Sam Harris Podcast #125 - What is Christianity?

[NeoGreen]

https://samharris.org/podcasts/what-is-christianity/

What is Christianity?

In this episode of the Waking Up podcast, Sam Harris speaks to Bart Ehrman about his experience of being a born-again Christian, his academic training in New Testament scholarship, his loss of faith, the most convincing argument in defense of Christianity, the status of miracles, the composition of the New Testament, the resurrection of Jesus, the nature of heaven and hell, the book of Revelation, the End Times, self-contradictions in the Bible, the concept of a messiah, whether Jesus actually existed, Christianity as a cult of human sacrifice, the conversion of Constantine, and other topics.

Bart D. Ehrman is the author or editor of more than thirty books, including the New York Times bestsellers Misquoting Jesus and How Jesus Became God. Ehrman is a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity. He has been featured in Time, The New Yorker, and The Washington Post, and has appeared on NBC, CNN, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, The History Channel, National Geographic, BBC, major NPR shows, and other top print and broadcast media outlets. His most recent book is The Triumph of Christianity.

[Duppers]

1. Bookmarking.

Thanks.

[Major Nikon]

2. What is interesting is the discussion in how reasonable and intelligent people are indoctrinated

Not surprisingly the process involves the erosion of critical thinking typically from a very young age or some other point of vulnerability.

[guillaumeb]

3. Do you consider yourself to be indoctrinated?

[Major Nikon]

4. Use your google to look up the definition of that word

And you’ll have your answer.

[guillaumeb]

5. You misunderstood the question.

Or wished to avoid answering.

[Major Nikon]

6. I answered your question in the exact manner you answer questions

...and still you complain. Kinda funny how that works.

[guillaumeb]

7. So you agree with and support my behavior?

[Major Nikon]

8. Absolutely

Don't let it be said I'm not down for a good chuckle.

[trotsky]

9. Gil has definitely provided a lot of laughs at his own expense.

The best part is how he doesn't even realize it. Or maybe he does, since he's admitted his entire act in here is just that - performance art - playing to throngs of believers who cheer him on via personal messages, or so he says.

[Major Nikon]

14. The best part about having imaginary friends is you always bring your own fan club

I can certainly see the attraction and the benefits speak for themselves. The only cost of entry is self-delusion.

[MineralMan]

11. Do you, guillaumeb?

Are you sure?

[guillaumeb]

12. We all are.

It is also called socialization.

[Major Nikon]

13. As fully expected you googled the word and applied all literary possibilities

...while completely ignoring the context in which it was used.

That’s exactly why I decided to play your game of refusing to provide a straight answer to the question posed. Had I done otherwise you would have pretended I was talking about something else and proceeded to tell me what I meant as if you know better.

[Mariana]

47. Once upon a time, not so long ago

Gil considered the use of that word extremely offensive, because, he said, it is a very loaded and negative term.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218278331#post16

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218278331#post27

[Major Nikon]

48. #5

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=283717

[trotsky]

15. "Socialization" and "indoctrination" in this context are two completely different words.

Your equivocation is definitely not going to work here.

[guillaumeb]

19. Nice try.

[trotsky]

26. OK, well, thanks for putting forth such a solid argument to support your position.

Or not.

[guillaumeb]

34. You posted nothing to refute.

[trotsky]

37. I didn't ask for a refutation.

I simply wanted you to support your statement.

You didn't. I think everyone can surmise why.

[MineralMan]

16. Socialization is not indoctrination.

The two words are not synonymous. I think you may need a better dictionary.

[guillaumeb]

17. Some reading to help clear up your confusion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination

[marylandblue]

20. You have a way of hearing what people don't mean

[guillaumeb]

21. Perhaps some people need to express themselves more clearly.

What one calls indoctrination, another calls socialization.

[marylandblue]

22. But instead of drawing out what they thought the difference was

You declared the two synonymous, when clearly there is a difference in their minds.

[guillaumeb]

23. Semiotics.

A terrorist and a freedom fighter might employ the same tactics, but who wears which label depends on who is looking.

[marylandblue]

25. There is also a difference in definition

Last edited Mon May 14, 2018, 10:15 AM - Edit history (1)

And people sometimes blur the distinction to make a political point. But that doesn't mean that an objective distinction can't be made between the two.

[Major Nikon]

31. Someone is working pretty hard to pretend doctrine isn't part of indoctrination

[guillaumeb]

35. Feel free to make that distinction.

[marylandblue]

36. The point is that you shut down discussion by ignoring when people do make the distinction.

That's not semiotics which is the study of MEANING and COMMUNICATION. But you usually ignore what people actually mean.What you do is sophistry, which is the use of empty rhetoric to win debating points.

In this case, you told me to "feel free" to make that distinction, which clearly indicates you won't so you can blur the distinction between socialization and indoctrination in order to maintain your rhetorical point. Which is what you meant and communicated, not what you said. Semiotics.

[guillaumeb]

38. You had an opportunity to elaborate on your point,

but chose to attack instead.

[marylandblue]

39. You need to feel attacked

I understand.

[guillaumeb]

40. You need to attack.

A symbiotic but dysfunctional relationship?

[marylandblue]

41. Your opinion

[guillaumeb]

42. Thus correct.

[marylandblue]

43. I see you have convinced yourself

[guillaumeb]

44. You have learned well, marylandblue.

[marylandblue]

45. I learned from the master.

[guillaumeb]

46. As did I.

[Major Nikon]

32. Semiotics script in response to use of the word indoctrination

Act 1
Claim it's the fault of everyone else as to why they can't understand your gibberish.

Act 2
Claim people are calling you names you can't cite.

Act 3
Claim people are ignoring you.

Act 4
Whine about using one word over another, as if "semiotics" is somehow relevant

Act 5
Repeat previous acts randomly ad nauseum

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=278451

[Lordquinton]

33. That's as close to properly using that word you've gotten

But I still don't understand why you keep bringing it into the conversation. I mean, semiotics can be used to look at the differences, but I hardly see how that's relevant.

[Major Nikon]

28. I meant indoctrination and not socialization

That's why I said indoctrination and not socialization.

[Major Nikon]

27. Some reading to help clear up your confusion

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/indoctrination

The belief those two words are interchangeable isn't that great in any context. The belief those two words are interchangeable in the context of religion is decidedly subliterate.

[Major Nikon]

29. The word "indoctrination" is derived from 'doctrine'

That should have been the first clue. Everyone is socialized, but not everyone is indoctrinated. For those who have been indoctrinated from their earliest days, it's probably a hard concept to grasp as close mindedness and self-righteousness comes with the indoctrination.

[MineralMan]

10. Indoctrination is widespread, at least among the young.

Some, however, and the percentage is growing, reject that indoctrination at some point. With maturity and thought, indoctrination can be overcome by strong minds. Not everyone, however, develops the critical thinking skills needed to defeat personal indoctrination. That's a pity.

More is the pity that some not only do not overcome it, but go on to perpetrate such indoctrination on subsequent generations.

[guillaumeb]

18. Do you recognize your own indoctrination?

[MineralMan]

24. I have none. I discarded it long ago.

Many throw off indoctrination and replace it with reasoned principles. I recommend it.

[Major Nikon]

30. I was never indoctrinated

Which is ironic because my father was a minister. If he was ever asked by anyone what to believe, his standard answer was you need to figure that one out on your own. He saw the value in letting me make up my own mind on the subject and put a high value on critical thinking.