What the Heart Knows (An exploration of the "mode of knowing that transcends reason")

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

My wife and I were recently invited to lead another service at our local Unitarian chapel and when thinking about what our theme should be, it occurred to us that both Muslims and Unitarians champion the use of reason, firmly insisting that reason should be a bedrock of faith. Yet within Islam, there has always been a mode of knowing which transcends human reason, an intuitive knowledge of the heart which Sufis in particular have attempted to explore......................

After exploring the poem, we................... then invited the congregation to consider a great figure of Western philosophy: Parmenides. Parmenides is often called the “Father of Logic” and his work influenced Socrates and Plato. Most academics like to present him as a rather dry rationalist, somebody you wouldn’t associate with the heart at all.

Parmenides was a mystic, an initiate in the Greek mysteries. Rather than developing logic through dry, rational thought, logic was a divine gift bestowed on him in an altered state of consciousness, a journey into the underworld brought about during a process called “incubation”:

Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/livingtradition/2017/04/what-the-heart-knows/#Xf32vBbtks8wss4c.99

Logic as a "divine gift bestowed on him". Similar to being "created in the image and likeness", but rejected by those who focus solely on what they call rationality.

An interesting, somewhat long article, but this "mode of knowing that transcends reason" is something that people of faith are well acquainted with.








Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/livingtradition/2017/04/what-the-heart-knows/#Xf32vBbtks8wss4c.99

[trotsky]

1. The problem is, a lot of people use the same process to come to drastically different conclusions.

Some simply lie, distort, and attack other people, because their heart tells them they should.

Others come to the conclusion that things like homosexuality or abortion are terrible sins that must be stopped.

So yeah, lots of "people of faith are well acquainted with" this method - and many of them come to some dreadful conclusions that you can't prove are wrong.

When two different "people of faith" come to conclusions that directly oppose each other, yet we must live in a society under ONE law, how do you determine which one to follow?

[edhopper]

2. First Kingsley is highly controversial

and by no means authoritative.

Second, you take the tag "Father of Logic" as way to literal. Parmenides was very influential, but did not invent what we consider logic.

He also thought that motion and change were an illusion.

But you must love his completely unsubstantiated "something cannot come from nothing"

[yallerdawg]

3. Contrary to what some believe...

a great deal of religious experience is in silent meditation and the quiet moments of one's life.

It's not lecture and threat and repetitive orthodoxy and relentless mindless brainwashing.

It was as quietly stated in the recent Scorsese movie:

"It was in the silence that I heard Your voice."

[guillaumeb]

7. True.

And Jesus did say to pray in secret.

[marylandblue]

4. I get the sense that theists think

atheists don't feel love, or read poetry, or listen to music, or meditate, or stare in awe at the wonders of the universe. I also get the sense that liberal theists of the sort who would read both Parmenides and Rumi must think they have a lot in common with the fundamentalist Christians who think the gays are going to hell.

[Mariana]

5. That's one way theists dehumanize atheists.

Another way is to act as if we're all the same, identical and interchangeable, instead of individual human beings.

[Voltaire2]

6. Well we are souless amoral automatons

after all.

[guillaumeb]

8. Some theists literally do not like or understand atheists.

They see atheism as a void instead of a choice.

[trotsky]

17. "Some theists literally do not like or understand atheists."

Perhaps if those theists would stop trying to define atheism as an active "belief"...

[MineralMan]

9. The Heart Is a Pump.

Pumps do not think. All knowing and thought takes place in the brain. No evidence exists for any other conclusion.

"What the heart knows" is nothing more than a metaphor for the brain when used in that sense. We may not always have known that, but we know that now, so that antiquated metaphor probably shouldn't be used. It makes no sense at all.

[guillaumeb]

10. Please pardon my weak thinking in quoting this, however, as you said,

Such skills are not encouraged among religious believers, and for obvious reasons.

[MineralMan]

12. As long as you quote me out of context, without linking to

the post where I wrote something, I will not comment on such quotations. Context always matters. If you wish to comment on something I have said in a post, reply to that post and I will respond. Out-of-context quotes are useless. For example, in the post above, nobody knows what "such skills" means. In context, it's quite clear, but you have failed to include the entire context and have not linked to the post that contains that context.

In any case, this has nothing to do with my current statement about the heart being merely a pump. It's completely off-topic. My reply here is only about the topic of this thread, which deals with "the heart."

[guillaumeb]

14. Your comment was off topic in that it avoided the actual substance of the post. eom

[AtheistCrusader]

18. First step in solving a problem, is admitting you have a problem.

[guillaumeb]

19. Agreed.

[yallerdawg]

11. Ironic, isn't it?

[guillaumeb]

15. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

We are not supposed to recognize what is happening. Our inability to think critically is a factor here.

[marylandblue]

13. Yeah but you have like a thousand hearts right now

and they wouldn't look as good if they were brains. Plus all those brains would probably argue with each other.

[MineralMan]

16. Well, not that many, surely...

However, that is an interesting thought. Maybe Skinner should have a brain give-away as a fund-raiser. That would be interesting. People could give other DUers a brain to indicate that they think that person posts intelligently.

We could do that fund-raiser, perhaps in commemoration of Darwin's Birthday, perhaps.

As for those donated hearts, while I appreciate the sentiments they represent, they're kind of embarrassing, really. Still, my thanks go out to those who sent them.