Did Archaeologists Just Prove the Existence of Prophet Isaiah?

[DonViejo]

A stunning article published Thursday announced that archaeologists have stumbled upon the first physical evidence of the existence of the prophet Isaiah.

CANDIDA MOSS
02.22.18 12:01 AM ET

If you asked people whom their favorite biblical prophet is, there’s a strong chance they would answer Isaiah. Sure, Moses gets all the accolades, received the tablets, and is the most important; but Isaiah is the prophetic book most quoted by authors of the New Testament. For Christians, Isaiah predicts the coming of the Messiah, the death of Jesus and the Virgin Birth. So, it is particularly auspicious that in a stunning article published today in Biblical Archaeology Review archaeologists announced that they have stumbled upon the first physical evidence for the existence of the prophet Isaiah.

The evidence itself comes in the form of a small piece of clay (an impression left by a seal), a mere 0.4 inches long, which appears to bear the inscription “Isaiah the prophet.” It was unearthed as part of excavations of a previously undisturbed pile of debris at the Ophel excavation in Jerusalem. The dig is headed by Eliat Mazar who provides a description of the discovery, significance, and translation of the seal in an article published in this month’s issue of BAR. The debris contained figurines, pottery fragments, pieces of ivory and some clay seal impressions, known as bullae. These impressions were created when the owners of the seals stamped their seals into the soft clay and include the mark of King Hezekiah, previously reported here at The Daily Beast.

According to Mazar, “alongside the bullae of Hezekiah… [were] 22 additional bullae… among these is the bulla of “Yesha‘yah Nvy[?]” which is most straightforwardly translated as “Isaiah the Prophet.” Given the importance of Isaiah to religious history, this seal impression is of great significance to Jews and Christians alike.

According to the Book of Isaiah, Isaiah was an eighth century BCE prophet during the reign of King Hezekiah (one of the few “good kings” who ruled Judah before the Babylonian conquest. In the book of Kings, Hezekiah is described as second only to King David). Isaiah began prophesying during the reign of King Ussiah and appears to have lived through the reigns of Kings Jotham, Ahaz, and the first fourteen years of the reign of Hezekiah. He is responsible, among other things, for the earliest biblical description of heaven, which he saw in a vision (Isaiah 6). Many scholars think that Isaiah’s vision of God enthroned in the heavens laid the groundwork for subsequent descriptions of heaven.

more
https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-archaeologists-just-prove-the-existence-of-prophet-isaiah

[gibraltar72]

1. It is tragicomic how far people will go to

hang onto a myth that somehow validates their psychosis.

[MineralMan]

2. Well, maybe. According to one article, the

site where this was supposedly found is compromised in terms of the layering of the objects. That presents a real problem, since it makes it impossible to accurately date the non-carbon-bearing objects.

An imprint that says Isaiah the Prophet might be actual evidence, but without dating information, it could just be an imprint referring to well-known name. Probably impossible to say.

Was there a prophet named Isaiah? Probably there was. Is this impression evidence of that? Uncertain, and likely to remain uncertain.

[yallerdawg]

3. It is tragicomic.

Convincing oneself that nothing in this traditional historical record of the Jewish people can be considered a factual account because it goes against one's belief that "the Bible" is a work of fiction.

This is the proper application of "reason" and "logic?" Standard confirmation bias?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

16. Historical record?

You mean "historical." Cause the slaves in Egypt thing ain't a thing. The wander the desert thing. Um-hm.

[guillaumeb]

26. And comparing religion to psychosis.

Remind me again of how intolerance is a feature of theism.

[yallerdawg]

32. It's extremely offensive, too.

No problem, though.

It's just "Christians."

[guillaumeb]

34. Speaking of offensive:

Look at this one:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/123055976

So when anyone talks about respectful dialogue, I will link to this one.

[yallerdawg]

36. Sometimes I'm amazed at what is allowed to stick around at DU.

If this had been targeted at Jews or Muslims?

[guillaumeb]

37. And if a similar thing were to be published about non-theists,

the outcry would be loud.

I actually linked to this to 2 of the frequent posters here. No response from either of them about it.

[yallerdawg]

38. A hard lesson for hopeful people to learn:

[guillaumeb]

39. Agreed.

I just posted about (possibly) overly sensitive theists with a link to 2 threads.

[yallerdawg]

40. We call that...

"pulling an M & M!"

[guillaumeb]

41. I have been accused by a certain few of this offense.

But when non-theists engage in the same behavior, it is acceptable.

Signed,

Confused.

[Lordquinton]

48. We believe you

[Lordquinton]

47. So when anyone talks about respectful dialogue

you will react highly disrespectfuly?

[guillaumeb]

51. Weak attempt at reframing.

But the actual posts do not support your attempt.

And not one non-theist has at this point attempted to defend the 2 linked comments. Interesting.

[Lordquinton]

50. "traditional historical record"

Yet we're idiots for taking any of it in any sort of literal sense?

Which is it dawg?

[lisby]

6. A kind interjection

I am not Christian or any other Abrahamic religion, to start, so I have no dog in this fight. However....

The Bible is a book that has its roots firmly in history. Think of it as a historical fiction novel, if you will. The setting matters to the arc of the story. In this case, with the Bible, the setting is preserved by archeology and interpreted by historians.

To scoff at a valid piece of evidence because it sheds light on the past is as bad as crying "fake news." That object exists and is fact. Now it's up to specialists in this area to put that evidence into historic context, enriching our understanding of the vanished world in which the man who stamped that seal existed--and it was just as real as the world you exist in now.

What you have just done is identical to what you are accusing believers of doing. You are rejecting fact in favor of your own world view. The "some people" you think are pathetic are actually academics, archeologists, and scholars.

Peace.

[NeoGreen]

9. Yeah..."historically accurate document"...

...right:

Camels Had No Business in Genesis
There are too many camels in the Bible, out of time and out of place.

Camels probably had little or no role in the lives of such early Jewish patriarchs as Abraham, Jacob and Joseph, who lived in the first half of the second millennium B.C., and yet stories about them mention these domesticated pack animals more than 20 times. Genesis 24, for example, tells of Abraham’s servant going by camel on a mission to find a wife for Isaac.

These anachronisms are telling evidence that the Bible was written or edited long after the events it narrates and is not always reliable as verifiable history. These camel stories “do not encapsulate memories from the second millennium,” said Noam Mizrahi, an Israeli biblical scholar, “but should be viewed as back-projections from a much later period.”

Dr. Mizrahi likened the practice to a historical account of medieval events that veers off to a description of “how people in the Middle Ages used semitrailers in order to transport goods from one European kingdom to another.”

Emphasis added.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/11/science/camels-had-no-business-in-genesis.html

[guillaumeb]

35. Speaking of historically accurate:

Here is a good example of what some feel is accuracy:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/123055976

[Lordquinton]

49. Pure disrespect on your behalf

Shameful.

[guillaumeb]

52. Pure avoidance on your part.

A poor tactic when something cannot be defended.

Shameful.

[MineralMan]

56. Why are you linking to a protected group?

Do you post there?

[guillaumeb]

57. We have already discussed this,

and we both know that it is permitted.
Better to ask what motivates such a divisive post.

[Voltaire2]

15. The Bible has a few sections that are

occasionally accurate, but in general it is pretty much ahistorical nonsense.

[guillaumeb]

17. What a very tolerant response.

So you regard religious belief as evidence of psychosis?

[Voltaire2]

19. Religious beliefs are only distinguishable

from delusion beliefs by the number of people who share the belief.

The DSM has to jump through hoops.

[guillaumeb]

22. So the two of you have a shared opinion.

Marvelous.

[Voltaire2]

23. It is an opinion backed by a lot of evidence.

[guillaumeb]

24. Again, in your opinion.

And I understand that you cherish your opinion.

[Voltaire2]

31. Well youve dragged this discussion down

to “sez you”. Congratulations.

[guillaumeb]

33. No, you and a few others insist on one type of post here.

And this one is not negative so it does not fit with what you wish to see.

[edhopper]

4. Many of the people in the Bible

especially post the founding of Judea, existed.
That does not verify anything in the Bible.
Who was Homer, and does his existence verify anything in the Iliad?

[mn9driver]

7. But the fact that Homer existed isnt really in dispute.

It would be equally cool to find something physical that could possibly be tied to him.

[Voltaire2]

12. If by isnt in dispute you mean

that it is generally accepted that there was no historical person “Homer”, then yes.

[gibraltar72]

13. You don't call the Simpsons proof?

[mn9driver]

5. Interesting.

It’s always really cool when bits of physical evidence tie in to the historicity of the scriptures. Considering how that one piece of land has been fought over for millennia, it’s amazing that anything at all has survived.

[Cartoonist]

8. Are you kidding me?

This is proof of what? Who calls themselves a prophet? Was that a legitimate business he needed a stamp for?

The first thing that came to mind when reading this was "Cedric the Entertainer". Wasn't he fortunate that his mom gave him that name?

[struggle4progress]

10. +

[guillaumeb]

18. What an interesting display of logic.

Or misunderstanding.

[Bretton Garcia]

20. "Josh the Prophet" sounds odd to me

Last edited Sat Feb 24, 2018, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)

In the Bible, "prophesy" is not a normal occupation or job, like being a clerk, or salesman, or a king. Prophets are self appointed persons with hallucinations or visions. They are skilled at oral, verbal rants, condemnations. But they are not seemingly literate.

They are precisely not clerks, writing formal pronouncements, and then stamping them with their clay seal, as proof that their writings came from themselves.

They are more like shouters, not writers.

John for instance, was a "voice crying in the wilderness." Feeding himself by eating bugs; locusts and honey. He was not a calm clerk, stamping his name quietly at the end of a nicely turned out epistle.

Maybe it was more like a stamp like one that anyone, a cleric, might use. Like one that says " In the name of Jesus Christ." Which did not signify that Jesus himself was personally stamping a letter. But rather, someone else was invoking his name.

[guillaumeb]

25. It was described as a fragment.

So in the absence of the entire piece, or more of the piece, your argument depends on your own opinion about what this fragment is.

[marylandblue]

29. Actually it appears it was a sort of profession in the ancient near east

Sort of like the Greek oracles.

[Bretton Garcia]

46. Maybe yes and no?

Good point. But still, remember that prophets were often in trouble with the establishment; the kings.

Saul and others outlawed necromancers and soothsayers and false prophets. So Jewish prophets often weren't quite as solid as oracles.

Because of many conflicts with authorities, and the people, "no man is a prophet in his own country."

[guillaumeb]

59. You completely missed the point. eom

[aka-chmeee]

11. Ok... As an individual people myself, if asked,

I guess I would probably have to answer Tyler the Creator. Not because I like hip-hop, because I abhor it. But I have to grant credit for his audacity. Did someone named Isaiah decide he was a prophet almost 3000 years ago? How can I doubt it? We still have charlatans trying to pull the same scam now.

[gibraltar72]

14. Great place to go for comedy relief.

How much of the bible has to be a lie to make the whole thing a fiction.

[trotsky]

21. So strange.

For believers who are so insistent they don't need things like reason and observation to support their beliefs, they sure do seem to crave whatever little bit of validation they can stretch from something like this.

[Mike Nelson]

27. Lol...

...it proves only the physical existence of... a piece of clay! Someone could have named their dog "Isaiah the Prophet" and buried him there.

[Sneederbunk]

28. It is things like this that keep atheists awake at night.

[edhopper]

30. Why

At some point after the founding of Judea, the people in the Bible were based on real people.
How does that verify any of the religious components of the book?
If this is somehow proof that the Bible is accurate, how do the fictional characters like Noah, Abraham and Moses fit in?

Do the obviously fictional myths keep believers up at night?

[progressoid]

42. It's things like this that atheists titter about as they fall asleep at night.

[NeoGreen]

43. Centurian, why do they...

...titter so?

https://coub.com/view/q447

"Just some...uhhh...Jewish joke, sir"

"Jewish Joke" on us all?

[progressoid]

44. Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this.

[Mariana]

45. Have atheists told you that things like this keep them awake at night?

You wouldn't just make shit up about people you don't know, would you?

[guillaumeb]

54. Well, on that subject,

some posts here equate theism with psychosis. And call Catholics overly sensitive imbeciles.

[guillaumeb]

53. Nightmares? eom

[Binkie The Clown]

55. I found a very old scrap of paper that had, partially obscured, the words "the Hobbit Bilbo".

Draw your own conclusions. I, for one, believe wholeheartedly in Middle Earth, and this scrap of paper does nothing but support my beliefs.

[guillaumeb]

58. How old is that scrap of paper?

[Binkie The Clown]

60. Oh, it could be thousands of years old. Who knows. Nobody knows, but people say it is. nt