Why the Catholic Church can't move on from the sex abuse crisis

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

Many Catholic bishops and priests are frustrated by the continued coverage of the sex abuse crisis in the media. ….

They argue that since the widespread mishandling of abuse in the Boston Archdiocese was exposed in 2002, the church in the United States has put in place policies and procedures to deal with abuse.
It’s true that many precautions have been taken. Seminarians and priests, as well as employees and volunteers who work with children, must now go through a police background check. Any accusations of abuse must be reported to law enforcement. In some states, clergy are now mandatory reporters and will be prosecuted if they do not report abuse....

The bishops and their defenders point out that almost all of the abuse cases reported in the news and grand jury reports are old cases. Most of the cases in the Pennsylvania grand jury report, for example, were decades old: Of the 300 priests with accusations of abuse, only two had been accused of committing abuse in the last 10 years. Almost half the priests are dead. All are out of ministry....

There is only one way the bishops can begin to regain credibility, and that is to give a full and credible account of past abuse. Each diocese must publish the names of priests credibly accused, what they were accused of, when the diocese learned of the abuse, and what the bishop did.

To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2018/09/07/why-the-catholic-church-cant-move-on-from-the-sex-abuse-crisis/

[TwistOneUp]

1. Oh, they're *old*cases.

So we should just forget about the victims? What an unrepentant apologist you are. The evil is the church hierarchy, and you are telling us to give them a pass.

No.

Your "cburch" has held the Inquisition, witch hunts, browbeat millions of people into having more children than they wanted, demonized queer people, and abused cbildren.

No. Time to face the music.

[guillaumeb]

2. Did you read the entire article?

Did you read this part, that I included in my excerpt?

There is only one way the bishops can begin to regain credibility, and that is to give a full and credible account of past abuse. Each diocese must publish the names of priests credibly accused, what they were accused of, when the diocese learned of the abuse, and what the bishop did.


I can only assume that you did not, because your accusations clearly do not apply.

[Freddie]

3. The Church is still spending millions$$$

On lawyers lobbying to keep states from changing their statue-of-limitations laws. Clear proof they’re still in CYA mode and care more about “the institution” than the victims.

[guillaumeb]

4. Agreed, they are still covering up.

Which is why this prescription, from the article, must be the foundation of the RCC response:

There is only one way the bishops can begin to regain credibility, and that is to give a full and credible account of past abuse. Each diocese must publish the names of priests credibly accused, what they were accused of, when the diocese learned of the abuse, and what the bishop did.

[MineralMan]

5. Well, the reason all of those cases are old cases is because

children often don't report, or sometimes even recognize, abuse until they are older. That doesn't mean that sexual abuse of children is not going on right now. It just means that it might not be reported for years. Children are easily intimidated into keeping silent about such things, as history makes quite clear.

What makes you think that similar abuse is not currently happening, but is unrecognized and goes unreported?

I have no confidence that the measure put into place are going to eliminate such abuse by priests and others in the church.

What we do not know about still goes on. We will not know about it until later. I have no confidence that the organization with such a dismal record has somehow "fixed" itself. No confidence at all. We're dealing with past abuses, because adults who were abused are speaking up about their abuse and the covering up of that abuse.

Use logic, guillaumeb, instead of just quoting from an apologist web site. Really.

[guillaumeb]

11. When you term it "an apologist web site" that is nonsense.

Logic, what you mention, will reveal that there are many articles very critical of religious behavior.

And we do not know the extent of sexual abuse in families either, or anywhere else. As the Me too movement has shown, even adult victims rarely report abuse.

[MineralMan]

13. And whatabout...?

Just can't help yourself, can you?

[guillaumeb]

15. And you cannot help misusing, or misunderstanding, the term.

But it is a handy shortcut to avoid actual discussion.

[MineralMan]

18. I do not remember an actual discussion with you.

Plenty of diversions, but not discussions.

[guillaumeb]

20. Well, you could stop repeating the term "whataboutism",

which you and others misuse, and engage in actual discussion.

Or not.

[MineralMan]

22. I didn't actually use that word.

I said whatabout...?

Your claim about what whataboutism is was incorrect. I'll use the term as I understand it.

[marylandblue]

34. We actually do have estimates for the extent of abuse in both families and church

We just don't know specifically which families and which priests, nor will we ever find them all. Prior to the #Metoo movement there were decades old studies finding that rape and sexual harassment were occurring much more frequently than individual reports suggest.

But as you agreed to before, it doesn't matter what the crime is, or what the extent of the cover up is. People commit crimes and institutions cover them up. So it's all the same bad thing.

[GemDigger]

6. They fail miserably. This place does a good job on names and places.

https://www.bishop-accountability.org/

[guillaumeb]

23. From the site:

BishopAccountability.org makes no claim regarding the accuracy of any document we post, and we have tried to include the full range of viewpoints, so as to provide a fully documented landscape of the crisis. We post documents in their entirety, and we do not edit the content in any way. Please email us with advice for adding documents we have missed.

But we are learning every day about the extent of the crisis. Will the RCC have the will to take corrective action?

[GemDigger]

24. Yes but is also has much documented evidence.

Copies of letters to and from Bishops on how they would handle the pedos, court documents, and more. You do need to go beyond the first page.

[guillaumeb]

25. I am not disputing that.

And I did. My view is that there is a legal reason for the statement.

What happened is obvious. What remains is to document who did what, and who covered it up.

I live in Illinois. There were a number of stories about local priests and the Bishops who provided cover for them.

[edhopper]

7. Since that accountablity

will include the Vatican and the Pope, it will never happen.

[MineralMan]

8. I don't see the "seal of the confessional" being removed.

That is one of the least likely of things to happen, and it's at the core of the cover-up of priestly child sexual abuse.

Every time an offending priest seeks absolution for their unconscionable behavior, an opportunity is lost to remove that priest from the opportunities to offend.

The priest (or bishop) who hears the confession is bound by doctrine never to reveal what the offender has done. That means that it is not discovered unless a child victim blows the whistle. Every child molester strives to use fear to prevent the victim from reporting the crime. It is a vicious cycle that perpetuates itself, since people who know it is going on cannot reveal that they know.

Until that protection ends, there will be continued sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests.

[trotsky]

26. Well as we all know, that's exactly what happens in secular institutions too.

You know, they can't violate their secret secular confessional. I'm sure it's the same, because someone around here is constantly harping on everyone for trying to acknowledge the unique religious element when it comes to abuse & coverup in the RCC.

[MineralMan]

27. Right.

There's no difference between a doctrine-bound religious denomination and everything else. They're all the same. Secret societies that keep all their shameful, evil secrets hidden.

[marylandblue]

9. They can't do it because it would implicate the current leadership

And the leadership of SAINT John Paul II.

[edhopper]

10. Exactly

why the whole institution needs to be torn down.

[guillaumeb]

12. Only time will show. eom

[MineralMan]

14. Well, it has been about 1800 years so far. How long do you

think we should wait?

[guillaumeb]

16. From the excerpt,

There is only one way the bishops can begin to regain credibility, and that is to give a full and credible account of past abuse. Each diocese must publish the names of priests credibly accused, what they were accused of, when the diocese learned of the abuse, and what the bishop did.

[MineralMan]

17. That is not an answer to my question, which was:

How long will we have to wait?

[guillaumeb]

19. Until we see progress.

Or until more indictments come out.

[MineralMan]

21. Still not an answer. As I said, we've been waiting 1800 years already.

I do not expect progress. I expect more sexual abuse of children.

[trotsky]

28. And if we don't see progress?

Then what?

[MineralMan]

29. Then we wait until Hell freezes over, I suppose.

However, since Hell does not exist, that means forever.

[guillaumeb]

30. Then the justice systems in every country

will have to be used, and Catholics will individually decide what to do.

[trotsky]

31. And what if they don't?

Most don't seem to be bothered enough to leave the church or stop donating.

[guillaumeb]

32. That is a good question.

One hopes that the civil authorities in every country will take action, and given how reluctant many victims are to report abuse, there should be no statute of limitations.

[trotsky]

37. And yet if the church continues to protect criminals, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

And why do they protect criminals?

RELIGION.

[marylandblue]

33. We will have to wait, at least, until the current generation of bishops dies out

Next generation will see the damage to the Church being done right now, and will be in a better position to do something about it.

[Voltaire2]

35. You know that isn't the way it works, right?

You don’t get a fresh crop every 20 odd years. Bureaucratic changeover is incremental. The old bring in and train the new, and carefully weed out the revolutionaries. This fucking institution has been around for 1800 years, they know how to stay the course.

[marylandblue]

36. They've also made periodic reforms

I think another one is due, but not yet.