Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:12 AM

MineralMan (144,938 posts)

As far as I know, none of us here live in China.

If I am mistaken, I hope someone will correct me. Most of the subscribers to this group live in the United States of America. None of us has any influence on China's politics or culture, I believe.

China is a nation of many ethnic groups. Historically, it has not had a national religion, but its people have followed many different religions during its thousands of years of existence. Currently, it is governed by people who reject religious belief. Unfortunately, its government discourages religious worship by its citizens.

China, however, does not represent atheists anywhere else on the planet. As far as I know, nobody who is a subscriber to this forum is an advocate for Chinese policies regarding religion. So, China's policies are irrelevant to the beliefs of Religion Group subscribers, who have nothing, really, to do with China at all.

Atheism is not a religious belief. Individual atheists have a wide range of social, political, and ethical positions. There is no central leadership whatsoever for atheism. Atheism is a philosophical viewpoint. Other than disbelief in the existence of deities and other supernatural entities of that sort, there is little that atheists have in common.

It is a mistake to attempt to tie American atheists to the Chinese political system. Trying to do so is a strawman argument. It is a logical error. It is simply not true.

Thank you for your attention, and for reading this post.

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135 replies	Author	Time	Post
As far as I know, none of us here live in China. (Original post)	MineralMan	Dec 2018	OP
This message was self-deleted by its author	LongtimeAZDem	Dec 2018	#1
I never call anyone a troll. Usually it just turns out	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#3
This message was self-deleted by its author	LongtimeAZDem	Dec 2018	#5
No need for apologies.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#6
yet several folks on this forum	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#2
I do not recall any instances of that.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#4
No I don't routinely link or save posts of other posters	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#7
I see. Just as I thought.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#10
just as you thought what?	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#11
That you have no evidence of what you stated.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#14
so there are two options	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#29
No. There's a third option.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#30
you're ridiculous	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#42
I see. Well, thanks for letting me know your opinion of me.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#43
I'm an atheist and I haven't seen a post like that.	sfwriter	Dec 2018	#105
It is a sexist thing to say. nt.	Mariana	Dec 2018	#32
The testicles thing? I agree.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#37
Testicles? Really?	Mariana	Dec 2018	#31
oh please	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#44
So, you're not part of the left half of the political spectrum?	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#46
not remotely what I said	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#48
"Why the left can't gain traction" The left is doing quite well, thank you. Where are you on the	Nitram	Dec 2018	#55
No, democrats are doing fairly well	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#56
That wasn't why it was said that what you said was sexist.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#59
it's a euphemism	qazplm135	Dec 2018	#62
It's a sexist euphemism when used that way.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#63
Honestly, at this point, I'm surprised I wasn't called hysterical.	Mariana	Dec 2018	#69
Yes. It's difficult for me to understand why some people	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#110
I'm pretty sure the poster understands he used sexist language. nt.	Mariana	Dec 2018	#116
Yes. So I believe, as well.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#117
A good question. I asked him that, too.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#57
I haven't seen it either	Major Nikon	Dec 2018	#16
Yeah. I'd need to see a link, I think.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#17
I never had any testicles to begin with	Mariana	Dec 2018	#33
That's what I assumed from your name.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#40
Oddly enough we all do have gonads.	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#113
Indeed we do.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#115
I also don't recall here looking to China as a positive example of the lack of religion.	PoindexterOglethorpe	Dec 2018	#77
And many have pointed to other nations as examples	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#93
Which theocracy was not intolerant?	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#108
Which society is not intolerant?	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#119
There are many tolerant societies.	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#121
Yes. For example, in law, the United States is a very tolerant society.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#122
Is China's political system bad?	dvduval	Dec 2018	#8
I have no direct experience with the Chinese political system.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#9
I speak Chinese	dvduval	Dec 2018	#12
OK. I work closely with a man who fled China after	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#15
So, you're a supporter of the Chinese political system?	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#18
I'm more apathetic towards it	Major Nikon	Dec 2018	#21
My question was to the other participant in the thread,	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#24
There are good parts and bad parts	dvduval	Dec 2018	#34
Nor did I state that is was good or bad.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#38
I've been to four cities in China	Major Nikon	Dec 2018	#20
I work with colleagues in China.	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#51
You have to understand some here are desperately searching for false equivalences	Major Nikon	Dec 2018	#19
Really?	dvduval	Dec 2018	#36
"I think it could be said that people who call themselves atheists are not all the same."	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#50
Atheology isn't a thing	Major Nikon	Dec 2018	#58
This message was self-deleted by its author	dvduval	Dec 2018	#13
It is always interesting to see people here, who are progressives	edhopper	Dec 2018	#22
I think it's really more whataboutism than anything else.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#25
I don't know any progressives who equate atheism and communism. All communists are atheists, but	Nitram	Dec 2018	#71
The poster of the other China thread	edhopper	Dec 2018	#75
He must be an evangelical or something like that. They tend to simplify things a great deal.	Nitram	Dec 2018	#76
We have not been able to discern what he believes	edhopper	Dec 2018	#78
That's what I was gonna say, atheism / communism	Lordquinton	Dec 2018	#89
My experience	Cartoonist	Dec 2018	#23
As an atheist and a human rights advocate,	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#27
They can	dvduval	Dec 2018	#39
Again, this thread isn't really about China.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#41
Their preconceived notion	dvduval	Dec 2018	#49
Interesting post.	PatrickforO	Dec 2018	#26
It's no effort at all to be an atheist.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#28
"...it's a heck of a lot of work to be an atheist."	Mariana	Dec 2018	#35
I will speak to mine.	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#60
So, you're firm in your belief.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#61
It's probably hardware.	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#104
People are openly critical of the CCP.	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#109
Soft Totalitarianism	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#114
Thank you for your answer.	Mariana	Dec 2018	#65
No but	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#70
If you believed those were the only choices, you'd still be a theist.	Mariana	Dec 2018	#83
You're right.	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#85
I personally find it effortless	The Genealogist	Dec 2018	#52
Me too.	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#53
Sounds like philosophy of non-duality, aka Advaita.	c-rational	Dec 2018	#81
Wow. I didn't realize my little contribution would cause such a stir.	PatrickforO	Dec 2018	#82
That was me.	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#86
Oh. Yeah, I hear that. I do not discuss my beliefs at all, pretty much.	PatrickforO	Dec 2018	#92
I've been to China. Fascinating country	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#45
I'm sure that's true. It's one of the oldest continuous	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#47
They even survived	edhopper	Dec 2018	#72
LOL!	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#73
When did you go last? And where did you go?	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#54
Two years ago and I was mostly in Nanjing.	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#95
Just inquisitive.	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#101
dont underestimate China	AlexSFCA	Dec 2018	#64
Where did I do that? This thread is not actually about China.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#66
it implies that china's atheism is somehow bad	AlexSFCA	Dec 2018	#67
No. My post does not imply that at all.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#68
I thought you were just pointing out that some people who are against atheism equate it with the	Nitram	Dec 2018	#74
Some do	edhopper	Dec 2018	#79
and I was trying to point out that chinese atheists	AlexSFCA	Dec 2018	#84
"China may very well become the world's largest democracy." A very naive view.	Nitram	Dec 2018	#99
Even Soviet Union eventually fell apart	AlexSFCA	Dec 2018	#102
Alex	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#107
Does "freedom of movement" mean you can move and live where you choose? Go abroad?	Nitram	Dec 2018	#111
I hope you are able to visit China.	violetpastille	Dec 2018	#80
I think I agree. There is more than one China.	sfwriter	Dec 2018	#106
This atheist believes in freedom of and from religion.	JNelson6563	Dec 2018	#87
China has been cracking down on Maoists, and I'd assume Maoism is more compatible than religion	Pope George Ringo II	Dec 2018	#88
The Chinese political model also prioritizes social organization over most other concerns.	Act_of_Reparation	Dec 2018	#90
Oh, definitely true	Pope George Ringo II	Dec 2018	#94
I understand the example of Chinese atheists is an issue.	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#91
It would appear that you are about the only one with this "understanding"...	NeoGreen	Dec 2018	#96
As I said, a double standard.	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#97
No text...	NeoGreen	Dec 2018	#98
No text, no response.	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#118
The church is not the only organization that covers up such crimes. Look at all the companies and	Nitram	Dec 2018	#100
Boy Scouts is a relevant example	AlexSFCA	Dec 2018	#103
Yes, children are more vulnerable, and a traumatic event can influence them negatively for	Nitram	Dec 2018	#112
I wrote a post on the tendency of institutions to engage in cover ups of abusive behavior.	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#120
Pointing out that abuse takes place in institutions other than the church does not in any way	Nitram	Dec 2018	#123
Bingo! And that is what gets missed all too often.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#124
I agree.	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#133
Which is exactly what you did.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#125
This message was self-deleted by its author	Nitram	Dec 2018	#129
My post was a reply to guillaumeb, not you.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#130
My sincere apologies, MM. I wondered why your two posts seemed contradictory.	Nitram	Dec 2018	#131
No worries. I've done that, myself.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#132
Misframing on your part.	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#135
Diversion and whataboutism is never appropriate.	MineralMan	Dec 2018	#127
Ironic response.	guillaumeb	Dec 2018	#134
I'm turning chi-anese I think I'm turning chi-anese	Corvo Bianco	Dec 2018	#126
Indeed.	Voltaire2	Dec 2018	#128

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

LongtimeAZDem This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:16 AM

MineralMan (144,938 posts)

3. I never call anyone a troll. Usually it just turns out

to be someone who doesn't think clearly and draws illogical conclusions on a frequent basis.

As far as I know, none of us here live in China.

3. I never call anyone a troll. Usually it just turns out

6. No need for apologies.

2. yet several folks on this forum

4. I do not recall any instances of that.

7. No I don't routinely link or save posts of other posters

10. I see. Just as I thought.

11. just as you thought what?

14. That you have no evidence of what you stated.

29. so there are two options

30. No. There's a third option.

42. you're ridiculous

43. I see. Well, thanks for letting me know your opinion of me.

105. I'm an atheist and I haven't seen a post like that.

32. It is a sexist thing to say. nt.

37. The testicles thing? I agree.

31. Testicles? Really?

44. oh please

46. So, you're not part of the left half of the political spectrum?

48. not remotely what I said

55. "Why the left can't gain traction" The left is doing quite well, thank you. Where are you on the

56. No, democrats are doing fairly well

59. That wasn't why it was said that what you said was sexist.

62. it's a euphemism

63. It's a sexist euphemism when used that way.

69. Honestly, at this point, I'm surprised I wasn't called hysterical.

110. Yes. It's difficult for me to understand why some people

116. I'm pretty sure the poster understands he used sexist language. nt.

117. Yes. So I believe, as well.

57. A good question. I asked him that, too.

16. I haven't seen it either

17. Yeah. I'd need to see a link, I think.

33. I never had any testicles to begin with

40. That's what I assumed from your name.

113. Oddly enough we all do have gonads.

115. Indeed we do.

77. I also don't recall here looking to China as a positive example of the lack of religion.

93. And many have pointed to other nations as examples

108. Which theocracy was not intolerant?

119. Which society is not intolerant?

121. There are many tolerant societies.

122. Yes. For example, in law, the United States is a very tolerant society.

8. Is China's political system bad?

9. I have no direct experience with the Chinese political system.

12. I speak Chinese

15. OK. I work closely with a man who fled China after

18. So, you're a supporter of the Chinese political system?

21. I'm more apathetic towards it

24. My question was to the other participant in the thread,

34. There are good parts and bad parts

38. Nor did I state that is was good or bad.

20. I've been to four cities in China

51. I work with colleagues in China.

19. You have to understand some here are desperately searching for false equivalences

36. Really?

50. "I think it could be said that people who call themselves atheists are not all the same."

58. Atheology isn't a thing

22. It is always interesting to see people here, who are progressives

25. I think it's really more whataboutism than anything else.

71. I don't know any progressives who equate atheism and communism. All communists are atheists, but

75. The poster of the other China thread

76. He must be an evangelical or something like that. They tend to simplify things a great deal.

78. We have not been able to discern what he believes

89. That's what I was gonna say, atheism / communism

23. My experience

27. As an atheist and a human rights advocate,

39. They can

41. Again, this thread isn't really about China.

49. Their preconceived notion

26. Interesting post.

28. It's no effort at all to be an atheist.

35. "...it's a heck of a lot of work to be an atheist."

60. I will speak to mine.

61. So, you're firm in your belief.

104. It's probably hardware.

109. People are openly critical of the CCP.

114. Soft Totalitarianism

65. Thank you for your answer.

70. No but

83. If you believed those were the only choices, you'd still be a theist.