HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Religion (Group) » 10 Reasons to believe Jes...

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:37 PM

10 Reasons to believe Jesus Preached Islam

From the article:

Muslims believe Jesus Christ was a holy Prophet from the same God who sent Abraham, Moses and Muhammad. Here are 10 reasons as to why Muslims believe Jesus preached Islam that are guaranteed to change your perception................

#10 The Golden Rule
There is an Islamic version of the “golden rule” as taught by Prophet Muhammad.
None of you has faith until he loves for his brother or his neighbor what he loves for himself. Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 72
Jesus taught:
Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12





Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/askamuslim/2017/10/10-reasons-believe-jesus-preached-islam/#K1V8HcQc1mkgXmHa.99

A long article, but it well illustrates the many commonalities of the 3 Abrahamic religions.

143 replies, 7061 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 143 replies Author Time Post
Reply 10 Reasons to believe Jesus Preached Islam (Original post)
guillaumeb Mar 2018 OP
Sophia4 Mar 2018 #1
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #2
braddy Mar 2018 #16
marylandblue Mar 2018 #21
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #28
d_r Mar 2018 #5
Mariana Mar 2018 #17
braddy Mar 2018 #19
Mariana Mar 2018 #20
marylandblue Mar 2018 #22
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #29
marylandblue Mar 2018 #30
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #31
marylandblue Mar 2018 #32
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #33
marylandblue Mar 2018 #34
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #35
marylandblue Mar 2018 #36
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #39
marylandblue Mar 2018 #40
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #43
marylandblue Mar 2018 #44
Mariana Mar 2018 #37
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #41
marylandblue Mar 2018 #45
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #62
marylandblue Mar 2018 #67
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #69
marylandblue Mar 2018 #71
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #72
marylandblue Mar 2018 #73
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #74
marylandblue Mar 2018 #75
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #92
marylandblue Mar 2018 #96
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #99
marylandblue Mar 2018 #106
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #107
marylandblue Mar 2018 #108
marylandblue Mar 2018 #139
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #121
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #79
Mariana Mar 2018 #86
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #89
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #80
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #110
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #118
Mariana Mar 2018 #46
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #95
Sophia4 Mar 2018 #49
Mariana Mar 2018 #53
Sophia4 Mar 2018 #60
Mariana Mar 2018 #61
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #81
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #82
marylandblue Mar 2018 #57
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #83
marylandblue Mar 2018 #85
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #88
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #90
marylandblue Mar 2018 #91
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #58
braddy Mar 2018 #23
Mariana Mar 2018 #26
Sophia4 Mar 2018 #48
Mariana Mar 2018 #77
Sophia4 Mar 2018 #78
marylandblue Mar 2018 #87
Glorfindel Mar 2018 #3
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #4
marylandblue Mar 2018 #12
Sophia4 Mar 2018 #50
flyingfysh Mar 2018 #6
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #8
Igel Mar 2018 #38
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #42
Bretton Garcia Mar 2018 #52
vlyons Mar 2018 #7
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #11
marylandblue Mar 2018 #14
vlyons Mar 2018 #24
Binkie The Clown Mar 2018 #9
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #10
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #54
safeinOhio Mar 2018 #13
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #15
left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #18
vlyons Mar 2018 #25
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #55
vlyons Mar 2018 #59
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #27
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #56
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #64
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #65
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #66
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #68
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #70
eallen Mar 2018 #47
RainCaster Mar 2018 #51
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #63
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #84
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #93
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #97
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #100
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #102
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #134
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #136
The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2018 #76
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #94
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #98
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #101
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #105
marylandblue Mar 2018 #113
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #123
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #109
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #114
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #125
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #127
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #128
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #129
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #131
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #122
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #126
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #130
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #132
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #137
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #120
marylandblue Mar 2018 #112
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #115
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #133
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #119
marylandblue Mar 2018 #138
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #140
marylandblue Mar 2018 #142
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #143
sprinkleeninow Mar 2018 #141
Brainstormy Mar 2018 #103
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #104
Act_of_Reparation Mar 2018 #111
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #116
Act_of_Reparation Mar 2018 #117
guillaumeb Mar 2018 #124
AtheistCrusader Mar 2018 #135

Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:42 PM

1. Jesus was born before Mohhamed, so it is more likely that Mohammed tried to borrow

 

from Jesus.

I think Hillel also said some of the things that Jesus said, but I am not an expert on Hillel.

Mohammed, however, lived after Jesus so if anyone copied anyone, it had to be Mohammed copying Jesus.

Mohammed fought and was responsible for killing people.

Jesus did not fight or kill anyone.

Jesus lived his message of love as far as we can tell.

Mohammed was responsible for killing people -- not a very loving thing to do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:47 PM

2. The word Islam means peace.

Many have killed in the name of Jesus and Mohammed.

Mohammed stated that violence in the form of self-defense is acceptable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:18 PM

16. Mohammed created Islam and then became a warlord general to advance it, he and the army that

he led didn't seem peaceful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:56 PM

21. Jesus suggested not even defending yourself

Major difference there, one among many.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:22 PM

28. He did not defend Himself.

Mohammed stated that self-defense and group defense were allowable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:58 PM

5. I agree that

Jesus was first and Mohammed referenced him, rather than Jesus practicing Islam.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:19 PM

17. Jesus physically attacked people

who had offended him, with a weapon he constructed for that purpose. John 2 : 15

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:41 PM

19. Once, when he made a scourge of small cords and drove out the money changers from the Temple.

John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to braddy (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:52 PM

20. Yes. I was answering the claim

"Jesus did not fight or kill anyone." The story says he did fight some people. Someone who committed the same violent and destructive acts Jesus is said to have done would be arrested and charged with multiple felonies, if it happened in our time and place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:01 PM

22. Since it happened a week before his crucifixion.

and assuming we can accept any part of the story is true, it's likely he was arrested for his attack om the temple rather than for blasphemy. He had been going around for a while preaching and was probably thought of as a crank, but once he committed violence, he had to be dealt with. Same as today. It's legal to be a religious nut but not to whip people in The National Cathedral.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:24 PM

29. Jesus' actions at the Temple interfered with the sale of animals for ritual

sacrifice, and interfered with the money lenders. It was not the attack itself, but what he was attacking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:37 PM

30. Right , because if he had only attacked small shopkeepers

in Nazareth, nobody would have minded at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:38 PM

31. He was attacking a system.

And Jerusalem was the site of the Temple. Jesus had an excellent feel for what would gather maximum attention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:40 PM

32. Much like Trump in his own way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:41 PM

33. Jesus had better hair. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #33)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:43 PM

34. We don't know that because we have no pictures

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:44 PM

35. He could not have worse hair.

Hair weaves and grafts were unknown in His day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:46 PM

36. ok, you win.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #36)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 09:58 PM

39. A first.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 09:59 PM

40. Enjoy it. It may be a last as well

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #40)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:08 PM

43. Nice.

As long as no blood is spilled.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:18 PM

44. Please! those are fencing foils!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 09:15 PM

37. He violently assaulted human beings with a weapon

and destroyed their property, because their actions offended him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:05 PM

41. What it says is:


And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And he told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.


It does not say that Jesus struck the moneychangers with the whip, it says he drove them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:31 PM

45. The crime of assault does not requiry you actually strike a person

Turning over the tables would be vandalism or theft. And driving away oxen a week before Passover would be like putting someone else's car in neutral and pushing it down a hill into a crowd standing outside a church, literally on Palm Sunday.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #45)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 06:52 PM

62. And marching for peace or other causes can inconvenience traffic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #62)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 07:03 PM

67. I never saw any peace marcher cracking a whip

Or disrupt a church bazaar with the excuse that it was his church now and everyone else should get out. Yet what Jesus did was much worse and it forced the Jewish authorities to act. To add torment to injury, his followers spent 2,000 years justifying his crime and blaming the descendants of those who tried to preserve order for stopping him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #67)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 07:06 PM

69. An interesting exercise in hyperbole.

However, that is all that it is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #69)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 07:39 PM

71. No, it's just a matter of reading the story for what it would mean to people who lived it

Not from the perspective of later generations who have to maintain the fiction of a sinless man-god. I have never met a Christian yet who actually understood how this story would have been perceived by the people there, yet if I did such a thing in a church on Sunday, they would surely have me arrested.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #71)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 08:19 PM

72. You are attempting to frame your view as that of a typical "someone" of 30CE.

And this attempt, like all such speculative fiction, depends on you feeling that you have a special insight into the people of that time and place.

As long as you realize that this is what you did, your exercise is actually you projecting your own 21st century sensibilities and assumptions 21 centuries back in time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #72)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 08:40 PM

73. I don't feel I have any special insight into people of that time and place

But somehow I think in any time or place, if you walk into a place of worship or business and drove people out with a whip, you might get some people mad at you, or worse. Is there some particular time or place you are aware of where this was considered acceptable behavior?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #73)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 09:14 PM

74. Again, you are imagining what people from 2000 years ago might have felt.

This act also has a symbolic component. A component that was partially echoed when the 95 Theses were nailed to the Cathedral door in Wittenburg. Another act of vandalism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #74)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 09:58 PM

75. You have the most ahistorical imaginings I've ever seen

Last edited Sat Mar 3, 2018, 10:30 PM - Edit history (1)

You make any interpretation you want and call anyone who disagrees "too literal." But anyone who makes a different interpretation is "projecting," and doing "speculative fiction."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #75)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:31 PM

92. Your posts are speculative fiction.

They consisted of you imagining how people from 2000 years ago would have reacted. I mentioned the act of vandalism committed when 95 theses were nailed to the door. That symbolism echoed Jesus' actions in the Temple. Perhaps you missed that symbolism, and the reference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #92)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:47 PM

96. church doors were used as bulletin board in those days

Not an act of vandalism and nobody saw it as such. Your interpretation is ahistorical. On the other, you seem to be imagining that in the ancient world, people actually might not have minded being driven by whips.


https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/what-was-luther-doing-when-he-nailed-his-95-theses-to-the-wittenberg-door

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #96)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:00 PM

99. Luther caused tremendous disruption to the existing social order.

And your speculation about the whip incident relies on you determining what actually happened and proceeding to build from there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #99)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:21 PM

106. Usually you say people take the story too literally

So it seems everyone is either too literal or not literal enough.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #106)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:28 PM

107. You decided on one interpretation.

If the words said "Jesus whipped the money changers" I would understand your point, but you speculated and proceeded to build a case fro what you feel could have happened.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #107)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:33 PM

108. You are taking the story too literally and speculating at the same time

If the story said, Jesus drove them out, but didn't hit anybody, made sure everyone got their money back, reunited them with their animals, and they agreed he was right, I would understand your point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #107)

Tue Mar 6, 2018, 12:51 AM

139. As I said, you are taking it too literally

And when someone else does that, you object loudly. Also you miss the point. Whether it was drove, whipped, smacked, or magically made their feet move, it was not a nice thing to do, and in every other society that has ever existed, forcing people out of a sacred space without sanction from religious authorities was regarded as illegal, and they arrested him less than a week later, a week when they were apparently looking for him, so it's not a baseless speculation that this was the immediate cause of his arrest, or at least a contributing factor.

The point of the story is apparently to show that there was a new religious authority in town, with new rules, and I think many Christians would agree with that without hesitation. But that doesn't mean the people he drove out liked it or accepted it, and I think many Christians would agree with that too.

Of course, Judea around 30 CE could be the place and time where most people actually liked being driven out of their sacred space by whips, but that would be baseless speculation on your part, and I know you would never do that, would you? Maybe they were really into sadomasochism, you know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #106)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:40 PM

121. Hay now. I'm the culprit that says peoples take some Scripture way too

literally. And then fall down, go boom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #73)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 01:57 AM

79. Temple of GOD. Munye changers conducting BUSINESS in THE HOUSE OF THE LORD.

Plus, Who was Jesus at that time, was the 'God'- 'man'.

He operated in a con-fusion of two natures.

But fully God and fully man. 'Theanthropos'.

He had human qualities. Cut Him a break.

He dint whip an'body. He got incensed and rightly so.

Those who were doing 'business' in His Temple were no doubt REPUBLUCRES! 😈

Thank you and good nite.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #79)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 10:59 AM

86. Do you believe Jesus preached Islam? nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #86)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 03:51 PM

89. I hold that Jesus preached the Kingdom of God. His Kingdom that primarily was to come.

First to the Jews of whom many received and became the first believers. Then to the Gentiles, non-Judaic believers. If you are a 'believer' in 'God', you're part ways there.

He may seem to incorporate beneficent teachings that some see as other traditions of 'faith'. Belief systems other than of 'Christian'.

St. Paul preached Christ to many and somewhat assimilated into their culture while not corrupting or adulterating the true message.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #72)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 02:02 AM

80. They want Jesus to have whipped a human being. That's what they want.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #80)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 11:25 AM

110. Well, no, that would presume he existed at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #110)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:03 PM

118. Here we go. 🙄

That would be according to the Scripture being discussed. He whipped 'em/he didn't' whip 'em.

If you presume He didn't exist at all, then no need to fret.

"Dr. Livingstone, I presume?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:32 PM

46. So he only threatened to strike them, if your interpretation is correct.

They must have believed he would do it, since they were frightened enough to run out and leave their money behind. The story indicates it was a violent expulsion, either way. There isn't the slightest suggestion that Jesus first asked them to leave, and explained to them why they should do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:41 PM

95. Nowhere does it say that He struck them.

I understand that your point depends on this happening, but your desire has nothing to do with what is recorded/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #37)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 01:42 AM

49. They were desecrating the temple of his religion.

 

The Bible does not say that he assaulted human beings. It just says he assaulted animals. It would not have been necessary for him to assault human beings.

It is interpreted as suggesting he threw the tables of the money changers over.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 05:25 AM

53. For centuries, most of the artists who have depicted the scene

have shown Jesus attacking the human beings with his whip. It is true the stories are less than crystal clear, so there is plenty of room for interpretation. The idea that he only beat the innocent animals, and carefully avoided striking any people, seems to be pretty new. Who knows, maybe that is the correct one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #53)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 01:23 PM

60. You don't have to use a whip on people to get them to move.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #60)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 02:08 PM

61. That is true.

Threatening to use it on people will generally get them to move.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #53)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 02:05 AM

81. That's what happens when you look at 'those' pictures.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #53)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 02:09 AM

82. He carefully avoided the cute innocent animals and smacked the

dirty clique of money changing traders in His House.

Oy veh.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 09:46 AM

57. Actually, he was desecrating the temple of THEIR religion

They were carrying out a century's old practice sanctioned by the highest religious authorities so that graven images of Caesar did not enter the holy sanctuary. Walk into a church bingo game today, start snapping a whip, and you'll soon find out who is desecrating a church and who isn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #57)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 02:11 AM

83. I thot you were cool with some of this stuff...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #83)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:14 AM

85. Oh I am cool with it, but what did Jesus seem like to his contemporaries?

He must have seemed crazy to many of them.


Mark 3:21
"When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #85)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 03:37 PM

88. To the carnal 'eye', senses and 'thinking' there was/will be

things that are received/processed carnally.

When one 'sees' with spiritual 'eyes' and 'reasons' with or has 'understanding' by the spiritual 'intellect', 'things' ARE different as how they are received/processed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #85)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:21 PM

90. Why, why, why with literal translating ALONE, Sola Scriptura, does not give one the full picture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #90)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:29 PM

91. I don't think anyone really does do sola scriptura

Last edited Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:47 PM - Edit history (1)

They are just operating within an alternative tradition without acknowledging it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 09:48 AM

58. See charlie hebdo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:03 PM

23. Jesus brought authority to his Temple. Mohammed raised an army and warred and conquered once he

created Islam, after living a life of being a rich peaceful merchant , even taking and giving sex slaves and committing mass be-headings.

Jesus and Mohammed's lives are both the perfect example for their respective followers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to braddy (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:16 PM

26. I wasn't making a comparison between the two.

I was rebutting a very specific incorrect claim, that's all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 01:39 AM

48. Actually, that verse is ambiguous.

 

Jesus Cleanses the Temple
…14In the temple courts He found men selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and money changers seated at their tables. 15So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle. He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those selling doves He said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn My Father’s house into a marketplace!”…

http://biblehub.com/john/2-15.htm

Did he whip anyone? That verse does not say he did. It merely says he drove "both sheep and cattle" from the temple and overturned the tables of the money changers.

He did not kill anyone. It is questionable whether he merely drove the sheep and cattle or people out with the whip.

Christians, based on other teachings of Jesus, do not believe that he whipped the money changers or the men selling their cattle, sheep and doves.

I wasn't there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #48)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 01:11 AM

77. It depends on which translation you're reading

whether it says he drove out the animals, or drove out the people and the animals. The KJV mentions the people being driven out, as do some other popular versions.

Of course, we weren't there. Neither were the writers of any of the gospels. The different translators don't agree. We really are reduced to guessing, aren't we?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #77)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 01:35 AM

78. Yes. But in my opinion, what is believed by the followers of a religion may be more

 

important about the religion than what the person credited for starting the religion really said or did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sophia4 (Reply #78)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 12:37 PM

87. I think you are right

Religion isn't about the foundational texts so much as the interpretation of those texts, which often changes from generation to generation. Followers of a religion may not realize how much things change over time, but I think it's a good thing overall, or we'd still be burning heretics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:49 PM

3. "A discussion on Jesus teaching on Muhammads prophecy"? Oh, please.

That's even worse than saying that Thomas Jefferson was inspired by the life and times of John F. Kennedy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Glorfindel (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:52 PM

4. Jesus taught a religion of peace.

The root of Islam is istaslama, meaning to submit. And salaam means peace.

But the article discusses the obvious similarities between the message of Jesus and that of Mohammed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:12 PM

12. This is called the "root word fallacy"

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Meaning_of_Islam

That it is a fallacy is not in dispute among linguists although many theologians still use it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Glorfindel (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 01:43 AM

50. Right. But many people don't know history. I was trying to be nice.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 06:59 PM

6. what kind of Chrisitianity did early Islam come in contact with?

People forget that a major branch of Christianity at the time was Arian, which is now called a heresy. This branch maintains that Jesus was not divine, but was God's highest creation. At one time the majority of Christian theologians were actually Arian. The Nicene Creed was an attempt to squelch the differences. The Arians decided that if you understood the phrasing just right, they could in fact agree to it. Many passages such as "Why do you call me good? There is none good but God." can be read as Jesus denying divinity. Of course, there are others, including the entire book of John, which reads the other way.

Several years ago the Moslems produced a movie intended to explain Mohammed to the West (the entire movie was done without actually showing an actor playing Mohammed), and it shows an episode where Mohammed was fleeing his pursuers, and found refuge with a local Christian king. The king tells the pursuers that Mohammed's ideas and his own Christian ideas were very close to each other, and tells them "Not for a mountain of gold would I give him up to you". If this Christian were Arian, this makes sense; the churches in that area tended to be Arian.

The name Arian comes from a priest in Alexandria, named Arius, who disagreed with his bishop Anastasias, who subscribed to the idea that Jesus was divine. The Arians lasted for hundreds of years, and gradually died out. The exact history here is something scholars know about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flyingfysh (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:03 PM

8. A good question.

Much of the time the early Muslims were fighting against the dominant polytheistic tribes in what is Saudi Arabia. I will look into this and I hope you do also.

And yes, the Council of Nicea was convened to standardize Christian beliefs.

But in this article, the author is speaking of the many similarities between the messages of Jesus and Mohammed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 09:34 PM

38. And yet at the same time there were a variety of Xians around.

As well as Jewish communities in Arabia.

Some of the Xians on the outskirts might have still observed OT holidays and something like kashrut. Others, probably not so much. Arianism was around but mostly a European thing by Muhammed's day. Muhammed didn't get much to Europe.There were a lot of peripheral heresies and Constantinople's sway didn't extend into a lot of the Xian hinterland. Sourcing Muhammad's theology in that way is considered a really bad thing by Muslim scholars, and was considered a sort of bad thing by a lot of sympathetic scholars in decades past.

Look at the state of Qur'aanic criticism. Exegesis, sure. But to try to source it, pull it apart to find various authors and editors, find changes made over time and really bad transmission errors or misinterpretations is not a path to academic or personal longevity. Textual variants are few, homogeneity is enforced, and we have yet to see a critical edition of the Qur'aan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Igel (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:07 PM

42. There were and are numerous sects in all 3 of the Abrahamic religions.

I have only lightly read the Quran, certainly not enough to speak about it, but there are numerous variants testifying to numerous interpretations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flyingfysh (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 05:13 AM

52. Muslims say Mohammed's father-in-law was a (Christian?) priest

So he learned about Christianity from one of his wives, and her family.

To me, from the Quran, it sounds like a pretty generic Christianity. Though maybe a little (Greek?) Orthodox. The prophet didn't want to call Jesus the "Son" of God. Holding to the more conservative Old Testament, non-trinitarian view of a God with no conventional son beside him.

For Islam, Jesus or " Isa," is a great prophet. But not the son of God.

So that explains M's higher level of violence over Jesus: greater residual attachment to the Old Testament. The Old Testament God was MUCH more violent than Jesus.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:01 PM

7. Jesus was influenced Mahayana Buddhism

Assuming that there was a historical Buddha, of course. The Great emperor Ashoka spread Buddhism throughout Northern India, The Himalayas, and throughout Pakistan and Afghanistan. When Alexander the Great made it to Ghandahar (modern day Kandahar in Afghanistan), he left several Greek philosophers. Alexander opened the Silk road to Greece and the Mediteranean. Hinayana Buddhism influenced the Greek stoics. By the time of Jesus, Mahayana Buddhism had been spread throughout the countries accessible via the silk road. So it is entirely possible that Jesus could have had contact with altruistic philosophy in his youth. His father, Joseph, was a "carpenter, who probably found work building the city and port of Caesarea for Herod the Greek. So it is entirely possible that Buddhist ideas and philosophies were circulating in the Levant in Jesus' time.

Hinayana Buddhism is concerned with liberation from suffering by developing personal virtue and self control over thought, speech, and actions. Mahayana Buddhism is concerned with altruistic actions for the benefit of others, compassion for the sufferings of ohers, patience, and tolerance.

Behaving virtuously and generating compassion for others is not the exclusive domain of any one particular religion or belief system. Many many people throughout history have concluded that altruistic behavior ultimately benefits themselves and benefits the family, the local community, and the tribe/nation.

I consider Jesus to have been a great Boddhisattva. I don't think that he was a divine being, who resurrected after death and defyed gravity and flew up to heaven. Mohammed didn't defy gravity either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:08 PM

11. Compassion for others is indeed key.

And it is key to peacefully living in a group.

And that peaceful living is conducive to group survival.

But violence is used to control others.

I think that Jesus, and Mohammed, and everyone share in the divinity of the Creator. As the Friends, say, there is a spark of the Creator in each of us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:16 PM

14. Possible, but is there any historical evidence of Buddhist activity in Judea?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:10 PM

24. I'm not advocating that there were Buddhiist temples and monasteries in Judea

I doubt that either Roman or Judean authorities would have tolerated Buddhist temples with Buddha statues. But Buddhist ideas and philosophies are another matter. I'm advocating that Buddhist ideas about refraining from extreme selfish behavior and altruistic compassion for others were circulating as a result of the spread of Buddhism in Asia and along the silk routes. Greco-Buddhism had already been operative for 300+ years by the time of Jesus. We know already from the writing of Aristotle and the Greek stoics emphasized the virtues of moderation in all things (temperance), prudence (wisdom), courage, and justice.

See info about Greco-Buddhism at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism. Some of the Greco-Buddhist statues of Buddha draped in Greek robes are quite lovely.

Greco-Buddhism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gandhara_Buddha_(tnm).jpeg

See Greco-Buddhist influence on Christianity at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_influences_on_Christianity

This is just my belief that I share for your consideration.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:04 PM

9. Nah. Jesus (if he existed at all) was likely a Buddhist. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:06 PM

10. Retcon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 09:32 AM

54. I had to look that up.

Indeed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:14 PM

13. It all goes with the job.

Here’s a book for you. Jesus and Lao Tzu The Parallel Sayings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to safeinOhio (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:17 PM

15. Showing that the message of tolerance and peace is universal.

But some continue to use violence as a means of control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 07:32 PM

18. Similarities Between Buddha and Jesus

A number of recent books have proposed the idea that Buddha and Jesus are practically brothers.
Close to the end of 'Living Buddha, Living Christ' Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh asserted,
"When you are a truly happy Christian, you are also a Buddhist. And vice versa."

https://buddha-christ.info/similarities.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:15 PM

25. Well no, that's not so

Although many religions share similar ideas about compassion and virtuous living.

To formally be a Christian, you must first be baptized.

To formally be a Buddhist, you must take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.

Of course, you can practice Christian and/or Buddhist teachings without undergoing the formalities.

I'm a happy Buddhist, but I'm not very fond of Christianity, especially the established Church. Buddhism is not a religion. It is a non-theistic practice. You can be a Christian and practice meditation, but you cannot be a Buddhist and believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, original sin, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to vlyons (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 09:36 AM

55. Hush. Theists are desperately trying

to find some reason to continue believing in their lifeless gods. Have some compassion. Let them wedge their failed beliefs into any shoe that even remotely fits.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #55)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 10:01 AM

59. Sorry, but no again

As a Buddhist, I want to keep my vows, one of which is not to lie. Human beings seem to want to create and believe in the fictions of deities. It so much easier and gentle on the ego to blame "outside," "other" agents for our suffering.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 08:20 PM

27. The commonality of every system that promotes tolerance, mutual respect,

and group cohesion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 09:43 AM

56. Cars are not airplanes.

Common elements of systems do not make those systems equivalent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #56)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 06:56 PM

64. It makes them all religious systems.

My point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #64)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 07:00 PM

65. At which point youve reduced your claim

to a meaningless tautology. Great point. Well done. All religions are religions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #65)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 07:02 PM

66. Did you read the entire article?

If you did, you read the point.

If you did not read the article, that is another matter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #66)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 07:03 PM

68. sure, run away from yet another blunder.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #68)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 07:07 PM

70. I thought as much.

I also skim articles and titles, but I refrain from commenting when I do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 11:37 PM

47. Islam was invented centuries after Christianity

Yes, of course, Muslims tried to coopt and displace Christianity. Just as Christians tried to coopt and displace Judaism. And just as Judaism tried to coopt and displace earlier religions.

That is how religion works.

Are there commonalities among the three Abrahamic religions? Of course. And that means nothing except that they are historically related.

The Abraham myth remains one of the ugliest ever invented.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 03:00 AM

51. Number 11: Bill Maher said it is true

Of course not. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but this is a silly argument.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RainCaster (Reply #51)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 06:55 PM

63. A long article, but it well illustrates the many commonalities of the 3 Abrahamic religions.

I felt that the article was interesting and it provides a short list of the commonalities between the 2 religions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #63)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 02:25 AM

84. And along comes Christianity and co-opts Judaism.

Whaaat?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #84)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:32 PM

93. A surprise to some here?

Who could have imagined.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #93)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:53 PM

97. Some soitenly have a repertoire with no end. It appears thus.

Guillaume, mon frère, mon ami.
Ie suis fan de tois. Très! Mucho grande!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #97)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:03 PM

100. I liked the article as well.

My guess is that some did not read the actual article but proceeded to comment based solely on the title.

They might be surprised to discover that there is no character named Carol in Dickens' A Christmas Carol.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #100)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:06 PM

102. Oh, you. 🤗

Yours truly,
Majorly Cheerleader 💙

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #102)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 07:01 PM

134. So what is the sub-text here?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #134)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 07:07 PM

136. I admit I'm lost hopefully only in this place of 'religion'.

'Carol Christmas'. 😉

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 10:49 PM

76. Variations of the golden rule appear in religions that predate Christianity

by centuries and are unrelated to the Abrahamic religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism, Confucianism and Zoroastrianism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #76)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:35 PM

94. True. It is common to all human societies.

And given that all human societies rely on people respecting boundaries of other members of the tribe/country/clan, that is not surprising.

I am certain that Neanderthal humans and earlier hominids also practiced the golden rule.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #94)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:58 PM

98. Oh my DOG!

Jes' contemplating where we may have 'evolved' from. Cave people. Yikes. I don't relish that picture. "Hunny, whut's fer supper tanite?" Eew.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #98)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:05 PM

101. The caves in Lascaux.

Artistry, and the same impulse to create that reflects that spark of the Creator.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #101)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:15 PM

105. Alright. That's more better. Artistry by some 'originals'. Like!

Last edited Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:34 PM - Edit history (1)

As a opposite member of the male gender, envisioning some stuff is yicky.

As more highly evolved 'humans' presently, wot
short-circuited resulting in the neanderthal landing in our peoples' house?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #105)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 12:36 PM

113. The problem with those cave paintings

Is that we don't know what they were for. Anthropologists think they were used in religious rituals but that's an educated guess at best. And even if they were used in rituals, we definitely don't know what kind.

A general "artistic impulse" is not evidence for anything other than we have certain impulses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #113)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:57 PM

123. Please see my take on this in another post I think I responded to you

somewhere over here in this place....

If, as I do believe, God is All in All, He planted His likeness, not image, in all Creation from the beginning. A better and more understandable translation of "In the beginning..." would be: "in principle" or "in essence". Orthodoxies love that word essence!

🎼"I'm late. I'm late. For a very important date..."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #101)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 11:18 AM

109. Showing once again that there's nothing you won't claim as the property of your religious tribe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #109)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 03:54 PM

114. Showing once again that you will not miss an oportunity

to deny the role of religion in the human experience.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #114)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:36 PM

125. It would be fine if you didn't pretend it applied to all humans.

If you kept your beliefs to yourself/your fellow travelers, that would be a non-argument.

Instead, you keep trying to extend the property rights of your claimed god, to me. (And others.)

Please stop.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #125)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:40 PM

127. If it applied to all humans we would not be having this conversation.

So your claim is a bit bizarre.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #127)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:43 PM

128. My mistake.

You actually scoped it for all species that create.

Artistry, and the same impulse to create that reflects that spark of the Creator.


I do not recognize your claim of a creator, nor do I recognize your claim of a supernatural reflection of the process of creation upon reality.

At the end of the day, you are simply asserting to my face (and everyone else) that we owe something to your god.

Wars have been fought over less.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #128)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:45 PM

129. Are you aware that what I wrote is an opinion?

If you are not aware, allow me to say that it is my opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #129)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:54 PM

131. And I have replied with mine.

Turtles all the way down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #109)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:43 PM

122. I yam a descendant of The Tribe of Yeshua/Issa. No text.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #122)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:37 PM

126. Neat. I am not.

You and he are free to believe you are a reflection of your creator.

I am not. Others like me, assert we are not. Please leave it at that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #126)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:48 PM

130. "Please leave it at that."

I do, I did, I will. Whatever you want.

Y'all can say stuff, but 'we' cannot.

I sincerely am not offended.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #130)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:57 PM

132. Have I told you, you are not created by your god?

Not believing in your god myself, and refusing the claim of religious people that their supernatural god has some sort of stamp upon me (my heart according to the Abrahamic faiths, which I assert is a fluid pump and nothing more) is not the same as telling you YOU aren't, and YOU don't. I've made no claim upon your nature.

I simply refuse your claim upon mine. Don't play the wounded animal. If I was 'y'all can say stuff', I'd be saying a good deal more, and no passer-by would mistake it for anything else.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #132)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 07:14 PM

137. I am not offended.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #101)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:30 PM

120. Oh, 'spark'.... Thas where the sparky snarky retort has its source in.

Guillaume, mon frère. J'e t'adore.
Chin chin! 🍷🍷

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #98)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 12:13 PM

112. Gil always wants to tie prehistoric religion into his Cristianity

Last edited Mon Mar 5, 2018, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Which I think is odd because prehistoric religions were very different. May not have had gods at all, just various spirits to be appeased. But it's all theism as far as he is concerned.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #112)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 03:55 PM

115. Perhaps you should reread what I wrote.

Or perhaps you are responding to what you felt was the sub-text.

Or more properly, what you imagined to be the sub-text.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #115)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 07:00 PM

133. The subtext was clear, and this is not the first time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #112)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:22 PM

119. First off, one practicing/following/studying not only the Christian Faith, its origins, its organic

root(s), but also ALL of Scripture and accompanying texts, has understanding that the belief in A Creator Who is Eternal, Who is All in All, (I could go on), 'used' the method He did in developing the life that we have acquired and know today.

I hold that He allowed EVERYTHING, including all various pagan, gods & godless, tree-stump worshipping, etc. RELIGIONS to come into being as a stepping stone to the fullness of time when Jesus the Christ Incarnate appeared on this earth, completed His ministry, accomplished why He was sent, and returned to the Heavenly Kingdom.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #119)

Tue Mar 6, 2018, 12:38 AM

138. Well, that's at least a clearly stated position based on existing literary tradition

The trouble with guillaimeb is that his positions are often very unclear and offer unproven opinions as fact, unless they are faith, but at any point might be converted back to facts again, but never at any point are any of his opinions in doubt. In this particular instance, I am offering an interpretation of the text, that appears to be at least a reasonable one, even if, as a matter of Christian tradition, Christian do not hold it. Guillaimeb opposes it by using an extremely literal interpretation. He has frequently disagreed when others offer such interpretations, claiming they are being too literal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #138)

Tue Mar 6, 2018, 02:11 AM

140. I got lost in the shuffle! 😀

Please be so kind and provide the interpretation of what 'text' that appears to be a reasonable one even if traditional Christianity does not hold it? Or are you speaking in generalities?

Not the 'Jesus whips the temple attendees' one? ☺

I am only able to state or mb even cite some references expanding on the limited things I write regarding Eastern Orthodoxy.

It's intertwined and some gets deep. I said b4 I understand what I read or have read over the years, but don't have the theological background to repeat it properly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #140)

Tue Mar 6, 2018, 10:23 PM

142. This thread is getting convoluted

So I am a little lost too.

But I guess my point is that it is one thing to say, as you did, that Jesus should be understood in the context of everything that came before and after. That's fine.

But guilliameb is very confusing because he keeps switching context. He assumes the cave paintings are religious. Fine but there is no evidence of that. At another point he takes it as proof that religion always existed. At yet another point, it's proof not just of religion, but theism. And if you dispute that, it stops beings evidence, and becomes just an opinion, without an evidence needed because it is an opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #142)

Wed Mar 7, 2018, 12:09 AM

143. I access DU via phone which doesn't have full effect as a pc.

Last edited Wed Mar 7, 2018, 01:59 AM - Edit history (2)

I lost my way in this thread.

I can only answer for myself, to the best of my limited ability, as I have admitted.

If, as a 'believer', you come to an understanding
that, bc you acknowledge 'God', you have enlightenment that He, as having no beginning, and as 'having the' and 'being the' creative force of everything that had, or has or will continue to have being, 'in simplicity'-» He was, is and continues to be in all. There is no 'time'/instance when He never was.

And so, as plainly as I can express, if He has been in all since 'in principle'/Genesis, He arranged for all the worship of gods, goddesses, sun, moon, stars, 'tree stumps', etc. to prelude 'in the fullness of time' the Incarnation. As a 'believer', I hold this things did not take Him by surprise. I hold it was deliberate. But not a reason to confuse His Crown of Creation, humankind.

Cave drawings, etc. can 'hint at' those living then may have had an inner knowing of spirituality [God] that was not defined as we know 'God' presently. Like an evolution. If He is the Author and Completion of our lives, He put His being/likeness in all. So it could reasonably be that those predating us had a veiled knowledge of Him. Not all, but some may have been more openly receptive than others and did worship, but not with knowledge of Whom.

I don't know what else to say. 🤗

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #138)

Tue Mar 6, 2018, 02:35 AM

141. If one claims to be a 'Christian believer', they need to know what they believe and why.

Not just bc the preacher man told them so.

And they need to back up their believing with reasonable explanation and offer (cite) expanded historical and theological writings, texts, etc. So thus shall the inquirer seek further enlightenment on that Christian tradition of faith.

I love my Eastern Orthodox Faith. I didn't establish it. It was given to me. I can't speak or 'apologize' for other traditions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:06 PM

103. since there's not a shred of evidence that Abraham ever existed,

I'm always amused by the phrase "the three Abrahamic religions." Their true commonality is that they're all fictions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brainstormy (Reply #103)

Sun Mar 4, 2018, 07:07 PM

104. I accept that you see them so. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 11:53 AM

111. It illustrates the commonalities by allowing one of them to take ownership over the rest?

Jesus didn't preach Islam. Islam preaches Jesus. This might sound pedantic, but if ecumenicalism is the goal here, taking ownership of other peoples' shit is not the way to go about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #111)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 04:02 PM

116. The title is, I believe, poetic license.

The author speaks of commonalities, and of Jesus prefiguring the Prophet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #116)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 04:36 PM

117. I doubt it.

Islamic dogma has long maintained that Islam is the true religion revealed to Abraham by God, that Judaism and Christianity are corruptions of Islam. The author's phrasing makes sense in this context. If Islam is the true religion and Christianity is the corruption, then the teachings of Jesus mirrored in the Qur'an must be "true" and must therefore be Islamic, not Christian.

This doesn't really read like an ecumenical article, either. It's more like proselytizing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #117)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 06:27 PM

124. I did not find it so. But I understand your view. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #116)

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 07:01 PM

135. The only commonality I see is a predeliction to 'That thing you have, is mine'.

Basically; stealing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread