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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 12:25 PM Feb 2018

Good news: On college campuses, some evangelicals find room to reflect

From the article:

Evangelicals in particular, have long harbored misgivings about academia, viewing universities as places where faith goes to die.
Study centers, however, want to cast off the perception that evangelicals are anti-intellectual or anti-science. Protestants, after all, established most of the universities known today as the Ivy League, and these centers want to restore respect for learning and scholarship......

At UVA, one of the most popular study center offerings is the Faith, Reason, and Science Group, which has been a long-standing partnership with the Virginia Atheists and Agnostics. Participants might reflect on a chapter from a book by evolutionary biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins one week, and by geneticist and evangelical Francis Collins the next.


To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2018/02/05/on-college-campuses-some-evangelicals-find-room-to-reflect/
81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Good news: On college campuses, some evangelicals find room to reflect (Original Post) guillaumeb Feb 2018 OP
The article calls it what it is at the very end: A "safe space" for believers. DetlefK Feb 2018 #1
At UVA there is a Christian/atheist partnership. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #2
That center is for Christians. The article mentions one MineralMan Feb 2018 #4
"Sarah Macris, a biology and religious studies undergraduate at UVA:" yallerdawg Feb 2018 #8
But this must be dismissed because it conflicts with what they believe to be correct. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #9
She's talking about discussion with other Christians Mariana Feb 2018 #23
We're all Democrats. yallerdawg Feb 2018 #26
But among those for whom only the perfect will do, guillaumeb Feb 2018 #39
Perhaps you should reread the article. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #12
Intersting what you did read. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #20
So evangelicals don't respect scholarship and academia? Lordquinton Feb 2018 #3
I would suggest reading the article, guillaumeb Feb 2018 #10
Like, the "there is a God" kind of unsupported or the "this is good news" kind of unsupported? Act_of_Reparation Feb 2018 #13
As in, LQ should read the article. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #14
How do you know he didn't? Act_of_Reparation Feb 2018 #18
Your concern is noted. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #19
Make a point and I'll happily address it. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2018 #29
Ah yes, the "I'm rubber you're glue" retort Lordquinton Feb 2018 #62
This was in the excerpt. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #66
Doesn't change what I said. Lordquinton Feb 2018 #73
I understand that is your opinion. eom guillaumeb Feb 2018 #75
Clearly not the case Lordquinton Feb 2018 #77
"...viewing universities as places where faith goes to die" trotsky Feb 2018 #5
That's one of the reason the religious right opposes MineralMan Feb 2018 #6
"Lots of people"? guillaumeb Feb 2018 #16
Yes, you have made clear how much you dislike non-believers... trotsky Feb 2018 #24
And what caused it? guillaumeb Feb 2018 #40
Caused what? n/t trotsky Feb 2018 #65
This: guillaumeb Feb 2018 #68
Impetus for what? n/t trotsky Feb 2018 #70
Generally the impetus was the Enlightenment. Voltaire2 Feb 2018 #78
The Enlightenment arose with the help of the Catholic Church. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #79
Oh FFS no it arose despite the best efforts of the RCC to make sure it didn't. Voltaire2 Feb 2018 #80
More ahistorical "history"? guillaumeb Feb 2018 #81
And yet zipplewrath Feb 2018 #55
And yet... trotsky Feb 2018 #64
You seem to just assume this is good news, and fail to establish why anyone should care. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #7
It is dialogue. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #11
No. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2018 #15
I already made my claim, and the post supports it. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #17
You made an unsubstantiated claim. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2018 #31
The common denominator is posting anything positive about religion. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #41
I understand why you would need to think that. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2018 #44
No "need" there. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #45
I understand why you would want to believe that, too. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2018 #48
Why is it interesting to, or necessary in College, outside a comparative relgion or history class? AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #22
Why is dialogue and outreach "necessary"? guillaumeb Feb 2018 #27
Why desirable then? AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #28
Outreach and dialogue is desirable. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #30
Why? AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #32
You haven't demonstrated that any outreach and dialog is going on. nt. Mariana Feb 2018 #47
Right. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #51
Dialog with non-Christians seems to be pretty thin on the ground Mariana Feb 2018 #21
Yes it does. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #25
I prefer to look at the source material, when it's available Mariana Feb 2018 #33
Presumably neither of us attends the university. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #35
May be, might be, could be. Mariana Feb 2018 #42
If you feel the need to reframe every positive post about religion, guillaumeb Feb 2018 #43
The website is there, and it says what it says. Mariana Feb 2018 #46
Did you find what was there, or did you find what you looked for? guillaumeb Feb 2018 #50
Your question was answered before you asked it, MineralMan Feb 2018 #53
The same question applies here. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #54
Why don't you answer my questions. Mariana Feb 2018 #56
Some people only have questions, but are unable to provide answers. MineralMan Feb 2018 #57
#59 guillaumeb Feb 2018 #60
I wonder if that's part of Jesus's message. Mariana Feb 2018 #61
The answer to your question was in the article, guillaumeb Feb 2018 #59
Article excerpt full of shit. Voltaire2 Feb 2018 #34
Is it universal, this tendency? guillaumeb Feb 2018 #36
Did I say it is universal? Voltaire2 Feb 2018 #37
And to my other questions, guillaumeb Feb 2018 #38
Im sorry but you dont get a follow up Voltaire2 Feb 2018 #49
Nice evasion. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #52
You're not fooling anyone with this shit, guillaumeb. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #58
Yeah, everyone responds to you in this manner because you keep behaving like this. trotsky Feb 2018 #63
Harmony. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #67
Yeah, because of shit like that. trotsky Feb 2018 #69
We always have difficulty seeing ourselves as others see us. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #71
Of course you did. trotsky Feb 2018 #72
Your response illustrates what I was referring to. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #74
And yours, mine. trotsky Feb 2018 #76

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. At UVA there is a Christian/atheist partnership.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 12:38 PM
Feb 2018

In pursuit of dialogue and perhaps, one hopes, a recognition of what we have in common.

MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
4. That center is for Christians. The article mentions one
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:28 PM
Feb 2018

interaction with an atheist group. But, the center is for Christians. You can't get in unless you know the lock code. You've taken one sentence out of the article to pretend that it is a center for unbiased investigation. It's not. Did you read the entire article? I did.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
8. "Sarah Macris, a biology and religious studies undergraduate at UVA:"
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:26 PM
Feb 2018

“The goal isn’t to shut down discussion by how right you are,” she said. “It’s a conversation in which you love and care about one another in pursuit of truth.”

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
9. But this must be dismissed because it conflicts with what they believe to be correct.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:29 PM
Feb 2018

Ironic, but true.

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
23. She's talking about discussion with other Christians
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:15 PM
Feb 2018

which is made clear by the preceding paragraph. So, here it is in context:

Study center regulars don’t agree on hot-button issues such as human sexuality, President Trump’s politics or the evangelical label, but she said the leaders as well as the students active in the center are committed to respecting other people’s beliefs.

“The goal isn’t to shut down discussion by how right you are,” she said. “It’s a conversation in which you love and care about one another in pursuit of truth.”

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
26. We're all Democrats.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:28 PM
Feb 2018

I don't understand why we can't share some of her values like: ..."appreciates the spirit of open inquiry mixed with warmth at the center" in the sentence before YOUR quote.

If this goes on, you might end up quoting - and reading! - the entire article!

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
39. But among those for whom only the perfect will do,
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:18 PM
Feb 2018

and there might be some here, it seems that any imperfection is reason to reject the effort.

It seems that some very few here cannot admit that religion might be responsible for anything good.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
12. Perhaps you should reread the article.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:32 PM
Feb 2018

You seem to have missed the point about outreach and dialogue.

Or was it the "good news" caption that offended?

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
3. So evangelicals don't respect scholarship and academia?
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:18 PM
Feb 2018

That's the real problem. Now they are getting others to bend to their will about it. Thanks Republican Jesus!

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
18. How do you know he didn't?
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:48 PM
Feb 2018

Just because he didn't walk away with the points you personally, subjectively felt were salient you assume he didn't read the piece? That's rude.

Jesus wouldn't approve.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
62. Ah yes, the "I'm rubber you're glue" retort
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 04:14 AM
Feb 2018

Regardless of what I read in the article, what I said is true. There is obvious disregard from evangelicals towards education and academia. Just look at the ark encounter, or like, a dozen easily found, often reiterated examples that you'd have to have a strong angle to attempt to deny.

So, what's your angle? "Not alll~ll evangelicals"? feel under attack when any branch of christianity is called out that you jump to defend the most preposterous examples?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
66. This was in the excerpt.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 01:00 PM
Feb 2018
At UVA, one of the most popular study center offerings is the Faith, Reason, and Science Group, which has been a long-standing partnership with the Virginia Atheists and Agnostics. Participants might reflect on a chapter from a book by evolutionary biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins one week, and by geneticist and evangelical Francis Collins the next.


In my view, this outreach is excellent news.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
5. "...viewing universities as places where faith goes to die"
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:30 PM
Feb 2018

For lots of people, that is exactly the case. Was for me too.

MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
6. That's one of the reason the religious right opposes
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:36 PM
Feb 2018

higher education. They believe that line is accurate. While it is for some people, of course, those people would have found their way to non-belief either way. And universities also have organizations for Christian students, too. It's inconvenient for religious hard-liners that education presents ideas to students. They don't like ideas.

My path to atheism occurred, in part, while I was in college, but college had nothing to do with it. Being anti-education won't keep young people in church. The ones who leave will leave, either way.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
24. Yes, you have made clear how much you dislike non-believers...
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:19 PM
Feb 2018

and wish to minimize both their numbers and importance.

Thanks for reaffirming what everyone already knows about you.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
68. This:
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 01:01 PM
Feb 2018
..viewing universities as places where faith goes to die"

For lots of people, that is exactly the case. Was for me too.


What was the impetus?

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
80. Oh FFS no it arose despite the best efforts of the RCC to make sure it didn't.
Sat Feb 10, 2018, 04:02 PM
Feb 2018

But one thing that certainly developed from the enlightenment is that universities gradually became secular institutions dedicated to advancing human knowledge rather than ossified institutions for preserving medieval academic traditions.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
64. And yet...
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 10:18 AM
Feb 2018

that doesn't contradict what I said.

Additionally, the church made sure there were no other competing institutions for knowledge for a very long time. That should always be remembered.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
7. You seem to just assume this is good news, and fail to establish why anyone should care.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:53 PM
Feb 2018

Why, precisely, is this good news in your view?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
11. It is dialogue.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:31 PM
Feb 2018

Is dialogue and outreach bad news? If you believe that, feel free to defend that position.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
15. No.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:45 PM
Feb 2018

You made the positive claim. It is incumbent upon you to back it up. Do your due diligence or stop whining. Either would be preferrable.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
17. I already made my claim, and the post supports it.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:47 PM
Feb 2018

And almost in chorus, some few prefer to attack good news.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
31. You made an unsubstantiated claim.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:36 PM
Feb 2018

Repeating that claim is not "support".


And almost in chorus, some few prefer to attack good news.


Yes, many people register their distaste for your posts. The only common denominator is you.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
41. The common denominator is posting anything positive about religion.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:22 PM
Feb 2018

In my reading here, each time anyone posts anything that presents religion in a positive light, a certain few can be counted on to weigh in and attack the post and/or the poster. It happens constantly.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
44. I understand why you would need to think that.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:46 PM
Feb 2018

It's easier to think something inherently wrong with us than it is to seriously examine what you say and how you say it.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
22. Why is it interesting to, or necessary in College, outside a comparative relgion or history class?
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:00 PM
Feb 2018

I fail to understand the need.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
32. Why?
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:50 PM
Feb 2018

Your article couches this as a hedge that these people won't lose their religion. Or rather, that they fear doing so.

Again I ask why does that matter?

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
21. Dialog with non-Christians seems to be pretty thin on the ground
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 02:56 PM
Feb 2018

at the Center for Christian Studies.

Center for Christian Studies
We seek to promote Christian formation through the communication of biblical truth, for the good of the University community, with hospitality and care, and in unity with other Grounds ministries.

What the hell is "Christian formation"?

https://www.studycenter.net/

Listed under Small Groups, presumably because it's a small group:

Faith, Reason, and Science
The Faith, Reason, and Science group is for discussing questions about epistemology, the philosophy of science and the relationship of science and the Christian faith.

https://www.studycenter.net/small-groups

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
33. I prefer to look at the source material, when it's available
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 04:13 PM
Feb 2018

rather than take the word of a writer who may be highly biased. It appears that some of the content of this piece isn't entirely accurate.

For example, she calls the Faith, Reason and Science Group "one of the most popular", yet the website lists it under Small Groups. I see no mention of any "alliances" or discussions with non-Christians anywhere on the site - although it may be that "Christian formation" means the formation of new Christians via recruitment, which would of course require some kind of communication. Do you see any evidence of dialog with non-Christians on the site?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
35. Presumably neither of us attends the university.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 07:56 PM
Feb 2018

Small groups may be a general term. There are many such groups at DU. I would not expect details or transcripts of every meeting that takes place between every group.

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
42. May be, might be, could be.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:30 PM
Feb 2018

Most likely, though, the Center is exactly what its own website makes it appear to be: A place for Christians to go where they can exclude non-Christians.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
43. If you feel the need to reframe every positive post about religion,
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:41 PM
Feb 2018

that might make one wonder why.

But your reframing here literally requires you to reject what was written in favor of a scenario that you imagine might be correct.

Amazing exercise in framing.

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
46. The website is there, and it says what it says.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 09:26 PM
Feb 2018

Have you read any of it? Have you found any examples of inclusion of non-Christians there?

Since the site is there for everyone to see, and it was published by the organization itself, why should I take the word of some writer I've never heard of or read before? This may shock you, but I don't believe things just because some stranger wrote them. I look for evidence that claims are true. I looked for corroboration for that one pitiful sentence you're so excited about, that vaguely hints at some kind of dialog, and I found none. Indeed, I found much evidence that the Center exists for the purpose of excluding non-Christians.

MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
53. Your question was answered before you asked it,
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 03:51 PM
Feb 2018

in the post you replied to.

There's no indication on the page for that organization that they seek dialog with non-Christians. Therefore, I doubt that such dialog takes place. If anyone tried, they'd get the usual circular logic applied to science by science deniers. We're all familiar with that, and are used to it.

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
56. Why don't you answer my questions.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 04:33 PM
Feb 2018

The website is there, and it says what it says. Have you read any of it? Have you found any examples of inclusion of non-Christians there?

These are simple questions, Gil. answerable by a Yes or a No. An honest person wouldn't have any difficulty answering either one.

MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
57. Some people only have questions, but are unable to provide answers.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 04:37 PM
Feb 2018

That can be a sign of many different things, I think.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
60. #59
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 06:54 PM
Feb 2018

And, as I mentioned to the questioner, the answer was in the excerpt and the article. An article that you said you read.

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
61. I wonder if that's part of Jesus's message.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 12:22 AM
Feb 2018

Maybe it's a secret commandment, only found in The Gospel According to St. Guilliaume.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
59. The answer to your question was in the article,
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 06:53 PM
Feb 2018

and actually in the excerpt. I assumed that you read it, but on the assumption that you might no have read it, here it is again:

At UVA, one of the most popular study center offerings is the Faith, Reason, and Science Group, which has been a long-standing partnership with the Virginia Atheists and Agnostics. Participants might reflect on a chapter from a book by evolutionary biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins one week, and by geneticist and evangelical Francis Collins the next.


You can reject this, based on your feelings, if you wish, or you can accept it.

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
34. Article excerpt full of shit.
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 06:43 PM
Feb 2018

Study centers, however, want to cast off the perception that evangelicals are anti-intellectual or anti-science. Protestants, after all, established most of the universities known today as the Ivy League, and these centers want to restore respect for learning and scholarship....


All evangelicals are Protestants, not all Protestants are evangelicals.

The anti-intellectual anti-science tendency in evangelicals is very strong.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
36. Is it universal, this tendency?
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:06 PM
Feb 2018

or are there exceptions?

And if there are exceptions, or those open to the concept, is it better ti ignore them or to reach out?

And is it better for the faith group at UVA to dialogue with the atheist group, or to ignore them?

In your universe, is the perfect always the enemy of the good?

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
37. Did I say it is universal?
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:14 PM
Feb 2018

I said it is very strong.
82% of evangelicals either reject Theory if Evolution entirely or believe it is guided by their imaginary sky being. They rank at the bottom in this pew survey
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/10/darwin-day

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
38. And to my other questions,
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 08:15 PM
Feb 2018

about openness to dialogue, and the perfect being the enemy of the good, what of them?

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
49. Im sorry but you dont get a follow up
Wed Feb 7, 2018, 10:23 PM
Feb 2018

You once again engaged in a straw man attack. I refuted your bullshit and backed up my actual assertion with evidence. Your article is full of dodgy shit, as I and others have pointed out. Evangelicals are, in the vast majority, anti-science anti-intellectual rightwing authoritarians.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
63. Yeah, everyone responds to you in this manner because you keep behaving like this.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 10:12 AM
Feb 2018

It's insanity. Really. It's a good thing I enjoy seeing you humiliate yourself over and over again, or I'd just put you on ignore and be done with it.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
69. Yeah, because of shit like that.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 01:14 PM
Feb 2018

You can't even see people you disagree with as individuals. No, they're a "choir" in "harmony."

I address my arguments to YOU as a believer. I reply to YOUR questions and YOUR points.

You refuse to grant me, or anyone else who disagrees with you, the same respect.

No wonder you have such a tough time here. Pity you refuse to see it.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
71. We always have difficulty seeing ourselves as others see us.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 01:16 PM
Feb 2018

I used the word "we" to emphasize something.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
72. Of course you did.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 01:18 PM
Feb 2018

Because you can't just admit error or apologize, you have to make it seem like it's a problem for everyone.

Again, illustrating why so many have a problem with you.

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