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[MineralMan]

This message was self-deleted by its author (MineralMan) on Tue Jun 12, 2018, 04:21 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[redwitch]

1. This one tries hard not to hate.

So on Sunday mornings before church I try not to watch the news or think of evil people like rump and his cabal including the people who think he is Christ’s disciple. I sing in the choir and when one tries to sing songs about love and compassion while hating fiercely it comes out wrong. I don’t merely tolerate diversity, I celebrate it. As does my pastor.

[pangaia]

27. " So on Sunday mornings before church I try not to watch the news or think....." etc

Only on Sunday mornings?

What about the rest of the week?

[redwitch]

36. I watch the news. And try to do what I can to stop the pain.

I am a very active member of my town and county Dem committee and I work to get good, compassionate and talented people elected to local state and national office. I pray for compassion and also forgiveness and not just on Sunday.

[pangaia]

37. +++++++

[RKP5637]

2. In my lifetime christianity has just become another word for hatred. It's disgusting,

nothing but hatred.

[MineralMan]

3. Only some Christians hate; not all, by any means.

I know many Christians who do not have hateful thoughts about anyone, individual or group. I also know some who hate almost everyone who is not exactly like themselves.

I see hatred and Christianity as mutually exclusive, but it seems that isn't actually the case. Hence my question.

[RKP5637]

5. Yep, it's probably a broad brush I'm using. n/t

[pangaia]

30. I would say that 99.9999999% of people who call themselves Christians

are nothing of the sort.

In my view, the Christian 'religion' has almost nothing to do with "Christianity."
I think true Christianity is almost lost and what survives as a 'religion' is nothing but a simplified, watered down shadow of the reality...

A Christian, I would say, is one who is trying to understand and to live as, 'we' assume, Jesus taught. Given that, everyone is also human and subject to failures along the way..

Ok, NOW I've done it. This is why I rarely if ever post here. :&gt ))

[ollie10]

60. So you are not aware that Christians help out with food banks,

help the homeless, have participated in the civil rights movement, fight capital punishment, help out needy in the community, etc etc etc

Do I need to point it out that you are simply and totally wrong when you say that there is nothing but hatred in Christianity?

[RKP5637]

61. Please see #5. n/t

[Runningdawg]

86. They have done those things - in the past

MOST of them aren't doing them now. They no longer want the world to see them in that light, they would rather been seen as victims. To hear the newest version of Christians tell it- that "touchy-feely, kumbaya, tolerance BS" is why the world is going to hell now. I was raised in a Baptist fundy cult. I thought it was bad then, it's gotten worse.

[ollie10]

88. I don't know what planet you live on but on planet Earth they still help the homeless

Probably in your community....most of those who are helping out at the shelters are doing it because their faith teaches them that helping the poor is expected.

Please don't be so cynical! Of course there are folks who CALL themselves Christian but live their lives as if Christ had ZERO impact on them in how they act. There are lots of those. But at the same time there are lots of good decent Christians who do help out.

Maybe you don't know about them because you haven't been to a food shelter to help out where you could meet them?

[Runningdawg]

93. Been on both sides of the food shelter

It's the reason for my cynicism. I'm not going to say anymore, I've learned to pull my punches here.

[Tribalceltic]

102. I have been to the food banks

I will never ever return because of the implied "it's free but.." invitations to attend a church , Offers of "jobs" at rates less than migrant workers. "passing Tests" to see if my family was "truly hungry"

In our area only the local Pagan group Provides ( toiletries and item such as soap, razors and such)

thanks, but I'd rather be clean and starve to death

[ollie10]

103. So you don't like it that there are food banks?

hard to please, much?

are you really....honestly....saying if you were hungry you would rather starve to death than receive food? do you expect me to believe you?

[Tribalceltic]

104. Not ones run by Evil people

It is bad enough to even go to one. To be insulted and harassed at one is intolerable.

[ollie10]

105. so it is evil to give a starving person food?

give me a break

[Tribalceltic]

107. I consider it Evil.

To force a poor person to participate in a religion for food. That is the epitome of hypocrisy.

Are you claiming it's ok to force someone who is starving to become a Xian or die?

[ollie10]

108. What do you mean force them?

Do they put a gun to their head and say "pray"?

Give me a break.

This is certainly not the typical situation at a food bank. That you make it appear as if it were, is simply wrong.

There is one way for all DU religion board folks to find out if this is so....go to a food bank and volunteer! see what it is really like.

[MineralMan]

111. Some Christians do those things. That's good.

Others do not do those things. I've never seen hatred of anyone from Christian groups who do such good things. I've seen tons of hatred from those who do not, however.

You are not answering my question, nor are you criticizing Christians who hate. Why is that?

[ollie10]

114. I answered your question a long time ago

I guess you didn't read my post.

I do criticize Christians and non-christians who hate. Hell, when I have said i hate hate, some of the atheists on the board criticize me for hating the haters! So it should be clear. I hate racism, misogyny, homophobia, islamophobia, anti-semiticism, anti-christianity..... So here is the cue.... someone is going to say I am a hater, and therefore a hypocrite because I hate hate....coming no doubt from someone who has posted that jesus said hating is ok..... it is comical, actually.

[MineralMan]

116. I read very few of your posts, ollie10.

They're usually in deeply-indented subthreads that are off-topic from the original post in a thread. I do not read such subthreads, because they are often hijacking a thread.

So, do not expect me to read all of your posts. I will not read them all. I have other things to do.

[ollie10]

120. I am not going to apologize for expression my opinions on an opinion board

If you get distressed that people don't follow your topics exactly the way you intended, oh well. As I have always said, if you can, refute....

[MineralMan]

121. I didn't ask for an apology.

I simply said that I normally don't read your posts in deeply-indented subthreads. I don't find those subthreads useful or on topic. They're usually long, Yes you did, no I didn't nonsense.

I get to read what I want to read. You don't need to apologize to me. I don't care.

I do have a dog. Two dogs. I pet them frequently, which I find much more rewarding than most discussions I have with you.

[ollie10]

122. If you don't read my posts, please quit whining about them

I would rather discuss the issues rather than why you don't like me

[MineralMan]

123. Oh, dear. I think I'll read what I want and write what I want.

That has always been my practice, so I'll just continue it. As you might have noticed, I started this thread, so I'm likely to reply to posts in it.

I don't know you, so I really can't not like you. You are just words on a screen, as far as I know.

[ollie10]

124. I will too

Even if it is off topic. Sorry to offend

[Comatose Sphagetti]

4. No

[The Genealogist]

6. A lot more of what I see is a prideful attitude of superiority

I think there are a lot of Christians that are full of hate for everyone not just like them. That includes hatred of other Christians who do not hold exactly the same belief. They also hate LGBTQ people, people who have different color of skin than they do, people who don't use English as their first language, people born in certain other countries, etc.

What I personally see more of from Christians is a smug, prideful sense that they are simply superior to other people. Such Christians display almost a glee at their own self-defined sense of holy superiority. There are such Christians in my own family, in fact. My experience from many years of observation is that such Christians don't actually HATE the people on whom they look down, they just see those people as inferior. Some observers of such behavior might see it as hatred, but I don't personally think it is true hatred.

I also want to say that I see many other Christians who are truly kind, generous people who speak out against hate and bigotry. Such Christians seem to pay more attention to what Jesus said about how to treat other people than how holy and perfect they themselves are.

[JoeOtterbein]

32. I agree but it's not as much hate

as it seems more like they just despise those of us who are not as "holy" as them.

[The Genealogist]

35. I agree

I think some of them hate and use Christianity as their excuse.

A lot more do despise those who they think are less holy than they are.

[pangaia]

38. " I think there are a lot of Christians that are full of hate for everyone not just like them."

"They also hate LGBTQ people, people who have different color of skin than they do, people who don't use English as their first language, people born in certain other countries, etc. "

"What I personally see more of from Christians is a smug, prideful sense that they are simply superior to other people."

In that case, are these people actually.. 'Christian?'

[The Genealogist]

40. I don't know

I take people at their word if they tell me they are Christians.

[pangaia]

41. Hummm.. I tend to take people by how they behave, what they do...

It sounds to me like those people you describe have nothing to do with 'christianity,' not if the meaning of being a christian means to try to live as 'we' assume jesus taught.

They are no more christians than people who go around blowing up other people are Muslims.

At least, that is my take...

[Mariana]

90. Yes.

The basic tenets of most flavors of Christianity are based upon what they believe, not what they do. If someone believes Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin, performed miracles, was crucified and resurrected, etc, how can anyone say that person isn't a Christian?

As far as hating people who are different, most varieties of Christianity teach that God hates non-Christians so much he punishes them for eternity for the dreadful crime of being different. With that kind of example, is it any wonder that many Christians are so hateful?

[ollie10]

91. painting with a wide brush again, I see

[Mariana]

92. Please, tell me which denominations teach

that salvation is by works and not by faith alone. It's a short list.

[ollie10]

94. It is not really an either-or thing

Faith AND works is more like it.

And the largest Christian denomination believes that

Furthermore, Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification shows that some of the old barriers between the Catholics and Lutherans on this issue are being resolved.

To my way of thinking, as someone who has at one time in his life been both a lutheran and a catholic, if you are given grace you should be so grateful that OF COURSE you would go out there and do good things like work for justice, help the homeless, the poor, etc etc etc. There shouldn't be any question in your mind that you should do this, giving to others as you have been given. Nobody should have to tell you that this is what you do....

Others believe it is just faith alone. Just let me say I don't agree with that interpretation

[Mariana]

95. The largest Christian denomination believes that.

Yes, and its "works" include working against marriage equality, women's reproductive rights, and the use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS. They believe God wants them to do those things.

[ollie10]

96. I guess you weren't interested in a discussion of faith alone vs works, huh?

I give you a serious answer to your point and then you just change the subject.....I see

[Mariana]

117. I've never been Catholic.

So, I'm not familiar with that denomination's formula for obtaining salvation. Is doing "good works" a requirement?

[ollie10]

125. helpful hint: it's not a "formula"

[Mariana]

127. OK, what is it?

Formula:

4 : a customary or set form or method allowing little room for originality

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/formula

[ollie10]

130. to call it a formula is to trivialize it, for one

if you are looking for simple answers, or a recipe for getting into heaven, it ain't that simple.

To my way of thinking, whether you go to heaven or not is not even the biggest point....the values you live by are to live by, regardless of any reward in heaven. You do good because you want to do good, not as a get out of purgatory free card at heaven's gate. Life is a gift, and if you are grateful for it, you will want to help others, and your heart will reflect love not hate.

[Mariana]

132. Look, Ollie, I really would like to have a serious conversation.

Honestly, getting offended when words are used correctly is petty. However, I will cease to call it a formula if you feel that word trivializes it. But what does "it" mean in your headline? What would you like me to call "it"?

I completely agree with your second paragraph, except of course that I don't believe there is any such thing as a heaven or a purgatory. I like your way of thinking, but I don't see what any of that has to do with any particular religion. People of all faiths and people with no faith at all are equally likely to do good, see life as a gift, help others, and be loving.

[ollie10]

133. Not upset at all!

I simply disagree with the concept of any "formula" for salvation. If it were that simple there would be only one chapter in the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, or any religious book. Religious scholars wouldn't have pondered it for centuries and written countless treatises and books about it.

[kimbutgar]

7. Did 12 years catholic school

Was taught by nuns that Jesus is love and that to love is doing Gods work. So when I come across these religious bigots I know they are not Christians.

[JoeOtterbein]

33. I did 11 years until I got kicked out for skipping classes.

One of the proudest moments of my life!

[Major Nikon]

8. So long as god hates all the same people they do, it's all good

[LakeArenal]

9. Absolutely....

Just five minutes before they die, they can repent.. bada bing.. Salvation.

[Voltaire2]

10. The triumph of christianity from 300-600 was full of christian hate

The destruction of the old religion was not a love fest.

[Bretton Garcia]

15. Bart Ehrman's latest book?

[Igel]

11. The view from inside is not the same as the view from outside.

That layer of bubble distorts things.

Hate is fairly easy. One cannot routinely justify hatred of people. On the other hand, it's not like a Xian is perfect from day 1, and some of the problems the Xian would denounce will likely continue until death, and in some cases probably not even be noticed. The view from inside isn't the same as the view from outside. We don't see ourselves impartially and objectively.

It's putting the cart way before the horse if we think perfection is required to start being a Xian.

There's good hate, but it's not usually hatred of people. Even for folk like Hitler and Stalin, I still feel sorry for them. There's still room for compassion and a hope that, even after they did what they did, they might change their thinking. Sure, punish them for it, but there's justice and then there's compassion; the two should never be confused, and one should not take the place of the other. Sum it up, if you want, as "Jesus died for them just as much as he died for the most righteous saint." And in my belief system there's still hope for even Hitler and Stalin some day. With the Nicene creed, I go for resurrection, not an immortal soul.

"Good hate" would be hatred of wrong. That might be treating the poor unfairly, in other words, injustice. On top of justice, though, doing what's required, there's treating the poor with compassion and sympathy. But there's a lot of wrong, and it's easy to confuse hatred for a person's actions with hatred for the person, and thinking that they're beyond redemption. Not my call.

My old church "hated" a lot of people, but when the distinction had to be made, it was always couched in terms of hatred for the wrong they did and hope that they'd repent, see the error of their ways, and do what they could to make amends. At the same time, the ministers also fell rather short of the expectations they had for themselves and others and hatred for actions and views sometimes merged with hatred for the people involved.

Now, violence against those doing wrong is fine. I continue to maintain that if I had a gun and somebody broke into my house and I caught him raping my wife, shooting him wouldn't be an unchristian thing. Suffering because of a belief in Jesus and God is commended, but not suffering because somebody decided he was horny and could get away with forced sex.

But what if the wrong they're doing is moral? "It's okay to hate immigrants because, really, they're not quite human. In fact, lets clear some land and go and terrorize a bunch of them now!" Hating the actions is one thing; but doing something about the actions is also called for, and that bleeds easily in actions against the people themselves. "I love you, but hate your sin, so I'm going to punch you in the face and break your nose" stops being fully coherent at the word "punch."

There's a class of Psalms called "deprecatory." It's not a large number of them. I've never understood exactly how to understand them given the NT. I can find dodges, joy at the implication of the bad things happening to others. So if Babylon's children have their heads bashed against rocks, perhaps there's joy at what will eventually happen ... But that sort of does violence to the text and context. It's like a lot of other passages, I read interpretations and they're really grasping to make the words mean what the author already believes. On the other hand, it might just be admitting that we're human.

[Bretton Garcia]

16. Too much forgiveness for Christian sins..

...in the end encourages those sins.

That's another problem.with liberal Cbristianity.

Also too much willingness to 1) espouse doctrines like " love your enemy as yourself." While 2) slyly slipping around that, with sophistical and hypocritical justifications. Killing others with love?

Finally, liberalism would do better to turn toward atheism. As it began to do with secular government, and the constitutional separation of the state from the church.

[kwassa]

12. Not to my mind, but there is no final arbiter of who is Christian or not.

The word is defined very differently by different groups, Christian and non-Christians. To me, some who claim to be the most devout Christians are the most antithetical to the teachings of Christ.
y
all the different protestant, catholic, and orthodox interpretations that have developed over the past 2000 years show what a difficult question this is.

I would point out that the majority of mainline Protestant churches in the US are liberal overall, though many have conservative parts too. They are in general decline. Many evangelicals are in decline somewhat, too.

Many Christian groups do very good things, too. Outside of the hot button issues, Catholic Charities, and Catholic Relief Services are very important social service providers. So is Lutheran Family Services.

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. They're no less Christian than Christians who don't believe in hell.

Or Christians who accept divorce. Or Christians that don't mind fucking before the nuptuals.

All Christians are selective about what tenets they feel important enough to follow.

[Iggo]

14. Yes.

They do it every day.

[guillaumeb]

17. Can one be human and hate?

The answer is obvious.

[MineralMan]

18. Hatred is exclusively a human emotion.

It is not an obligatory one, nor is it automatically a part of every human's emotions.

Some humans hate. Not all. Christianity is supposed to be the religion of love. It is not that, of course. It fails in that regard, as seen in some Christian ministers. Not only that, but they are teaching hatred in the guise of teaching Christianity.

Hence my question.

[guillaumeb]

19. It was an argument disguised as a question.

But you are free to make it.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

26. Haters are pretenders, using JC to control wives and kids.

[JoeOtterbein]

34. I'm not sure about that. I've known dogs who really seem to hate mean people.

I have to wonder what the great apes and whales might think of us!

[Lordquinton]

20. So what's the obvious answer?

To the topic's question, not yours.

[guillaumeb]

21. Given how obvious it is,

it is obvious that the poster has an obvious agenda.

[Lordquinton]

22. So... what is it?

If it's so obvious you can just say it, right?

[guillaumeb]

23. It is far too obvious to bother saying.

And, of course, I am certain that it was obvious to you that I would answer in the obvious manner.

[Lordquinton]

24. This is so typical of you

Something you claim is so simple and obvious you can't even bother saying it.

Perhaps it's not so obvious after all?

Careful, last time you went so far out of your way to answer an obvious question you ended up defending nazis. Well, not the last time, but that was a hilarious time.

[guillaumeb]

25. It was obvious to me that you would answer in this way.

I generally respect your interpretative ability, so I would not insult you by stating the obvious.

[Lordquinton]

29. Ok, obviously you mean "No, they can't"

Thanks for your time.

[trotsky]

49. #Whataboutism n/t

[guillaumeb]

129. Nosubstantivecounterresponseism. eom

[trotsky]

131. Provide some substance, you'll get a counter response.

Pretty easy, gil.

[Doodley]

28. I say I am a Christian therefore I am self-righteous and better than everyone else.

Is something a Christian might think.

[ollie10]

106. a lot of people are self-righteous

not all of them are religious

[blur256]

31. This is a very interesting question to me.

I grew up in the "buckle of the bible belt" where hate was a routine sermon. Funny though, I grew up in the Presbyterian church where hate was not preached but it was in the minority. Anyway, my "friends" at the time tried to get me to go to their hate spewing churches and try to save me. I did that once because I was literally cornered by my 8th grade English teacher at a lock in. I was "saved" I guess. I don't honestly know what that means at this point. I am now a proud lesbian woman with a wife who is a minister all of those people shun. Their hate is palpable. So do I consider them Christian? No. But at the same time, there are a few people in my life that I hate. With a passion. Do I consider myself less of a Christian than the ones from my home town? No. But do I feel bad about that? Yes. I want to tell myself I'm better because I hate for better reasons but I still feel guilty. I don't think that is because I'm religious, I think I'm just human.

[gibraltar72]

39. Can they not?

[TomSlick]

42. Well, what the the New Testament says:

"Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him."
1 John 3:25 (NIV)

"Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen."
1 John 4:20 (NIV)

It's not my job to say who is and is not a Christian. However, I was given a good test for deciding to whom I should listen. "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them." Matthew 7:15-16 (NIV)

[madamesilverspurs]

43. That depends.

Depends on what precinct you live in.


.

[smirkymonkey]

44. It seems these days that it is almost a requirement.

I know there are good people who consider themselves Christian, but the majority of them are giving the rest a bad name.

[Pope George Ringo II]

46. And what was that joke about fundamentalist muslims and christians?

Something about how "moderate" believers aren't that bad, but the "fundamentalists" are the problem, and what it says about a belief system if the more you follow it , the more antisocial you are.

[ollie10]

45. It is certainly possible to be an atheist and hate christians!

[Lordquinton]

47. And the inverse?

[ollie10]

48. What do you think?

That has already been asked, in case you hadn't noticed.

[Lordquinton]

50. Yes this is the thread asking it

So you gonna answer?

[ollie10]

52. So you finally figured this out!

..... congratulations on catching up!

[Lordquinton]

54. So are you going to answer the question

The one I asked, if the inverse is true?

Or should I take your replies to be an enthusiastic "yes"

[ollie10]

56. i might consider it if you answered the question I asked you!

Or are you exempt?

And, by the way, the inverse was asked by the OP...and you obviously had not read it!

[Lordquinton]

57. You seem confused

You still haven't answered what I asked. To clarify I was referring to the inverse of what you said, ie: the question in the op, which you never answered.

[ollie10]

58. Why are you singling me out, when you won't answer my question?

How many posters directly answered the question of the OP?

For that matter, did you answer the OP's question?

[Voltaire2]

62. Generally questions are signified in writing through the use of a question mark.

"It is certainly possible to be an atheist and hate christians!"

That was not a question. It was a statement. You were then asked a question, which you continue to refuse to answer.

[ollie10]

65. "what do you think?" is a question.....

As to the question of the OP, which the other poster asked again because he apparently didn't know he was being redundant, let me just quote Jesus....

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" --Jesus —?Matthew 22:35-40 It was also referenced in Mark, btw

Christianity is about love. Loving our fellow man. Even loving our enemies. So, it seems clear that when you are hating you are not following the path of Jesus. Now whether someone is a "christian" or not....that is just a label. What is important, in my view, is the path you follow not what you call yourself.

[Voltaire2]

67. yes but in discussion demanding an answer to your question when you haven't answered

the preceding question is generally rude. You want an answer then give an answer.

As you seem to be answering "no, it is not possible for Christians to hate", how do you explain the 2000 years of people claiming to be christians murdering, torturing, imprisoning and otherwise mistreating all sorts of people? Are they all "not christians"? Is there some "get out of hell" card where as long as you commit atrocities with "love in your heart" it has your gods' blessings?

[ollie10]

69. did you even read the post you responded to?

I answered the question. The other person still hasn't answered the question of the OP. And you haven't either. So, by your definition, you are generally rude.

OK. I get it. I have lost interest in this discussion. Same old, same old from the same old folks.

[Voltaire2]

70. Still don't quite understand. Is it ok to act externally as if you are entirely motivated by hate

as long as you have "love in your heart"?

[ollie10]

71. No. Read.

[Voltaire2]

72. So again what do we make of the long history

of Christians murdering torturing enslaving etc?

All not true Christians?

[ollie10]

73. Read

[Voltaire2]

74. As usual. No answers only evasion

Your books also have Jesus demanding hate.

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

The books are just chock full of nonsense.

How about we judge Christians by how they act instead.

[ollie10]

75. How about you live your life and let others live theirs?

[Voltaire2]

77. How about blueberries in August?

[ollie10]

83. How about YOU answer the OP's question?

I did.

Rather than acknowledge that I did, you falsely accuse me of evading....while all the time YOU are the one who has not answered the OP's question. That is rich!!!!!

[Voltaire2]

84. So you are against blueberries in August.

Typical.

[ollie10]

89. More evasiveness

I eat blueberries all year around. But that is not the topic of this discussion, this is your little diversion. Typical.

I have noticed,however, that you STILL haven't answered the OP's question!!!!

You are too busy examining the specks in other's eyes to notice the log in yours, it seems

[Voltaire2]

97. I thought we were having a non sequitur contest.

My mistake.

[ollie10]

98. big word!

but you STILL haven't replied to the OP's question! That speck in neighbor's eye vs log thingie still rules

[Mariana]

87. I agree, we should judge Christians by how they act.

Ollie, for example, is exemplifying Christian behavior in this subthread.

[ollie10]

99. and likewise we should judge atheists by how they act

[MineralMan]

109. Atheists do judge people on actions. Many Christians, however, avoid judging

other Christians, regardless of their actions. You haven't noticed that?

[ollie10]

112. And many atheists avoid judging other atheists, regardless of their actions.

You haven't noticed that?

[MineralMan]

113. Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

I'm more than happy to judge atheists who are assholes or otherwise to bad things. And I have done that.

[ollie10]

115. wasn't talking about you personally

[MineralMan]

118. And I was speaking personally, as I most often do.

[Thomas Hurt]

51. naw, hadn't you heard Christians only hate the sin, not the sinner (wink, wink)

[kimbutgar]

53. No, Jesus said "love one another as you would love yourself"

Any gay bashing, mulsilm hating and racist who says they are Christian are friggin liars and
Despicable and anti christ.

[Voltaire2]

63. Not if they hate themselves.

Then they are, using your definition of true christians, in complete concordance.

[kimbutgar]

66. Ouch

But twitler like just his cult members love themselves and think they are superior to everyone else and most especially if they are white. Remember the lowest trash white man thinks he is better than any minority.

[Voltaire2]

68. still might hate themselves even while claiming otherwise.

Probably the gods just forgot about that loophole. After all, the NT is rev 2 or 3 of the laws from the gods. Clearly getting it right is difficult. Ethics is hard! There are so many edge cases.

[dameatball]

55. I think you could ask the same of most religions.

The answer is in the heart of the individual. In some areas (like mine) the church has been at the center of family life for many decades.....including socially. So, yes, there are some bad apples that consider themselves Christian because they attend services. My answer is....no.....true Christians should not hate. But sometimes while you are praying, a Viking will cleave your skull with an axe. Hate might have worked better.


So, as usual, I don't know.....

[NeoGreen]

59. I thought it was required...

...
http://biblehub.com/luke/14-26.htm
Luke 14:26

New International Version
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

[Voltaire2]

64. In that verse you need the metaphor decoder ring.

"hate" here means "love". You just have to have the ring.

[liberal N proud]

76. They are self proclaimed Christian

Christianity is something that can only be truly demonstrated and not proclaimed

[no_hypocrisy]

78. IMO, there are two kinds of Christians.

The first is benevolent, kind, charitable, tolerant to others. Eyes on Heaven.

The second is focused on sin, the worst of human traits of others, and too worried about the legions of Satan here on Earth (and thus are in perpetual battle to eradicate such Evil).

[Raven123]

79. No

[Raven123]

80. I think there are multiple explanations for those who hate and proclaim themselves to be Christian

1) Misunderstanding of the message of Jesus. Honestly, having read the Bible and books about he Bible, some of the message is lot in the translation. It is difficult to discern at times. I have been reading a lot about the history of Christianity. It is a common mistake.

2) Some conflate their own prejudices with Christianity. This is the all too human error. The most sinister forms lead to violence, and violation of human rights and concerns of humanity.

3) Failure of humility in favor of hubris. I still marvel at Resident Lincoln's comment about hoping we are on God's side.

4) Everybody wants to be right. For some the inability/failure to rationally explain their opinions or reflect on why they hold them forces them to use an argument that they can hold onto declaring their views as faith-based.

[Raven123]

81. Oops, that's "lost in translation"

[trotsky]

85. Regarding your point #1...

Since no one on earth can be absolutely sure what the "message of Jesus" was, your logic would suggest that there are NO Christians. Everybody's wrong about something, I would guess. Unless you are suggesting there is a perfect Christian somewhere?

[Act_of_Reparation]

100. The answer is obvious. The reactions were predictable.

Christianity is a religion, not game, and certainly not a Platonic ideal. It's largely about belief, and as we all know perfectly well (yet for some reason some refuse to admit) orthodoxy does not necessarily entail orthopraxy. You can believe lying is wrong and still lie. You can believe murder is wrong and still kill. You can believe hate is wrong and still hate, particularly if you've convinced yourself your hate isn't really hate at all, because the Bible explicitly condemns the people you don't like.

The only reason we're discussing this at all is because when we talk about Christianity's cumulative effect on society, the knee-jerk reaction from liberal Christians is to, by way of a ridiculous and impossible standard, deny the bad Christians were ever really Christians in the first place. It's the religious equivalent of "guns don't kill people".

[malchickiwick]

101. Many of Jesus' words encourage love, many also encourage hate.

Perhaps he had a multiple personality disorder?

[saidsimplesimon]

126. Added a rec,

for good measure, or sending love towards those who are "just pretending".

[bitterross]

128. "Hate the sin, not the sinner" That's their BS rationale.

Oh, no, no, no. They don't hate anybody. They just hate their sins.

[MineralMan]

135. I am self-deleting the original post that started this thread.

The question I asked was never answered by anyone. Instead, the thread was hijacked into multiple irrelevant subthreads that devolved into pointless arguments and person attacks. I won't have that any longer, so no more replies will be made in this thread.

Here is the original content from the first post:

Question: Can one be a Christian and hate at the same time?
I ask, because there seems to be a large group of people who call themselves Christians, but who hate a great many people. They hate LGBTQ people. They hate women who exercise their freedom of reproductive choice. They hate Muslims. They hate atheists. Many hate people who are not of the same race they are. Some hate people from certain countries. Others hate people who don't speak the same language they speak while in their presence. Many even hate other Christians who do not hate as they do.

Such people clearly are not following the core teachings of the individual after whom their religion is named. As an atheist, I really have to accept people's own declarations of religious belief, but it's difficult at times. I'm very familiar with the words that are attributed to Jesus in the New Testament. I know for an absolute fact that he did not suggest that people hate other people. At most, he suggested that Christians simply walk away from those who wouldn't listen to them.

So, I ask those who claim Christianity in this group:

Do you consider those who hate to be actual Christians, or are they just pretending to be for some reason?