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Thu Mar 1, 2018, 12:14 PM

When your child resigns from Mormonism

From the article:

When my daughter stopped going to the LDS Church, she was 13. It was a long, complicated battle.....

She didnít believe in the church anymore. Sheíd tried to go to her friendís church for a few weeks, but she just couldnít. She didnít believe in God. She was an atheist.....

....... your children just keep telling you more and more things you canít tell them to do. They are who they are and they let you know in small and big ways every moment that you have not created a new version of yourself. They donít exist in order for you to redo your own life and get things right.
Yes, it is a rejection. But it is also a new creation. Her life. Her world. Her terms. And my job is to embrace all of those parts of her, even this one that is difficult.


To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2018/02/27/when-your-child-resigns-from-mormonism/

Speaking as a parent, I understand the author's feelings and agree with the conclusion that our role as parents is partly a custodial one, but only until the child is grown enough to make decisions. And children are not copies of us, they are others. We must respect them and their decisions.

37 replies, 1776 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply When your child resigns from Mormonism (Original post)
guillaumeb Mar 2018 OP
yallerdawg Mar 2018 #1
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #2
yallerdawg Mar 2018 #4
marylandblue Mar 2018 #13
edhopper Mar 2018 #14
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #8
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #22
trotsky Mar 2018 #3
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #9
trotsky Mar 2018 #12
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #16
trotsky Mar 2018 #17
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #19
trotsky Mar 2018 #20
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #21
trotsky Mar 2018 #27
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #28
trotsky Mar 2018 #29
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #30
trotsky Mar 2018 #31
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #32
trotsky Mar 2018 #33
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #34
trotsky Mar 2018 #35
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #36
trotsky Mar 2018 #37
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #23
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #24
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #26
redstatebluegirl Mar 2018 #5
Mariana Mar 2018 #7
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #10
Cartoonist Mar 2018 #6
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #11
Act_of_Reparation Mar 2018 #15
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #18
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #25

Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 12:44 PM

1. The notion that our children are merely brainwashed automatons...

when it comes to faith, belief and religion can be dispelled by every adult - including the vast majority of Atheists!

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." - 1 Corinthians 13:11

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:15 PM

2. Yes indeed this child grew up and rejected

the idiocy of religion.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:50 PM

4. OR you never received the gift of faith.

Like billions of others.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 05:54 PM

13. Or they received the gift of doubt

Which only the few with eyes to see can understand.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:45 PM

14. I know you are only half serious

but I have heard that from so many hard core Christians and it makes me throw up in my mouth.

It is such a condescending attitude. It comes from such surety about who God is and what God wants.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:29 PM

8. And if I reframed your response,

and substituted atheism for the word religion, as happens in China to some Chinese youth, what would your response be?

By calling religion idiocy you are defaming every believer and calling them idiots. Is this not a divisive group attack?

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:10 PM

22. Which explains the vast number of new christians in every generation of islamic countries

and vice versa.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:37 PM

3. "only until the child is grown enough to make decisions"

So with regards to religious indoctrination, why isn't that courtesy extended to children in the first place?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:30 PM

9. What courtesy?

If you are a parent, do you or did you guide your own children?

All socialization is indoctrination.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 04:20 PM

12. "All socialization is indoctrination."

No it isn't.

I'm just wondering why you think it's OK to teach a child a religion before they are old enough to question it.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:22 PM

16. Socialization is the learning of group norms.

Indoctrination is a more loaded term.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:24 PM

17. They are different words with different meanings.

We've been through this before. In other news, have you heard from your good friend rug lately?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:28 PM

19. Semiotics is an interesting field.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:34 PM

20. But not nearly as interesting as observing hypocrisy and duplicity in action.

Have a good weekend, you outstanding fine Christian! You go right on showing what it is you believe your religion is all about!

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Response to trotsky (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:39 PM

21. So judgmental.

When I attain perfection, perhaps I shall judge also.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 6, 2018, 01:09 PM

27. Just observant.

And it doesn't take keen observational powers to see it.

If only Christians could behave like they *think* their religion teaches. Or perhaps most of them think their religion is OK with hypocrisy - maybe that explains it. Who knows.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 03:24 PM

28. It takes even keener power of observation to recognize when one is at fault.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #28)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 03:31 PM

29. Are you blaming others for your behavior?

How sad.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:09 PM

30. Not at all.

And not what I said or implied. Read it again.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:16 PM

31. Oh but of course.

It's always someone else's fault when you aren't able to properly express yourself.

Praise unto you for continuing to interact with pitiful morons like me who find it so difficult to parse your wonderfully worded posts.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:18 PM

32. Allow me to give a clue:

Remove the beam...etc. Apply that admonition to what you wrote.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:20 PM

33. Oh yeah, that's a phrase from YOUR religion.

Perhaps YOU should apply it, then.

I'm going to continue to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Please proceed.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:23 PM

34. And I will continue to point out hypocrisy also.

But sometimes when a person is so busy pointing out the hypocrisy of others, they fail to notice their own failings.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #34)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:28 PM

35. One doesn't have to be perfect to point out hypocrisy.

And it doesn't excuse your hypocritical behavior, as you are attempting to do.

What does it mean to you to be a Christian, gil?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #35)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:29 PM

36. I am excusing nothing. Simply making an observation. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #36)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 06:31 PM

37. Uh huh.

You go on behaving exactly like you think a Christian should. That's all I ask.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:11 PM

23. Please don't abuse the word 'guide'.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:11 PM

24. PLease do not abuse the word abuse.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:13 PM

26. If you think it's not abuse, you should at least first obtain consent and a safe word.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:01 PM

5. My parents were Catholic and Presbyterian.

We were raised in the Catholic Church but went with Mom once in a while to the Presbyterian. My Mom was adamant that we study various religions and make a decision for ourselves, they said they would support us. Dad not as much as Mom, I think he resented the fact that Mom gave us a choice, he never had one, he was rounded up and taken to Church twice a week and then forced to go to Catholic school. My brother is a practicing Catholic, my sister is Presbyterian and I am the black sheep Unitarian.

I think kids need to find their own spiritual path, whatever that may be, and even if that means no belief. Forcing kids to believe certain ways almost always backfires on you in some way or another.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:21 PM

7. Forcing kids to believe certain ways

works, most of the time. Few children who are indoctrinated into religion early in life deviate from the religion of their parents when they are grown. Children of Christians, for example, may pick different flavors of Christianity, but they tend to remain Christian. They aren't likely to become Muslim, or Hindu, or Santerian, or atheist.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:31 PM

10. Well said. Agreed. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:09 PM

6. So is 13 cool with you?

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:32 PM

11. I would not set any number in stone.

Trump at 72 is far less mature than were my children at 10.

And you?

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 11:04 AM

15. I disagree with her conclusions.

The entire article is about the author trying to overcome their own inflamed sense of aggrievement. She gives no indication that she understands, or that she wants to understand, why her daughter would leave the church. In the end, she isn't dealing with her feelings so much as she is trying to ignore or deny them. That doesn't usually work.

What does work, I think, is empathy.

My best friend is Catholic. He works with the Church in Japan. For a while, he was entertaining the idea of joining the priesthood. Despite our obvious differences with respect to religion, and the Roman Catholic Church in particular, we've been more or less inseparable since we were in middle school. We still manage to see each other at least once a year.

Seem an unlikely friendship?

It works because he doesn't just accept my position, he understands it. He's not convinced my position is correct, but he understands completely how I got there, and he understands completely how I feel about being there. He's not stifling some personal upset that I left the church while he stayed. He genuinely does not seem to be upset at all.

I am glad the author isn't disowning or ostracizing her child, as sometimes happens to young atheists who come clean to their families. I am glad she wants to continue having a relationship with her child, and I'm sure her child is glad for that as well. But I would advise her to take it a step further, to try empathizing with her daughter. To try to understand why she made the decisions she did.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:27 PM

18. I have a few friends who are atheists.

I understand the thought processes that led them to their conclusion, or the tentative conclusion of one who seems more agnostic than atheist.

I also have some friends and relatives who are politically conservative. The same applies as what I wrotte above.

And I thought your reply was outstanding, especially the focus on empathy.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:12 PM

25. Oh good. You still can't remember what agnostic and athiest mean.

How many times does it have to be explained to you?

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