"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

[yallerdawg]

[MineralMan]

1. That assumes the existence of a "soul."

Do you think those men actually believe that souls exist? I don't, not for a minute.

They have all sought, and gained fame, wealth and power. They have received their reward. Are they smiling? You bet they are. They think they've won. Perhaps they have...

[yallerdawg]

9. Isn't it amazing?

Just one brief line out of an old book, and everyone recognizes it and the inherent truth of it.

You don't have to be "religious" or a "Biblical Literalist" to understand the reality of that question, and this recognition of human tragedy - and the hopeful salvation offered in the choices we make.

[MineralMan]

10. Well, I'm familiar with virtually all commonly quoted Bible verses.

While I do not accept the existence of the "soul," that verse clearly points out the folly of seeking that which has no true value while ignoring what does. The question of salvation versus punishment is irrelevant to the question, really, and is the religious part of the question.

That's an almost universal idea, as are many such ideas expressed in various scriptures.

[yallerdawg]

11. As a metaphor...

common to all religions - and the concept of "soul" as another metaphor - the sentiment and reality of this Biblical line is quite clear.

Our existence on earth cannot be defined by "profit."

That's a damn fine Democratic value, too!

[MineralMan]

12. It is a fine Democratic and human value.

One can substitute the word "humanity" for "soul" in that sentence without changing its meaning in any real way.

Truly our "humanity" as individuals is equivalent to our "souls." Or so I believe, anyhow. The second definition, below, is what I mean:

hu·man·i·ty
(h)yo͞oˈmanədē/Submit
noun
1.
the human race; human beings collectively.
"appalling crimes against humanity"
synonyms: humankind, mankind, man, people, human beings, humans, the human race, mortals; Homo sapiens
"Africa is home to one-sixth of humanity"
2.
humaneness; benevolence.
"he praised them for their standards of humanity, care, and dignity"
synonyms: compassion, brotherly love, fraternity, fellow feeling, philanthropy, humaneness, kindness, consideration, understanding, sympathy, tolerance;

[Pythagorean atheist]

17. True religion, authentic religion, will have a robustness that fake religion often lacks.

Just one brief line out of an old book, and everyone recognizes it and the inherent truth of it.

You don't have to be "religious" or a "Biblical Literalist" to understand the reality of that question, and this recognition of human tragedy - and the hopeful salvation offered in the choices we make.

Just as true and authentic atheism has a robustness that fake atheism lacks.

If my atheism cannot survive the existence of a soul or a god, and collapses like a house of cards once a soul or a god pops into existence, then my atheism lacks the robustness to be taken seriously as having any value.

The same thing holds for religious folks. If ones Christianity collapses like a house of cards should a soul or a god not exist, then that Christianity is not to be taken very seriously.

True religion. like true atheism, is robust, and can survive the existence on/or nonexistence of a soul or a god relatively unscathed.

[Mariana]

19. That's fascinating.

You would remain an atheist, even if you believed in the existence of a god? That's fascinating. How would that work, exactly? It seems to violate the very definition of the word.

Atheism (n): disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

[Pythagorean atheist]

20. This very thread shows how it works.

It begins with a Christian insight, quoted from a religious text, that is robust enough to survive the mere factual existence or nonexistence of a soul or a god.

If ones religion or atheism cannot survive such a (rather ill-defined) change of facts in the real world (of something that nobody will "prove" one way or the other in either of our lifetimes, btw), then what value does it have?

It would be a house of cards built on quicksand.

[ButSeeYa]

2. ...and what shall he give in exchange for his soul?

[Irish_Dem]

3. I guess they will be laughing and smiling as they go directly to hell. nt

[shraby]

4. And do not pass go.

[Irish_Dem]

6. And no get out of jail free card. Ever.

[MineralMan]

5. They don't believe in Hell. Not for a second.

They know this is it, and they're on the top of the heap. They don't give a crap about the myth of Hell.

Really. They'll tell you otherwise, but they'll be lying when they do.

[Angry Dragon]

7. fake christians

[MineralMan]

8. Yes. No doubt. Government is full of those.

They are all power-seekers.

[fierywoman]

13. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

[yallerdawg]

14. I don't care what 'they' say.

Democrats embody the teachings of Christianity far more than Republicans do.

That's a fact!

[fierywoman]

15. Absolutely!

[guillaumeb]

16. An uncomfortable fact for some.

One to be minimized.

[marylandblue]

18. It depends a lot on what you think the teachings of Christianity are

Some people want to limit it to the least objectionable teachings of Jesus. Some people want to expand it to every absurdity and incitement to violence uttered by every religious leader. There is no-one to say who is right about the correct teachings, but we do know that "the Prince of Peace" has brought many wars. So I guess we shouldn't take that Prince of Peace thing too literally.

[guillaumeb]

22. So you blame human behavior on Jesus?

Interesting reasoning process.

[marylandblue]

28. Yes, since we are not to take the Bible literally

It pretty much means whatever we want it to mean, which for some, means war. If Jesus didn't want his words
misinterpreted, he should have told us which part to take literally, and which not. A lot of people take "love your neighbor" literally, and so they only kill strangers. Other people may believe that love does not preclude killing people. Still others may believe that as long as you have faith, it's alright to kill people, since only faith can lead us to higher truths like the benefits of holy war.

[Irish_Dem]

21. Dems seem more anti-religion, but are more Christlike than GOP.

Kind of ironic.

I wonder why Dems seem to have a hard time with religion?

I think we are an independent lot, and hate the idea of being penned in
by any one. The Dem reaction to religion goes beyond an intellectual disdain
to an emotional, visceral reaction.

Maybe a lot of us were exposed as children to rigid dogma by our parents,
and we have a bad taste into our mouths.

I myself differentiate between religion and spirituality. Religion is man made and not my cup of tea. Spirituality is individual, just between me and my maker.
And I do not know why anyone thinks they can persuade me out of my own moral core and connection to God. That said, I am flexible and have more questions than answers. I am always seeking answers and new ideas.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. You say 'minimized' I say 'property attributed'.

[guillaumeb]

25. I say tomato.

Perhaps you say tomato.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Well, at least you got the joke, if not the sarcasm.

Christianity doesn't get to claim the 'golden rule' as its own property. To it's credit, it does give some lip service to it though.

[guillaumeb]

27. I would assume that every belief system adheres to the golden rule.

It is an expression of a survival mechanism.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. That axiom massively pre-dates christianity.

[delisen]

29. The March of the Soulless, the Shadow Men

Wherever these gather, there is the void.