Religion
Related: About this forumThe physical universe is real.
It can be seen. It can be measured. We are part of it, if only a minuscule part. We know some of its rules, but not all of them. We can study the universe and attempt to understand it better, because it is real and available for study.
We do not have to have faith in its reality. It surrounds us and we are bound by its physical laws.
The same cannot be said of deities. They have none of the characteristics of the physical universe. Therefore, I conclude that they do not exist. I cannot believe they exist. They have no observable reality.
cilla4progress
(24,725 posts)Tolle...
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)hear all the sounds around you. Nor can you smell all the odors around you.
Not that there is a deity but to rely on limited information that you get from your senses is limiting.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)limited senses. We're very good at that.
safeinOhio
(32,661 posts)the fewer deities are required.
But, each to their own.
Kablooie
(18,625 posts)Dieties can be seen and even touched if they are given in cash.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)I can see it and measure it. I am a part of it. I know most of its rules, and I can study it in an attempt to understand it better. In fact, I often perform experiments in Minecraft to observe how the world reacts.
So I would argue that the term "real" could be taken to mean observable, establishing a repeatable, consensus view among observers of the same world; measurable, producing identical, repeatable measurements by different observers, and stable, in the sense that in the absence of actions taken to modify the world, it persists between observations. These characteristics also apply to many instances of virtual reality.
We use the term "virtual reality" to refer to a subset reality created in and embedded within a superset reality. We can observe that this hierarchy of realities is at least two levels deep, but we cannot assume that it is at most two levels deep. It follows that the precedent set by the existence of a two-level hierarchy of realities implies the possibility that a third level of reality exists, and that this reality that we call simply "reality" is, in fact a subset reality, created in, and embedded in a superset reality.
The dreaming virtual reality exists only because the higher lever waking reality contains a brain that generates the dreaming virtual reality. The computer generated virtual reality exists only because the higher level "real" reality contains a computer that generates the subset virtual reality. We could imagine, by extension, that this "real" reality which we occupy exists only because some mechanism exists in a higher, superset reality, which generates this reality. There is no violation of cause and effect, and no invocation of mystical or magical thinking. This is simply an engineering hypothesis.
And just as your dreaming self cannot perceive the superset reality of waking reality, or observe, detect, measure or test the hardware/software (brain) that creates that subset reality, so it would not be possible to perceive, observe, or otherwise measure or test the superset reality of the particular subset reality which we inhabit.
The scientific method is a powerful tool when used within the context of a single level of reality. But it fails when we try to apply evidence for one level of reality to a higher, subsuming level of reality. It would make no sense to try to deduce the nature of "real" reality by making tests in the Minecraft virtual reality. Likewise, it would make no sense to try to deduce the nature of the superset reality in which our reality is embedded by making tests in our reality.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)Of course you can observe the pixels it creates, etc.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)and it also occurs spontaneously sometimes. It's called lucid dreaming.
Likewise, there are theories that the universe is a hologram in a higher order universe. These theories produce testable hypotheses. If true we can identify some of the properties of this other universe.
All prescientific gods were assumed to interact with the universe. Even well into the scientific age, this was assumed, at least as a starting point. Only when no evidence for such interaction was found did theologians turn to unfalsfiable versions of God beyond any testing.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Especially since it is a prominent feature of all religious traditions. Even today, there is no shortage of people claiming messages from God, faith healing, sightings of supernatural beings etc. It seems these things would leave their mark somehow.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)And the only "marks" they seem to leave in in people's imaginations.
Stories of sightings are not marks, they are stories.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Your post only demonstrates your own personal opinion and belief.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)Please describe your experience.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)Everything I write on DU is my opinion. You appear to keep forgetting that.
What else would it be?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I dont know there isnt a china teapot orbiting between Mars and Venus either. I suppose if my standard of believing in something was lack of evidence against it, I could imagine an infinite number of things.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)What's the difference between Jesus and garbage?
Garbage is real and has value.