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Thu May 24, 2018, 10:53 AM

How can a scientist believe in God?

Are religion and science always at odds? Here are three scientists that don't think so


Source: ABC News, by Anna Salleh

*****

Some argue that being religious is incompatible with being a scientist — but do they realize the father of the Big Bang theory was actually a Catholic priest, the pioneer of modern genetics was an Augustinian monk, or the decoder of the human genome converted from atheism to Christianity in his 20s?

*****

Dr. Jennifer Wiseman: A Christian astrophysicist.

"When I talk to people I find that most people really realise that there are deeper questions of life that science can't fully address, and they don't really see why there should be any conflict."

Dr. Andrew Harman: A Buddhist immunologist

"The Buddha was very clear that you follow a system of practice and only when you've experienced those things for yourself is your faith then justified — because it's a faith that is based on experience."

Fahad Ali: A Muslim geneticist

"I think it's a testament to God more than anything — that we can bring about all life on earth from a single origin."


*****

Read it all at: http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-05-24/three-scientists-talk-about-how-their-faith-fits-with-their-work/9543772


Over 50 per cent of US scientists surveyed in 2009 said they believed in a deity or higher power.

63 replies, 2210 views

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply How can a scientist believe in God? (Original post)
yallerdawg May 2018 OP
HopeAgain May 2018 #1
Mariana May 2018 #2
ollie10 May 2018 #3
Voltaire2 May 2018 #37
ollie10 May 2018 #39
Voltaire2 May 2018 #40
MineralMan May 2018 #42
ollie10 May 2018 #47
Voltaire2 May 2018 #48
ollie10 May 2018 #54
Voltaire2 May 2018 #56
ollie10 May 2018 #58
Voltaire2 May 2018 #59
guillaumeb May 2018 #50
Voltaire2 May 2018 #51
guillaumeb May 2018 #52
Voltaire2 May 2018 #53
ollie10 May 2018 #55
Voltaire2 May 2018 #57
guillaumeb May 2018 #60
Voltaire2 May 2018 #61
guillaumeb May 2018 #62
Voltaire2 May 2018 #63
guillaumeb May 2018 #49
NRaleighLiberal May 2018 #4
LakeArenal May 2018 #5
aka-chmeee May 2018 #6
Mariana May 2018 #7
aka-chmeee May 2018 #8
Nitram May 2018 #9
yallerdawg May 2018 #10
edhopper May 2018 #11
yallerdawg May 2018 #13
edhopper May 2018 #16
yallerdawg May 2018 #17
Nitram May 2018 #19
edhopper May 2018 #24
MineralMan May 2018 #15
Nitram May 2018 #20
MineralMan May 2018 #22
edhopper May 2018 #25
MineralMan May 2018 #26
Mariana May 2018 #32
edhopper May 2018 #34
Mariana May 2018 #35
Voltaire2 May 2018 #38
yallerdawg May 2018 #41
Voltaire2 May 2018 #44
guillaumeb May 2018 #46
yallerdawg May 2018 #23
Mariana May 2018 #18
Nitram May 2018 #21
edhopper May 2018 #27
Nitram May 2018 #36
Mariana May 2018 #31
MineralMan May 2018 #12
edhopper May 2018 #14
Voltaire2 May 2018 #43
Maine-i-acs May 2018 #28
gibraltar72 May 2018 #29
NeoGreen May 2018 #30
Lordquinton May 2018 #33
guillaumeb May 2018 #45

Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 10:56 AM

1. The expanding Universe, proven by Hubble

was first theorized by Georges Lemaitre, a Belgian priest.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 10:57 AM

2. The same way anyone else believes in a god or gods.

Who argues that being religious is incompatible with being a scientist?

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Response to Mariana (Reply #2)

Thu May 24, 2018, 11:00 AM

3. Perhaps we will hear that view presented

 

It is an argument I have heard several times

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #3)

Fri May 25, 2018, 10:44 AM

37. You've made a common mistake, frequently seen

in this forum, where somebody thinks that opinions about belief systems are about the people who hold those beliefs.

But perhaps you can provide a link to a comment here that states that being a scientist is incompatible with being religious.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #37)

Fri May 25, 2018, 01:11 PM

39. you made a common mistake, misrepresenting what I said

 

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #39)

Fri May 25, 2018, 02:11 PM

40. So no link to anyone making the claim?

And I did not misrepresent your claim, but if you think I did please restate it.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #40)

Fri May 25, 2018, 03:00 PM

42. Sadly asking for links here is rarely fruitful.

There are no links to straw people.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #40)

Fri May 25, 2018, 08:47 PM

47. No link needed...it is right here on this thread!

 

Just re-read your previous statement.

Nah, nevermind. Forget it. You obviously don't know whst you said

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #47)

Fri May 25, 2018, 08:49 PM

48. Ok why don't you tell me what I said.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #48)

Sat May 26, 2018, 04:20 PM

54. You don't know?

 

Wow.

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #54)

Sat May 26, 2018, 05:58 PM

56. I have no idea what your perception of

“What I said” is. So go right ahead and tell me.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #56)

Sat May 26, 2018, 06:12 PM

58. Think about it

 

With your superior skills

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #58)

Sat May 26, 2018, 06:13 PM

59. You've got nothing.

Quite a trap you set for yourself there.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #50)

Fri May 25, 2018, 09:01 PM

51. Post removed?

Perhaps you meant some other post.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #51)

Fri May 25, 2018, 09:12 PM

52. Read down to #9

It is not a long thread.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #52)

Fri May 25, 2018, 09:15 PM

53. Unbelievable.


Science is incompatible with religion


Those words do not mean “a scientist cannot be religious”.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #53)

Sat May 26, 2018, 04:22 PM

55. not very convincing....sounds like the gasps from a drowning man

 

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #55)

Sat May 26, 2018, 06:09 PM

57. Yes I understand that you think they are the same.

The claim was made by you that people here have repeatedly stated the scientists cannot be religious, as per the topic of the op. When asked for substantiation you came up with nothing, and somebody else posted the above nonsense, which is about the incompatibility of science and religion, but does not make any claim about scientists not being religious.

But perhaps you can provide a link to a comment here that states that being a scientist is incompatible with being religious.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #57)

Sat May 26, 2018, 06:14 PM

60. I understand your reluctance to admit that they are essentially the same.

Truly, I do.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #60)

Sat May 26, 2018, 06:18 PM

61. Except of course that they aren't.

People hold incompatible beliefs. This is not even slightly controversial, it is common knowledge.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #61)

Sat May 26, 2018, 06:32 PM

62. Agreed, we are capable of holding viewpoints and beliefs on a variety of topics. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #62)

Sat May 26, 2018, 07:12 PM

63. Including holding incompatible beliefs.

So the statement "Science and religion are incompatible" is not essentially the same as a statement that "a scientist cannot be religious".

Glad we agree on that.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 11:06 AM

4. My view - and I am a scientist - is that I don't really know much about anything

I try to be in a perpetual state of learning. Our world humbles me - looking into a dark sky at night, the amazing variety of birds, the wonder of a great relationship - I don't need to have firm answers - life is a journey of learning, adjusting, evolving.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #4)

Thu May 24, 2018, 11:16 AM

5. Good point!

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 12:07 PM

6. I've never been able to see how ANYONE can. nt

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Response to aka-chmeee (Reply #6)

Thu May 24, 2018, 12:29 PM

7. It's usually the result of intense indoctrination in early childhood.

Little children are told over and over and over again, by adults who love them and protect them and whom they trust, that this deity is real, and that it wants them to do these things, and that something very bad will happen to them if they don't believe all this. Kids are told this before they even understand what the words mean. They may receive strong disapproval and even punishment for asking awkward questions or expressing incredulity. Of course some of them are never going to question it seriously when they grow up.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #7)

Thu May 24, 2018, 01:08 PM

8. Was raised methodist but always felt uneasy

especially when the Sunday school teachers would ridicule the beliefs of other the other cults and thought how odd it was that they could make those outrageous statements about what other religions believed but still expect me to accept without question the nonsense they were teaching.
This was in the early 60's and I kept going through high school; it was just what was expected...was even in the choir (but to be fair, in that time and place, it was the only way a guy could get out of the house on a school night! Choir practice took a lot less time than I was away)
As soon as I left home, I left the church as well. Been very happy with that choice ever since.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #7)

Thu May 24, 2018, 01:49 PM

9. But I've seen it go the other way.

Non-religious people can find religion later in life. It's not always due to brain-washing. It can also be due to life experiences. Check out the life story of the French mathematician Pascal.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #9)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:15 PM

10. I consider it quite a stretch for some to continue to assert...

that (almost) every adult Christian is a mindless brainwashed automaton.

Of course, it's pointless to dispute a belief. We know what we know.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #10)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:19 PM

11. sure

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Response to edhopper (Reply #11)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:25 PM

13. Distraction.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #13)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:26 PM

16. This vvv

" (almost) every adult Christian is a mindless brainwashed automaton. "

Is a Strawman.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #16)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:30 PM

17. We could go on forever.

Nice try, but I'm done.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #16)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:44 PM

19. Ed Hopper was the implication we garnered from Mariana's statement above.

"It's usually the result of intense indoctrination in early childhood."

Your hasty judgement is indeed a good example of a strawman argument. Do you interpret Mariana's words differently?

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Response to Nitram (Reply #19)

Thu May 24, 2018, 03:31 PM

24. The same person who said this vv

"Who argues that being religious is incompatible with being a scientist?"


indoctrination is vastly different than
" (almost) every adult Christian is a mindless brainwashed automaton. "

And given her paragraph long explanation of her view, I can't characterize what dawg said any other way but a strawman.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #10)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:26 PM

15. Who has said that? Link?

I'll wait here, at least for a few minutes.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #15)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:45 PM

20. Here you go, MinMan

Mariana (6,899 posts)

7. It's usually the result of intense indoctrination in early childhood.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #20)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:57 PM

22. That's completely out of any context. Where is the link?

She could have been talking about anything. Please, at least try.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #22)

Thu May 24, 2018, 03:33 PM

25. What she said was

Little children are told over and over and over again, by adults who love them and protect them and whom they trust, that this deity is real, and that it wants them to do these things, and that something very bad will happen to them if they don't believe all this. Kids are told this before they even understand what the words mean. They may receive strong disapproval and even punishment for asking awkward questions or expressing incredulity. Of course some of them are never going to question it seriously when they grow up.


But this is characterized as saying almost all believers are mindless automatons.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #25)

Thu May 24, 2018, 03:35 PM

26. That's just so much bullshit.

It doesn't even begin to answer my question, nor to be an example of what the other person said. It's just another attempt at diversion from people who haven't a freaking clue.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #25)

Thu May 24, 2018, 05:16 PM

32. Nothing I said in that post is false.

They can hardly pretend that those things don't happen, because they do, and everyone knows it. A lot of us have experienced it first-hand.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #32)

Thu May 24, 2018, 05:59 PM

34. But I do not see you saying

(almost) all believers are mindless automatons.

Which is how they characterize your statement.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #34)

Thu May 24, 2018, 06:21 PM

35. No, I didn't say that or anything like it.

Anything, I guess, to avoid actually discussing the content of a post.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #35)

Fri May 25, 2018, 11:08 AM

38. The poster who puts snickering imbecile emojis

in his posts? That poster?

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #38)

Fri May 25, 2018, 02:34 PM

41. I won't stop putting the DU tools to use.

Please, please don't tell me you find them annoying!

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #41)

Fri May 25, 2018, 05:38 PM

44. No, you won't.

At least we agree on that.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #34)

Fri May 25, 2018, 06:24 PM

46. Reply #26

Not the same wording, however...………….

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Response to Nitram (Reply #20)

Thu May 24, 2018, 03:04 PM

23. Note - they'll run you in circles.

If you're patient, you'll soon be able to 'copy and paste' your replies!

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Response to Nitram (Reply #9)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:37 PM

18. You might notice I used the word "usually" in the headline of my post.

"Usually" means "not always".

The fact is, childhood indoctrination is very effective and it works most of the time. Most people raised as Christians remain Christian, most people raised as Hindus remain Hindu, etc. etc. etc. Relatively few of them will convert to a completely different religion, or to give up religion altogether. A Christian might switch to a different denomination, but is unlikely to give up Christianity.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #18)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:48 PM

21. Mariana, yallerdog did not write or imply that you wrote "always".

Perhaps you missed the word in parentheses: "almost." "Usually" and "almost always" are synonyms. And I personally know quite a few people who have left Christianity for Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. It is not as unusual as you seem to assume.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #21)

Thu May 24, 2018, 03:40 PM

27. splitting hairs are we?

almost always implies most, I'd infer it to mean at least 95% of the time, maybe 99%. It just leaves room for some exceptions.

He didn't say some, he didn't say a few, he actually said all and then put in a parenthetical (almost).

And that isn't even the bigger sin, it is how he (and you) misstate what Mariana said.




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Response to edhopper (Reply #27)

Fri May 25, 2018, 08:03 AM

36. sopunds like you 're arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, ed.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #21)

Thu May 24, 2018, 05:00 PM

31. I wasn't answering him, I was answering you.

Most people who are religious were raised that way. There are exceptions. I never said or implied otherwise.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:25 PM

12. Plenty of scientists have religious beliefs.

Who said that wasn't true? Other scientists do not.

Many religionists reject science. Most do not.

There are no absolutes.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 02:25 PM

14. As NDT would say

"God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance"

So they must place their belief within that pocket.

Though outside their area of study, they can believe what they want without it interfering with there work.

But of course the question would be what they actually believe.

An absent creator is vastly different than the literal God of the Bible, including all the stories there in.

I don't see a question of how can they, I wonder why do they?.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #14)

Fri May 25, 2018, 05:15 PM

43. Which is an actual interesting question.

But this thread is not that.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 03:57 PM

28. This Christian Biochemist says you can.

Who set off the big bang?
What made me smart enough to be a scientist and question the universe?

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 04:22 PM

29. How can anyone?

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Response to gibraltar72 (Reply #29)

Thu May 24, 2018, 04:26 PM

30. Excellent question...which, IM (everso) HO...

...should be paired with "Why should anyone?"

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2018, 05:21 PM

33. can scientists believe in god

>Buddhist

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri May 25, 2018, 05:58 PM

45. It is simple, not involving any intellectual rigor.

It involves acknowledging, as many scientists do, that each field requires a different approach.

Recommended.

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