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Fri Jan 19, 2018, 06:44 PM

Horrible people of faith: Jorge Mario Bergoglio

Born: 17 December 1936.

Currently serving as the 256 Bishop of Rome, Pope Francis.

Why horrible? Consider this:

Pope Francis has accused victims of sexual abuse in Chile of slander, saying their attacks on a bishop who's accused of covering up the abuse amount to "calumny." The remarks triggered anger and demonstrations in Chile, where several churches have been firebombed in the past week.

On the last day of his visit to Chile, Francis set the simmering resentment some hold against the Catholic Church to a full boil with his defense of Bishop Juan Barros. The bishop has been hotly criticized ever since the pope appointed him in 2015. Barros was the protégé of Rev. Fernando Karadima, a notorious disgraced priest who served in the southern city of Osorno and who was found guilty and dismissed in 2011 for abusing dozens of minors over a decades-long period beginning in the 1980s.

Karadima became the face of the church's sexual abuse scandal in Chile. And his victims say they believe Barros knew about the priest's abuse but did nothing to stop it or report it. As recently as this week, Barros has denied witnessing any abuse.

In trying to reconcile his church with its followers over decades of sexual abuse, the pope has embraced a "zero tolerance" policy. When a Chilean journalist asked Francis about Barros, the Associated Press reports, Francis replied, "The day they bring me proof against Bishop Barros, I'll speak."


Pope Francis Accuses Bishop's Critics Of Slander, Riling Sex Abuse Victims In Chile

11 replies, 1394 views

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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply Horrible people of faith: Jorge Mario Bergoglio (Original post)
Voltaire2 Jan 2018 OP
struggle4progress Jan 2018 #1
Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #2
struggle4progress Jan 2018 #3
Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #4
struggle4progress Jan 2018 #5
Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #8
struggle4progress Jan 2018 #10
struggle4progress Jan 2018 #6
Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #7
struggle4progress Jan 2018 #9
Lordquinton Jan 2018 #11

Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri Jan 19, 2018, 09:14 PM

1. What is the evidence that Barros was helping with a cover-up of Karadima?

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 19, 2018, 09:47 PM

2. Did you lose your google skills?


Bishop Barros, a former military chaplain, was part of Father Karadima’s inner circle and, according to one of the victims, witnessed the priest’s advances on him.


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/world/americas/pope-sex-abuse-chile.html

There’s more. The outrage is all over the news.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 12:02 AM

3. Here's what I find:


From 2010, when the Karadima story began to get attention:

... Juan Carlos Cruz, a Chilean who is now a corporate executive in the United States, said that when he was a 17-year-old seminary student who had just lost his father, Father Karadima also used confession as way to abuse him, touching his genitals and kissing him on the mouth. He said that in confession he had told Father Karadima that he was confused about his sexuality. He said the priest took advantage of that knowledge to intimidate him into remaining silent ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/world/americas/23chile.html

And from Wednesday:

... Cruz alleges Barros not only knew about the abuse he and his peers suffered at the hands of Karadima, but that he was actually in the room when it happened ...
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.4491266/why-this-chilean-abuse-survivor-refuses-to-accept-pope-francis-apology-1.4491284

Puting those side-by-side indicates Karadima took advantage of confession. But in Roman Catholic practice, confession is private: Barros should not have been close enough to hear what was going on; and (depending on the size of the room) may not have been close enough to observe anything clearly. It is, of course, possible that is not the whole story, but the question reasonably arises why the 2010 report doesn't implicate Barros

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 08:30 AM

4. You are actually defending this crap. Unbelievable. Sad.

Here is coverage from the press conference held by the three victims now suing the church:


In a press conference, three of the victims of sexual abuse by the priest Fernando Karadima responded to Pope Francis , who on Thursday and before leaving the country, discredited accusations of cover-up against the Bishop of Osorno and former member of the community of El Bosque, Juan Barros, describing them as "a slander".

Juan Carlos Cruz, José Andrés Murillo and James Hamilton read a statement where they reaffirmed that Barros witnessed the abuses and summoned the Supreme Pontiff for his remarks saying that "all this is extremely serious, and finally, reveals an unknown face of the Pope" .

They even made reference to a trip to the Vatican made by Barros in the company of bishops Arteaga, Koljatic and Valenzuela , to try to "shield Karadima priest and discredit us".

They also made reference to the contradictory statements of the Pope, who "says that there is not a single accusation (against Barros), since he had said before that a judicial court discredited an accusation."


http://www.24horas.cl/nacional/victimas-de-karadima-al-papa-tras-apoyo-a-barros-no-aceptamos-amedrentamientos-de-nadie-por-poderoso-que-sea-2617580

Bergoglio is lying. The church is, as usual, covering up and protecting abusers, as it has done for decades. As has been documented around the world over and over again.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 04:50 PM

5. Your earlier link says one of Karadima's victims claimed Barros witnessed the abuse;

your second suggests three are making the claim

I regard it as a worthwhile habit to get details straight: it reduces the speed at which I jump to conclusions. If you regard an effort to get details straight as "defending" something, I will be inclined to regard that view as confused

Is one of Karadima's victims claiming Barros witnessed the abuse or are three of them claiming that?

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 06:28 PM

8. I'm sure you will find some detail to focus on.

Anything to avoid the obvious, right?

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 06:40 PM

10. Anthing to reduce the speed at which I jump to conclusions

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 04:52 PM

6. ... Three Catholic churches in .. Santiago were .. vandalized by unknown assailants Jan. 12.

A firebomb at Saint Elizabeth of Hungary Parish in Santiago’s Estación Central district included a death threat against the Pope.

“Pope Francis, the next bombs will be in your cassock,” said a pamphlet left behind.

Two other chapels in the city also suffered damage, including broken windows and doors ...

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-chile-visit-revives-allegations-against-bishop-82302

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 06:27 PM

7. gee maybe people are just a little pissed off about this.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 06:40 PM

9. People often have no difficulty justifying their own bad behavior

It usually doesn't matter who: people typically think their own behavior is fine and everybody else's behavior is the problem

But when we get in a habit of making ugly assumptions about people, we compare oneselves to an ever-lower stand, and our own behavior deteriorates

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Sat Jan 20, 2018, 06:43 PM

11. And this is just the latest thing he's done

He is still harboring the notorious Ratzinger, who was responsible for the massive coverup of the abuse scandal when he was head of the inquisition, among other things...

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