no way of proving the motivation of people who respond.

And I in no way judged anyone's sincerity here or elsewhere, but you are free to make the accusation.

[trotsky]

10. "I in no way judged anyone's sincerity" Bull fucking shit.

What you said in your OP: "The prosperity Gospel is used by capitalists to justify their own greed."

You JUDGED the sincerity of their Christian beliefs. You actually did that. Now quit attacking me and defend your words, or just apologize and retract. Show everyone how a Christian is supposed to behave.

My motivation, as I have explained to you many times, is to confront religious bigotry. I will not stop.

[guillaumeb]

12. You misread.

I said, in essence, that the prosperity Gospel is a tool that capitalists use. I am not talking about any who believe in the message, I am giving my view on the motivation of the ones promoting the message. Not even close to your framing.

[trotsky]

16. You just admitted you judged the ones promoting it!

That's what I pointed out!

How do you know they aren't Christians? Can you read their minds?

[guillaumeb]

18. You misread again.

Once again you made the accusation/claim/argument that I am deciding who is a Christian. The problem for you when making this accusation/claim/argument is that you cannot actually point to any such accusation/claim/argument in what I have actually written.

At least we are familiar with your technique.

[trotsky]

20. Yep, my underhanded "technique" of using your own words against you.

You caught me.

I'll let readers of this thread decide for themselves. I'm not going to stoop to your level.

[guillaumeb]

21. Hint: Mis-using is not the same as using.

But I understand.

[trotsky]

22. That's just your editorial comment. I don't think you do understand.

But if some few do not understand, that will not inhibit or reflect on the comprehension of the majority.

[guillaumeb]

23. I am always happy to inspire. eom

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Prosperity Gospel is new, and a minority.

It's about 65 years old, and is only a subset of evangelicals, who do not control everything anyway. Evangelicals make up 28.9% of the US, and not all are members/adherents/believers in prosperity theology.

Worldwide, evangelicals are only 300-600million, and again, prosperity theology isn't universally held among them.


One would think that if the dirty 'capitalists' wanted to justify greed, they'd use a means with better reach and frequency.

[guillaumeb]

11. I believe that they tailor the message to the group.

They use race, religion, gender, and whatever serves their purpose.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. The truth is much simpler.

The Osteen's, the Graham's, these creatures aren't capitalists at all. Nor are they in their employ.

They are extracting wealth directly, without any regard to, or for economic principle. Like a mosquito extracts blood.

[guillaumeb]

14. The same can be said of venture capitalists. eom

[AtheistCrusader]

15. No it can't.

Do you even know what they do?

You're typing on a computer or a phone presumably. How do you think they were innovated and produced?

[guillaumeb]

17. This might help you:

The VC industry wouldn’t exist without entrepreneurs, yet entrepreneurs often feel as if they’re in the backseat when it comes to dealing with VCs. For someone who’s starting (or thinking of starting) a company, the myths surrounding venture capital can be powerful. In this article I will challenge some common ones in order to help company founders develop a more realistic sense of the industry and what it offers.

And:

VCs are often portrayed as risk takers who back bold new ideas. True, they take a lot of risk with their investors’ capital—but very little with their own. In most VC funds the partners’ own money accounts for just 1% of the total. The industry’s revenue model, long investment cycle, and lack of visible performance data make VCs less accountable for their performance than most other professional investors. If a VC firm invests in your start-up, it will be rooting for you to succeed. But it will probably do just fine financially even if you fail.

https://hbr.org/2013/05/six-myths-about-venture-capitalists

[AtheistCrusader]

19. "often" is my favorite unmeasurable metric.