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Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:00 PM

Buttigieg plays the religion card

From the article:

Here, you have somebody who not only acts in a way that is not consistent with anything that I hear in scripture or in church, where itís about lifting up the least among us and taking care of strangers, which is another word for immigrants. And making sure that youíre focusing your effort on the poor. But also personally, how youíre supposed to conduct yourself.

Not chest thumping look-at-me-ism, but humbling yourself before others. Foot washing is one of the central images in the New Testament. And we see the diametric opposite of that in this presidency. I think there was perhaps a cynical process where he decided to, for example, begin to pretend to be pro-life and govern accordingly. Which was good enough to bring many Evangelicals over to his side. But even on the version of Christianity that you hear from the religious right, which is about sexual ethics, I canít believe that somebody who was caught writing hush money checks to adult film actresses is somebody they should be lifting up as the kind of person you want to be leading this nation.


To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2019/04/17/buttigieg-plays-the-religion-card/

Can Buttigieg drive a wedge between Trump and his religious supporters?

Or is racism the key here?

38 replies, 1009 views

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Buttigieg plays the religion card (Original post)
guillaumeb Apr 18 OP
trotsky Apr 18 #1
guillaumeb Apr 18 #3
Voltaire2 Apr 18 #6
guillaumeb Apr 18 #10
Voltaire2 Apr 18 #12
guillaumeb Apr 18 #13
Voltaire2 Apr 18 #14
marylandblue Apr 18 #25
Major Nikon Apr 18 #18
trotsky Apr 18 #15
guillaumeb Apr 18 #16
trotsky Apr 18 #17
guillaumeb Apr 18 #19
trotsky Apr 18 #21
gtar100 Apr 18 #31
guillaumeb Apr 18 #32
gtar100 Apr 18 #33
guillaumeb Apr 18 #35
mobeau69 Apr 18 #2
guillaumeb Apr 18 #4
Voltaire2 Apr 18 #5
Funtatlaguy Apr 18 #7
Voltaire2 Apr 18 #9
marylandblue Apr 18 #27
guillaumeb Apr 18 #38
MineralMan Apr 18 #8
guillaumeb Apr 18 #11
Mariana Apr 18 #20
trotsky Apr 18 #22
Mariana Apr 18 #23
MineralMan Apr 18 #24
qazplm135 Apr 18 #28
guillaumeb Apr 18 #30
guillaumeb Apr 18 #29
Thomas Hurt Apr 18 #26
guillaumeb Apr 18 #36
gtar100 Apr 18 #34
guillaumeb Apr 18 #37

Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:02 PM

1. The more important question is, can a mind closed by faith be opened by discussion?

You yourself have declared that what you have supported with your faith does not need to be justified, and cannot be questioned.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:09 PM

3. Can a mind closed by an unprovable position be open to discussion?

Given that theism and atheism are unprovable positions, you tell me the answer.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:17 PM

6. And we are back to square one.

theistic belief and disbelief are not equivalent positions. But this has been discussed here repeatedly.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:22 PM

10. Are either of them provable positions?

No.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:26 PM

12. OK here we go again.

What assertion of fact is it that atheists need to prove?

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:32 PM

13. Is either position provable?

No.

There is no "here we go..." aspect.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:38 PM

14. what assertion of fact needs to be proved?

For theists: the assertion that a god exists.
For atheists: ?

Please note that an atheist need not assert that no gods exist, the atheist position is simply an absence of belief in gods. Some atheists might assert that no gods exist, but that is not required to be an atheist.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:21 PM

25. I've asked before, but you've never provided a definition of "proof"

Without a definition of the word not only are atheism and theism unprovable, they are also unpizzlable.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:49 PM

18. Yep, easier to just double down on the same nonsense

As if the same worn out canned response is an acceptable substitute for reason.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:44 PM

15. Atheism isn't an unprovable position. I realize that you insist you get to define it for atheists..

but you're simply wrong. Therefore, your answer is, YOU hold the unprovable position, and your mind is closed.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:46 PM

16. The door to my mind is closed.

And I locked the metaphoric door.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:48 PM

17. Thank you for illustrating the problem with religious faith.

I couldn't have done it better myself.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 02:41 PM

19. I cannot hear your knocking.

The door is closed.

Unless you are selling cookies.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:22 PM

21. Thank you for illustrating it again. n/t

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:17 PM

31. Why do they always attack you instead discuss the articles you post.

Because you don't embrace their position? I thought this sort of crap was against DU rules. I like that you bring up interesting topics. Just wanted to say because it's tiresome to go into a thread that veers off into personal attack mode rather than a discussion of the topic.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:22 PM

32. Many do discuss the actual posts.

And some, in my view, feel that this Group should be reserved for attacks on theism.

Thus the endless diversions.

This is a good example of what can take place, but even in this thread we see familiar observations.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218312140

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #32)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:46 PM

33. Thank you for sharing that post. I had not seen it.

Worth reading a few times for me.

I said "always"...I am prone to hyperbole. I try to catch it but don't always. Still, I commend you for handling it with grace.

Thank you again, G.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:26 PM

35. The poster, in my experience, writes very well, and with feeling.

I cannot think of one of Bright's posts that I have not recommended.

Thank you for your words. I will try to live up to them.

Guill

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:06 PM

2. Or is racism the key here?

Do you mean homophobia?

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:10 PM

4. Possibly all of the above?

I would never say that all Trump supporters are racists, or homophobes, or liars.

But they all voted for one.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:14 PM

5. You do understand that Obama tried this and got approximately 0 religious voters to change, right?

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:17 PM

7. Evangelicals think the letter D stands for Devil 👿.

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:21 PM

9. Precisely. It's God's Only Party.

Thinking you are going to 'win them over' is nonsense.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:28 PM

27. That's not what Mariana's chart in post 23 shows.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:29 PM

38. Do you think that no religious voters voted for President Obama? eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:20 PM

8. I doubt if that will occur.

Trump's supporters who support him on religious grounds are not generally people who are likely to change the fixed views that Trump relies on to keep their support.

If change was likely, other information has long been available.

So, Buttigieg will probably have to settle for people for whom religion is not a club used to beat people over the head.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:24 PM

11. There are Trump supporters who claim to support him

because of the abortion issue. And that will not change.

If Buttigieg feels that he can appeal to a portion of the religious voters who currently support Trump, I wish him well.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:20 PM

20. His pussy-grabbing activities didn't put them off.

Everyone knew about that before the election in 2016, and still, the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:32 PM

22. This point can't be forgotten:

the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump.


Liberal believers often succumb to the temptation to believe their version is not only the "true" Christianity, but also the most common and/or popular. Voting patterns indicate otherwise. Christians in the USA - particularly white ones - are quite conservative.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:36 PM

23. Since this fact is often disputed, here is the information.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:56 PM

24. Yes. The numbers tell the story.

But, see, religion benefits society, we are told. I'm not seeing it, frankly.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:53 PM

28. so when I look at that I see the following:

1. The "best" group was Jewish people.
2. But statistically speaking it's a three way tie for best group between Jewish, unaffiliated, and other faiths.
3. Protestants were overall the worst group (mainline protestants are 86% White).
4. Catholics were roughly 50/50, but if you break it down racially, Hispanic Catholics were EQUAL to religiously unaffiliated in support of Trump.
5. White Catholics were the worst group along with Mormons (who are almost exclusively White--85%).

Thus, what that tells me is that race is more important than religion in determining whether someone voted for Trump.
Being a Catholic means either being very much for or against Trump, whether you are White or Hispanic.
Three of the "top" four groups were religious, and one included a Christian religion.
The three "worst" groups were religious, and they all included Christians, but all three are almost exclusively white (85% or higher).

So, being White to me is way more of a problem in this instance than being religious or even Christian. I'm fairly certain the majority of Black and Brown Christians didn't vote for Trump.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:14 PM

30. Excellent observation.

And as if this were not enough, Trump's blatant racism was there to convince the racists that Trump was their candidate.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:12 PM

29. True. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:25 PM

26. You have to wonder if some on the far right christian spectrum haven't already made Trump divine...

or near enough to it. You aren't driving a wedge between them and Trump.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:27 PM

36. Do they see him as the key to making abortion illegal?

If so, I feel that they will be disappointed.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:04 PM

34. I think there are some republicans who are reasonable enough

when it comes to issues such as race and homophobia. I just spent a few days with some people last week who are conservative republicans but definitely not racist and they said nothing about LGBT issues. They were kind to strangers of different stripes and talked of many things, the least being anything political. I could see some of them being open to Mayor Pete and his ideas.

But some of them may still, as you said in another post, have voted for the racist currently occupying the White House. My guess it was simply because they identify as republican and on principle vote that way regardless of the actual person with the "R" behind their name. Our two-party system doesn't really reflect who we really are as a community of people.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:29 PM

37. Voting GOP out of habit?

I agree. Perhaps they buy the meme that the GOP is the Party of family values.

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