Religion
Related: About this forumHistorically speaking, what is the ONE reason we know about John or Jesus
or the bible, etc?
What historical proof (not questioning the proof, want to know the timeline, etc) is there that John existed and the he wrote the bible or whoever did.
How does that story get from 2000 years ago to now, I guess is how I am asking, what ONE person is responsible for the fact that we even talk about a "bible" or Jesus, John, etc?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,670 posts)in the early days.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)I just wonder if there is any point where there is a gap and stuff could have been invented, so to speak.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)and written down 20 to 50 years after Jesus' death, with additional changes to the text for centuries after that. Because the original stories were oral, there is no one person who is responsible for them. The main exceptions are some of Paul's letters. Many scholars believe at least some of them were actually written by Paul. But Paul never met Jesus, so he too was relying on stories.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)OK, adds some clarity for me. tx
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)The New Testament letters were probably written down from the beginning, but not necessarily by the person they are ascribed to. In the days before printing and copyright, it was very common to write in someone else's name.
Old Testament is also mix of things, some originally oral, some written and again with uncertain authors.
edhopper
(33,567 posts)written soon after the time of Jesus, that the Gospels are based on.
sprinkleeninow
(20,235 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,670 posts)of the 27 books of the New Testament. The Old Testament already existed as a compilation of the sacred texts in the Jewish tradition. There is still no consensus among Christian denominations regarding which writings comprise the Bible, or who wrote most of them.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Unless you count the time the Holy Poltergeist whispered into his ear after a 3 day bender.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,670 posts)Most of the Bible is derived from oral tradition and assorted legends and is full of internal contradictions, which makes it tricky for literalists to explain.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The Christian biblical canons were written decades if not more than a century after the death of Christ, and not by those in which they are attributed to.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The problem early Christians had was it was most decidedly a Jewish sect and male membership required the absence of a foreskin per Mosaic law. During a time of no antibiotics or anesthesia, this made the price of membership quite high as there was a good chance the highly painful procedure would result in death or pieces falling off.
Paul brought the gentiles to the party, foreskin intact, along with the resulting Greek and Roman wealth which bankrolled the early church.
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)Thank the Roman church for that. They're the ones that created the biblical canon by assembling, editing and compiling a story from all those different accounts.
They're the ones that kept it alive and began spreading it everywhere.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)MineralMan
(146,286 posts)It's a very complicated story, actually. There's lots of material on the growth of Christianity from the very early churches to the behemoth it is today. You can get started at this link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity
Other links from that article will take you to many other aspects of the story. It's a long, long story, so there's lots to learn.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)life after death and something to look forward to.
I cant get "The Invention Of Lying" movie out of my head, Ricky Gervais, if you haven't seen it, you must. I would love to believe.
ExciteBike66
(2,336 posts)At one point (I think) it was the only game in town for Christianity.
Voltaire2
(13,008 posts)With many different authors, most written long after the alleged events.
The Roman state and religious authorities decided which of the many existing books or gospels were acceptable, those became what is now known as the New Testament or the canonical gospels. This was in the 4th century CE. The rest is history. The Old Testament is essentially the Torah and it has its own history.
IphengeniaBlumgarten
(328 posts)Voltaire2
(13,008 posts)I really didnt want to get into the details of what the Christian OT is derived from.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Babylonian, Egyptian...
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)It took centuries for the New Testament as it is today to emerge. Different local congregations had their own ideas of what the New Testeament was. There were many MANY gospels, stories of apostolic acts, epistles and apocalypses in circulation. Some of the preserved canons even contain literature that no longer exists.
edhopper
(33,567 posts)and making Christianity the religion of the Empire is a major reason it survived and flourished.
struggle4progress
(118,275 posts)to try to gather more public support for himself. There were a many converts to Christianity in the Roman world before the time of Constantine
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)I have no idea what he really believed. Christianity was a minor religion when he came to power. But I think he saw in Christianity a potential source of unity for his empire, and began laying a framework for Christianity to become the dominant religion. Most of the following emperors were Christians, with varying degrees of interest in enforcing Christianity as THE religion of the empire.
edhopper
(33,567 posts)But still a major reason for Christianity's prevelence.
Jim__
(14,074 posts)Ohioboy
(3,240 posts)( This is Ohioboy's wife speaking)
There really isn't any proof that Jesus existed, historically or archaeologically. Josephus the historian does mention a Jesus, but we don't know if it's the same one. The gospel of Mark is the oldest gospel, nobody knows who really wrote it. The gospels of Matthew and Luke are thought to have used Mark as a source; they're called the synoptic gospels for that reason. John's gospel was written later. Nobody knows who wrote those either.
The Bible as a collection of books was written by a whole bunch of different people, and there are books and gospels and letters (epistles, like those written by Paul to the different Christian congregations of the first century) that are not considered "canonical" that is, they didn't make the cut when, in 325ce, the Council of Nicea decided what books should go in and which not. If the Bible seems to agree with itself in any way, it's because these guys made that happen. There are also the Early Church Fathers, who came along a generation after the disciples, like Clement of Rome, Ignatius, and Polycarp. They all had an influence on what Christians believe today.