If you knew that who you are would completely cease to exist after death,

[MineralMan]

would that change how you live your life? As an atheist, that's what I think will happen to me. It was one of the things I realized that my lack of belief in anything supernatural meant. No paradise. No Hell. Just the end of existence for me.

People sometimes use Pascal's wager to put questions in non-believers' minds. "Are you willing to bet you won't end up in Hell?" they ask. But, there's nobody around to take that bet, and no way to get paid off if you're right. It's a stupid wager. A sucker's bet.

The converse of that silly wager is the question I'm asking in this thread, really. What if this life is all there is? That's what I think. So, is the life you're living right now good enough? Is it satisfying enough? If it all ends when you take your last breath, was it the best life you could have lived? I guarantee that you'll reflect back on your life at some point. What will you see? Imagine that's all there is.

That's another wager. My assumption, of course, is that it all comes to an end when I die. There's no evidence whatever for that not being the case. So, that makes every day more important to me. I came to that realization at age 20. It's something I think about often. If I've wasted a day, that is one day from which I did not benefit. If I did something hurtful on a day, that's a day I failed to live as I think I should.

What that concept did for me was to heighten my awareness that mindfulness was a very important thing. How I live, what I do, and how I treat others affects me now, not sometime after I'm dead. I get one shot at this. So, I try to live as if I knew that. I don't always succeed. There have been wasted days. There has been regrettable behavior from time to time. In sum, though, I'm OK with my life. At 72 years of age, that gets more important as I think back and forward in time. As you approach the end of life, you tend to think about such things. Unfortunately, there's not much chance to change the past at that point.

So, if you believe that some sort of pleasant afterlife awaits you, what if that's not true? Try to imagine that from time to time. If you don't wake up some nice place after you die, you'll never know that. But, you're awake now. Consider it and reflect on your life. If you do it now, it won't catch up with you later.

[plcdude]

1. Well said

Staying in the moment rather than a speculative future is critical to living well. Thanks

[MineralMan]

3. Thanks! I appreciate that very much.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I haven't a clue, which is why I call myself an agnostic,

but regardless of what might or might not happen later, if I avoid behaving like an asshole my current existence will be a whole lot more pleasant.

[MineralMan]

4. That reflects your mindfulness, then.

That's a good thing. For many, though, not behaving like an asshole is not a desirable thing. It can get in the way of piling up treasures and stuff like that.

[MFM008]

5. I get your premise

I just feel anything is possible.
We dont know one way or another.
We just go by feelings.
I feel i will see
My loved ones again somehow
Even if not in a "religious" setting.
Take the religion out of it and you still have
Spirituality .
If one dies and thats all there is
You just dont live to tell about it.

[MineralMan]

7. That is what you believe.

What if it is not so? Spirituality involves the supernatural in a similar way that religion does. It implies some "spirit" that continues. But what if that is not the case?

I maintain that an awareness of the actual final end of things is a good influence on behavior. So it seems to me, anyhow. It forces you to think about what you are doing now, not what might happen in some uncertain future. It's what drives my life and keeps me being who I am. Life without illusions is my goal.

[MFM008]

14. I agree

I think about it alot....
Back in counseling....

[Jrsygrl96]

6. No.

If I cease to exist after death, I would not live my life differently. I want to be remembered by those who are still here what kind of person I was. I am a skeptic and cynic who has a million questions about an afterlife but who still believes there is something greater than we are and physical death is not the end. I know there is more.

[MineralMan]

8. And that's a fair answer to the question.

You are still mindful.

[demigoddess]

9. that is what I used to believe, but I have been feeling ghosts since I was a child so

I know our spirits don't always die. whether there is a heaven or hell, I don't know but when my dad shows up I know we have more. At least some of us. Whatever created us gave us quite an existence, but I don't think we are required to pray to it, or build churches or study the bible. All of those things were created by humans to control us. I'm 70 and looking at eternity one of these days.

[unblock]

10. i believe my own personal consciousness will stop when i die but i can reconcile that with afterlife

the people who knew me will remember me and what i was all about and what i stood for. they will try to emulate my good characteristics and will take comfort in my good words over the years. and perhaps they will forgive my failings.

of course, if i led an evil life, they will also remember me, though they will do it by cursing my name and trying to be unlike me.


one could think of this as heaven and hell. heaven is being remembered well, hell is not. hitler's consciousness came to a screeching halt in 1945, but who wants to be remembered as one of the worst human beings ever?

i won't be around to know how people will remember me, but i do give it thought while i'm alive, and i try to live my life with how i'll be remembered in mind. to me, this is a big part of what gives my life meaning.

some people hear me say this and they hear god or the holy spirit or whatever in what i'm saying.
i don't, but i recognize that these are not incompatible, at least if you're not hung up on literal or extreme versions of such things.

[Doodley]

11. Do you care about what you leave behind? Do you have family that you care about and that you

want to be okay after you have gone? Do you care about future generations? Do you care about the state of the planet and the environment? Do you want to be remembered? If so, why? It either all ends when you die or it doesn't?

[MineralMan]

17. How did you get that from what I wrote?

I said nothing about any of that. How I live my life affects others, so that's important to me. How I live life affects the environment as well. That's important to me, as well. How will I be remembered? Well, I think, by the people I know and love. Thinking about what I talked about is why I live the way I do. That's the whole point of what I wrote.

[Doodley]

20. I only asked questions. Thank you for the answers. I am sure you will be remembered well,

and I base that on your DU discussions.

[grumpyduck]

12. Maybe a slightly different way to look at it

This is prompted by the passing last week of our cat Burt, who was with us for about twelve years. He was friendly, playful, curious, funny, and all the stuff that cat people love to talk about. We are missing him something fierce.

In Catholic school, we were told that animals don't have a soul, and of course we believed it. Once they're gone they're gone. But for us he's not gone: we remember him every day, and the main reason we remember him and are devastated is the way he was and the way he behaved, i.e., his life. He affected us when he was here and he still affects us now.

So to answer your question about ceasing to exist (and coming from a Catholic), Burt hasn't ceased to exist for us -- for the ones who are left behind. He left us with some very happy and funny memories, and that wouldn't be the case if he'd been a royal asshole. So yeah, you and me may cease to exist personally, but what we did here will remain.

And for me that's another reason to reflect on my life.

[Doodley]

15. I am sorry you lost your cat. What you illustrate is that we are not just the sum of our parts.

[MineralMan]

18. Yes, we all make a mark on others as we live.

Mindfulness helps us make a memorable, good mark. Any immortality I have will be due to the memories others have of me, along with whatever writings I've left behind, as long as they survive and are still being read.

I've buried many cats during my life, and remember them all as the unique little feline personalities that they were. They live on in my mind, even if they have ceased to exist in theirs.

My post was actually about mindfulness, not the question of an afterlife.

[Mariana]

13. Pascal's Wager isn't the 50-50 proposition that it's claimed to be.

First, it presumes you can just decide to believe something you don't believe. That's silly. The best you can do is pretend to believe, and that wouldn't fool any god worthy of the nane.

Second, suppose you can just decide to believe. Then you have to pick which god(s) you're going to decide to believe in. There are so many to choose from that the odds of selecting the right one(s) are slim indeed.

Third, you have to conclude that the god(s) you've decided to believe in deserves worship. There are lots of proposed gods out there that, even if I believed they were real, I wouldn't worship under any circumstances.

Fourth, what if the god(s) you've picked don't promise an afterlife? Then, in the context of Pascal's wager, why bother?

Fifth, even if you've successfully willed yourself into believing the god(s) exist and are worthy of your worship, you then have to worship it the right way. Good luck with that, with all the divisions and branches and varieties of just about every single religion out there, all of them sure they're correct and everyone else is doing it wrong.

It seems like even if this cushy afterlife exists, your odds of getting there are pretty close to zero no matter what you do.

[Goonch]

16. I Believe the simplest explanation is,

There is no god. No one created the universe and No one directs our faith. These leads me to a profound realization that the there probably is no Heaven and no Afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe and for that, I am extremely grateful. - Stephen Hawkings

[MineralMan]

19. Yes. Hawking expressed it well.

His ideas will continue to affect us for a very long time. He left an indelible mark during his life.

[Doodley]

21. He said he was "extremely grateful." To who? To the universe? Seems kind of spiritual.

[MineralMan]

22. To his parents? The doctors who helped him live so long

with a disease that kills most early in their lives? For his good fortune to have been born in the time he was? For his early teachers? For the support he received while doing his research? Lots of things to be grateful for.

That seems simple enough.

I'm grateful, too, for many things and for many people who have been part of my life. Aren't you?

[Thekaspervote]

23. There have been some wonderful books out over the years on that very concept

Stephen Levine “A Year To Live” - saw him speak more than once. He truly lived what he believed