The human mind is an emergent property of chemicals, electricity, and meat.

[Act_of_Reparation]

Have fun while it lasts, fellas.

[eppur_se_muova]

1. They're made of meat !!

Dreaming meat !

http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

[MineralMan]

2. Indeed!

[Voltaire2]

3. Which implies that indeed we should be worried about the AI.

Hawking might just be right about that.

[Act_of_Reparation]

7. We just gotta cut a deal with Wintermute/Neuromancer so our ROM constructs can live on in the matrix

And I'm talking about the real Gibson matrix. Not that bullshit Wachowski crap.

[NeoGreen]

4. What, no "Woo"?!...

...that might lead some to think we can murder and rapine at will...could get messy...

[Act_of_Reparation]

5. Can't have people thinking they're made of the same stuff as bears and dung beetles.

It would be an orgy of death and debauchery, I tell you. A veritable heavy metal music video!

[NeoGreen]

6. Oh yes, I forgot the heavy metal music...

...

...definitely needed...

[Act_of_Reparation]

8. Well, the tuba is heavy and it *is* made of metal... so 'A' for effort, I guess.

I was thinking of something more like this:

&index=17&list=PLg1W9rhe-W-4ZLPqF1XiZBZwAzFM6rESD

[NeoGreen]

9. Oh my...

...and, ouch, my ears.

A libertarians idea of hip-hop?

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. I dunno about libertarians or hip hop...

...but it is a great way to scare the piss out of your parents.

[guillaumeb]

11. Correct, as far as it goes.

Does it explain Shakespeare? Or Thomas Jefferson?

[Act_of_Reparation]

12. Yes, it does.

[edhopper]

15. Yes

because that organized bit of matter can achieve great things in a purely naturalistic Universe.

The same way raw stone can be organized into something amazing.

Whether by man or nature.

[trotsky]

22. If you think that it *doesn't*, why don't you say what you think it is?

And the mechanism by which your proposal works?

[struggle4progress]

13. What moral responsibilities do you feel towards

chemicals, electricity, and meat?

[Voltaire2]

14. So you think we need gods to have morality?

[struggle4progress]

34. My question didn't involve "gods" --- it involved "chemicals," "electricity," and "meat"

(which are words usually used to communicate certain particular limited ideas) and "moral responsibility" (a large topic on which people hold a variety of views)

[Voltaire2]

41. Sure it did, you are just trying to avoid

making that obvious.

Do you think consciousness is non-physical?

[struggle4progress]

47. I suspect you are trolling for a reaction, since you seem intent to put words

in my mouth

I don't have any scientific opinion about "what consciousness is"

[Voltaire2]

48. Of course you dont.

Your intentions were clear.
Thanks for calling me a troll. Again.

[struggle4progress]

49. "Of course you dont" and "Your intentions were clear" also suggest

that you are simply trolling for a reaction

No theory of "consciousness" would be considered scientific unless it were quantifiable and supported by quantifiable experiments that can be duplicated. No such theory exists today. If someone develops such a theory and it's confirmed, Nobel prizes will follow

[Voltaire2]

50. what exactly does that have to do with morality?

[Mariana]

16. It depends on what the chemicals, electricity, and meat are part of.

If a particular batch of chemicals, electricity, and meat are making up the brain of a rat, for example, I don't feel any moral responsibility toward them at all.

[MineralMan]

17. I once had a pet rat. It knew me.

It was pretty good at solving problems, too, when it came to food. It was friendly, mild-mannered, and seemed to enjoy interacting with me. It was pet rat, and I did have a moral responsibility to care for it well.

Like me, it was a mammal. It had a similar skeletal structure and all the same organs I have, including its brain. We're not so different, at least on some level. It was a rat. I'm a primate. We got along just fine.

[Mariana]

18. Last fall, I watched a red tailed hawk catch a wild rat in my backyard.

It was amazing to watch. I've seen a few hawks take mourning doves out there, but this one found a rat. I was rooting for the hawk.

[MineralMan]

19. In the wild, nature rules.

We feed the squirrels and birds in our front yard. Occasionally, a hawk stops by for lunch, and makes off with one of them. And there it is. We're feeding all of the animals, not just some of them. Still, it's rare for a hawk to take critters we feed.

[Mariana]

20. We would probably have more hawks picking off the animals

that come to our feeders, but we also have some crows that live here and nest in one of our trees. They gang up and chase off any hawk that may be inclined to hang around. I'm pretty sure the crows are smarter than you, me and your late pet rat all put together.

[MineralMan]

21. Ah, yes, the crows...

We have about 40 crows or so who descend on our yard twice a day. They especially favor the in-shell peanuts we throw out for the squirrels. To give the squirrels a chance at them, we also throw out cheap dry catfood for the crows. That evens things out.

I don't even like to think about how much money we spend on feeding the outdoor menagerie. Especially in the winter months, it gets really expensive. Fortunately, our local farm supply store finally started stocking 50 lb. bags of in-shell peanuts, which saves some money.

And then there are the suet blocks, and the black oil sunflower seeds, and the giant bags of cheap wild bird seed for all the little birds. We have sparrows and chickadees who live in the evergreen bushes next to our front porch. When we open the door, a whole flock of them bursts out of the bushes.

At night, the raccoons show up in our yard, along with a skunk now and then, and the odd opossum. Mice and short-tailed shrews, drop by, too.

But, what are you gonna do. Everything has to eat.

[Mariana]

24. Hmm, I never thought of dry catfood for the crows.

We have a much smaller group, I usually only see 3 or 4 at a time.

I make my own fat blocks for winter feeding, and the birds prefer them to the commercial ones. Lard is cheap.

[MineralMan]

25. Good idea, but I don't think I'm going to start making those

for the animals. I do enough cooking around here for the resident primates in the house. I think I'll just keep buying suet blocks from the farm supply store, by the dozen.

I like seeing the woodpecker class of birds a lot. During the fall and spring, we often get Pileated woodpeckers visiting for a day or two on their migration treks. Last year a female showed up with her two fledglings, and fed them in our front yard. I have a video. It's poor in quality, but there they are. The video looks a lot better full-screen, BTW:

[Mariana]

29. Very nice. I've never seen one in person.

They do live around here, and I built a feeder that can accommodate them. Maybe someday one will find it.

I got a silicone suet block mold as a gift. I stays in the freezer, and whenever I have bacon fat or hamburger fat or whatever to pour off, it goes into the mold. Maybe I toss in a little peanut butter, cornmeal, or bits of fruit. When the mold is full, I pop out the block, wash the mold and start another.

I started making them from lard when I saw that the homemade blocks were getting eaten much faster than the store-bought ones. Often I don't even add anything to it, and just put out chunks of plain lard. They love it. In warmer weather I still use the commercial blocks. The young crows go through them pretty quickly.

[whathehell]

26. You get an "e" for effort..

[MineralMan]

27. Thanks.

Nobody has given me a grade for decades.

[whathehell]

28. Lol.

No problem...The act of Reaching is always worthy of note.

[Act_of_Reparation]

23. The same ones you do.

I only speak up now because this loaded question is perfectly illustrative of why you aren't worth talking to. Back to the iggy list with you.

[MineralMan]

37. We are animals. We are made of meat, just like other animals.

We're mammals. We're primates. Our bodies work just the same as other mammals and primates. We have all the same parts. We reproduce the same way. We're equipped to feed our young the same way. Our brains are just a bit larger than most other mammals, except perhaps whales and porpoises.

We are made of meat, just as are all those other mammals, too.

[struggle4progress]

46. The purpose of words is to communicate. But they are always vague, and

it is too easy to fall into the trap of considering every grammatical sentence to be either true or false

"The human mind is an emergent property of chemicals, electricity, and meat" is grammatical and has the appearance of an assertion, but the actual "meaning" of the sentence is unclear. It has, for example, no obvious scientific content, since there is no clear quantifiable underlying theory supported by quantifiable experiments that can be duplicated

[PJMcK]

52. The intention is pretty clear

Re-read the text of the OP:

"Have fun while it lasts, fellas."

[Dream Girl]

30. Correction - the human brain is an emergent property of meat, etc. but wat about the mind?

The brain houses the mind. The mind persists after death when there is no body. That is what I believe. Science doesn’t understand nor can it explaine consciousness. Maybe in a decade or two science will have a better understanding of consciousness and where it goes after death. I’m sure heads will explode from this post, I don’t really care wat the science is god set thinks. I am not Christian nor even religious/spiritual. I just happen to believe there is far more to life and consciousness and even “God” than our current scientific knowledge permits us to understand.

[Voltaire2]

32. Thats fine, but science understands a lot

about consciousness, and there is currently no evidence that a mind/body dualism exists or is needed to explain consciousness. Nor is there any evidence at all that your consciousness persists after your brain dies.

Is this mind you think is separate from the brain physical?

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. No, not correction.

The brain is the chemicals, the electricity, and the meat. The brain produces the mind. Without the brain, there is no mind.

[trotsky]

35. No one is saying you can't believe all that.

Just understand there is no evidence. If you could provide one example of a mind existing without a brain, you would certainly dumbfound a LOT of scientists and undoubtedly win yourself a Nobel prize.

[MineralMan]

38. There is zero evidence of the mind persisting after the death of a human.

Zero. You hope it does. You may even believe that it does. But there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

If you can find some evidence, please let us know. That would be earthshaking.

[Dream Girl]

39. There is lots of evidence (anecdotal and some scientific), but naysayers would never accept it.

Thousands of NDEs have been documented but they are easily dismissed by naysayers as chemical/electrical reactions to the "last gasp of a dying brain"...This despite some who have "crossed over" demonstrating continued awareness and consciousness of things they could not have known or experienced while they where unconscious. I don't believe that "scientific evidence" is the holy grail because our understanding is evolving. There are lots of studies, experiments and accounts that hint at the continued existence of consciousness, but nothing definitive. I would dig them up, but don't care to at the present moment. As for what I hope or believe, I wouldn't say that I hope it does, but I am open to the possibility. I'm glad I have an open mind, but it must be nice to have a complete understanding of the nature of existence. I'm kind of jealous...

[MineralMan]

40. Ok, then. Good luck with all that.

[Voltaire2]

42. The modifier near is critical. NT.

[Act_of_Reparation]

43. You obviously know a lot about science.

[Dream Girl]

45. I see what you did there😶

[Cuthbert Allgood]

44. "some scientific"? Would love to read those studies.

[procon]

31. Needs more ketchup. 👌 nt

[Docreed2003]

51. Very true...that has been known for some time

But do tell how that brain functions in the way that it does, why humans are the only evolved species that functions the way we do; why the dna structure we have is shared by damn near every organism on this planet, at least in the way organisms with dna process their genome; what are memories and why are they stored the way they are, what are feelings and emotions other than an electrical spark within a hunk of meat....

I could go on and on. I’m not arguing for the existence of a higher deity, despite my own personal spiritual beliefs. What I’m saying is the human mind is a fascinating, absolutely remarkable thing and to reduce it to a hunk of meat with some elements and electrical interactions is simplistic and it reduces the awesomeness of that organ to no more than ground meat, although I could argue our current President has ground meat for brains.

[Voltaire2]

53. It doesn't reduce consciousness to a hunk of meat.

That is a misreading. The claim is that consciousness is an emergent property of our physical bodies, that it is not some "injected" soul or cosmic consciousness or whatever supernatural nonsense people wish to claim consciousness is.

It emerges out of "meat." We see very similar levels of consciousness in other primates and also in some birds. There is a clear evolutionary progression, so no mystery there either.