Why Should Atheists Have to Show Respect For Religion?

[trotsky]

By Greta Christina

https://www.alternet.org/belief/why-should-atheists-have-show-respect-religion

...Progressive and moderate religious believers absolutely have objections to religious beliefs that are different from theirs. Serious, passionate objections. They object to the Religious Right; they object to Al Qaeda. They object to right-wing fundamentalists preaching homophobic hatred, to Muslim extremists executing women for adultery, to the Catholic Church trying to stop condom distribution in AIDS-riddled Africa, to religious extremists all over the Middle East trying to bomb each other back to the Stone Age. Etc., etc., etc. Even when they share the same nominal faith as these believers, they are clearly appalled at the connection: they fervently reject being seen as having anything in common with them, and often go to great lengths to distance themselves from them.

And they should. I'm not saying they shouldn't. In fact, one of my main critiques of progressive believers is that their opposition to hateful religious extremists isn't vehement enough.

But it's disingenuous at best, hypocritical at worst, to say that criticism of other religious beliefs is inherently bigoted and offensive... and then make an exception for beliefs that are opposed to your own. You don't get to speak out about how hard-line extremists are clearly getting Christ's message wrong (or Mohammad's, or Moses', or Buddha's, or whoever) -- and then squawk about religious intolerance when others say you're the one getting it wrong. That's just not playing fair.

...But ecumenicalists are not the only believers. Not by a long shot. When it comes to religion, "live and let live" believers are very much in the minority. And progressive and moderate religion lends an unfortunate credibility to the conservative and extreme varieties. It lends credibility to the idea that faith is more valuable than evidence; to the idea that it's completely reasonable to believe things we have no good reason to think are true; to the idea that wishful thinking is a good enough reason to believe something. It lends credibility to all the things about religion that makes it most uniquely harmful.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. If only because "truth" is subjective to them.

It's their beliefs that are protected, not their actions.

[Eko]

2. No.

Why should we?

[True Dough]

3. I guess it boils down to how you define "respect"

Should we let religion encroach on public life? No, absolutely not.

Should we shout down or chastise everyday folk who practice religion? I don't believe so, unless those individuals are aggressively attempting to impose their beliefs on others.

When Jehovah's Witnesses appear at my door with no invitation and attempt to hand me a copy of The Watchtower, I sometimes feel like mocking them for their delusions. Instead, I give them a firm, "No thank you. I'm not interested." If they persist, I repeat it while closing the door.

So, for me, it's a matter of having the right to disrespect their religious views but trying to maintain some civility in the process. I'm not above occasional religious jokes or memes, however. That's been demonstrated here on this forum.

[Act_of_Reparation]

4. We all know the call to "respect" religion is a fucking farce.

Religion isn't a sentient thing. It doesn't have feelings. You can't disrespect religion.

No, this bullshit is all about theists not wanting to have their beliefs questioned, and they are using their privileged position to shame freethinkers who dare criticize all the crazy shit people actually believe. They run around injecting their religion wherever it pleases them to do so and then play the fucking victim when someone dares complain about it.

[trotsky]

5. Precisely.

Calling for "respect" of religious beliefs is code for "atheists need to stop criticizing religious belief ANYWHERE."

FFS, a DUer got accused of "intolerance" for religion because he ANONYMOUSLY related a story where a believer accosted him, he was polite and nice, but threw away her pamphlet later. Let's get this straight: he's being told he is intolerant BECAUSE HE TOLD THE STORY. Not because he shouted the believer down, not because he laughed in their face, not because he crumpled the tract and threw it at them while sacrificing a goat, NONE OF THAT HAPPENED. It's because he told a bunch of anonymous strangers he tossed the paper away later.

"Intolerance" my ass.

[Act_of_Reparation]

7. If there's a silver lining to that example...

...it's that everyone understood those accusations of intolerance to mean, "I don't like it when atheists have opinions about religion."

[trotsky]

8. Yeah it'd be nice to debate what is actually meant rather than dancing around the topic.

What is meant by "respect" for religious beliefs?

And then explain to me why I need to "respect" any idea that I disagree with. I don't respect terrorism. I don't respect sexism. I don't respect white supremacy.

[Act_of_Reparation]

9. I think part of the reason there's no real discussion...

...is because the answer is so obvious. There's nothing special about religion as an idea that we should not criticize it. Any discussion of this issue will invariably end with a theist saying, "Religion is different from other ideas because I like religion more than I like any of those other ideas."

[trotsky]

10. Yup!

Which definitely adds to the point Greta made in her article - by insisting that religious ideas get "respect" simply because they are religious, then we give cover to and empower the extremists and fundamentalists.

[guillaumeb]

14. Complete and utter misframing.

[trotsky]

20. Please explain. If you can. n/t

[guillaumeb]

22. I could, but there is no point. You have your narrative and I understand. eom

[trotsky]

23. Ah, I understand. You can't.

That's OK. You can't support your position - that much is so very clear to everyone.

[Lordquinton]

24. That is what was being described, yes

An evangelist took advantage of a situation where a person could not say no and used it to push her beliefs. The story was related where no disrespect was shown to the person, but you choose to frame it as a huge disrespect to the evangelist.

What should have that person done with the pamphlet? What would have changed that situation so that it wouldn't be "disrespectful" to you?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

25. Read the pamphlet and convert to that religion?

From all the outrage, you would have assumed they had rolled into a ball, doused it in kerosene, lit it on fire, and thrown it back at the person lighting their hair on fire resulting in 3rd degree burns.

They took the pamphlet, said nothing, and threw it away. Then had the audacity to come on an anonymous discussion board and say how that was kind of rude that the person thought they would want it.

[Lordquinton]

26. The motivation of someone proselytizing

To someone who could get fired for not being polite is not pure. It's like a guy who hits on a cashier knowing they can't tell them to go away or do anything but smile and nod. It's a scummy thing to do and usually against store policy's.

But let's not forget this is actually about"Merry Christmas"

[EvilAL]

6. I don't automatically respect anyone.

I'll give people the benefit of the doubt and treat them like they deserve to be treated from my interactions with them.
Now that the religious can't force respect under penalty of death, torture and/or imprisonment they still expect us to respect them because, well, fucked if I know.
I don't automatically expect people to respect the stuff I do. If it makes me happy why the fuck would I care if people respect me for it.
I respect a lot of religious people, friends, family. Not because of their beliefs, a lot have no religious beliefs either, but by how they treat others.

[MineralMan]

11. I respect people's right to believe whatever they can believe.

Religion, however, does not have my respect. I think it's useless mythology. However, that does not mean that I respect people who believe any less for their belief.

I respect them enough to question their religion, but not their belief. Religion is a concept, and concepts are not worthy of respect, in themselves, it seems to me.

[SonofDonald]

12. I respect PEOPLE not their religion

I don't believe, but if you want to I keep my opinion of that to myself, unless you use your religion against me.

Then it's on baby.

[trotsky]

13. Yep that's a key distinction.

People should be respected, unless they demonstrate they are not worthy of it.

Ideas should NEVER be automatically respected. Ideas must ALWAYS be open to criticism, and yes, even mockery.

[NCjack]

15. I respect the right of all to enter into religious self-delusion.

To those who wish to try to persuade me to accept their religious self-delusion, my fee to listen and comment is $500 per hour per person in the assault team. Minimum charge of $500. Payable in advance, because I don't extend credit to those who engage in self-delusion. Also, I do not respect persons who try to impose their religious self-delusions on the public and especially my family and me.

[Htom Sirveaux]

16. Religion should show respect for atheists.

Listen to their arguments. Understand them charitably. Invite them to speak to their congregations, with Q&A afterward. Get to know them as people, not abstractions.

It would foster humility and love, which after all is what religions sometimes claim to be about.

[guillaumeb]

18. Have you ever offered to be a part of such dialogue?

That is an excellent idea for both sides.

[Pope George Ringo II]

17. I can respect somebody's religion

Right up until the point they want to make it my problem, either through wasting my time talking about it, or through efforts to legislate my actions.

[NeoGreen]

19. No one should respect bad ideas, concepts or beliefs...

Last edited Mon Nov 20, 2017, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

...respect is reserved for people and all that which is alive.

Bad ideas cause harm, bad ideas not only deserve contempt, they should exposed and eliminated.

You can tell a bad idea by the harm it causes, or has caused.

[Iggo]

21. See also...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=259819

[Corvo Bianco]

27. Haha

When the Jehovah's witnesses recently came to my door, and it was clearly not going well, the guy throws in "Maybe we could set up an appointment to have our sisters come by and talk to you"

I laughed and said "Or we could set up an appointment where I try to change your belief system. Wait, I would never do that. That would be rude."