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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 02:34 PM Dec 2019

Was Mister Rogers the messiah?

From the article:

The question seems blasphemous.
But the idea certainly must be in many people’s minds as they emerge from the movie theater after seeing “A Beautiful Day In The Neighborhood.”
The film stars Tom Hanks as Fred Rogers, aka Mister Rogers, the iconic children’s television show host. It tells the story of Rogers’ relationship with a journalist who writes for Esquire magazine, based on the real life writer Tom Junod but called Lloyd Vogel in the film. Rogers helps the journalist to repair his relationship with his estranged father, and to become a better husband and father himself. …



And the author leads into:

I am thinking of these words by my friend and teacher Shai Held:
“Judaism dreams of a world in which human dignity is real and the presence of God is manifest. And yet the world as we know it all too often makes a mockery of that dream: Human dignity is trodden and trampled upon in countless ways, and God seems far away, absent, even nonexistent. How do we go on hoping in a seemingly hopeless world?”


To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2019/11/27/fred-rogers-neighborhood-tom-hanks-movie/
61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Was Mister Rogers the messiah? (Original Post) guillaumeb Dec 2019 OP
Seems as though with the blatant hypocrisy among conservative "Christian" fundamentalists hlthe2b Dec 2019 #1
We agree on this. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #2
"The" path? trotsky Dec 2019 #5
his path... he was going to attend seminary school but decided to see how he... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #8
guillaumeb didn't say "his" path, he said "THE" path. trotsky Dec 2019 #10
oh, that path.... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #11
It means nothing to me, that's why I asked what was meant. trotsky Dec 2019 #12
So dismissive, disrespectful, and sarcastic. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #15
Oh hey! So what's "the" path, g? trotsky Dec 2019 #18
Will you apologize to the poster for your comments? eom guillaumeb Dec 2019 #20
If I do, will you answer my question? n/t trotsky Dec 2019 #23
Insufferable Loki Liesmith Dec 2019 #29
Of course I know what he means. The problem is that he's trying to have it both ways. trotsky Dec 2019 #34
If it's such a simple question why didn't he answer it? Major Nikon Dec 2019 #36
It was simply refreshing to see a movie about a Zoonart Dec 2019 #3
An excellent ending. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #4
Yes...really uplifting. Zoonart Dec 2019 #6
"Some, like Trump, seem to deliberately choose to be negative." trotsky Dec 2019 #7
How much does anyone choose? guillaumeb Dec 2019 #16
But those who are abused are more likely to abuse. trotsky Dec 2019 #19
So free will is an illusion? guillaumeb Dec 2019 #21
When there are clearly outside factors that help determine choices people make... trotsky Dec 2019 #24
I am confused. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #25
According to your viewpoint, yes, people do "choose" to abuse. trotsky Dec 2019 #33
We are blank slates at birth. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #38
Uh that's patent nonsense. Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #42
Humans are born with certain reflexes. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #44
maybe you should read up on infant cognitive development Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #47
"no one here has argued that humans have unfettered free will" trotsky Dec 2019 #43
Your first accusation is unsupportable. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #45
You have argued to the contrary here, and you literally did it right in this thread. trotsky Dec 2019 #50
You always give up when the questions get hard. trotsky Dec 2019 #53
It is useless to respond to a non-fact based narrative. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #54
As a reminder, here's the question: trotsky Dec 2019 #55
It posits a change from a previous position. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #56
LOL trotsky Dec 2019 #57
One of your better responses. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #58
Well have you? trotsky Dec 2019 #59
Great job promoting dialogue. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #60
Do you do anything to help the atmosphere, g? trotsky Dec 2019 #61
Yes. Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #41
And that excuses anything? guillaumeb Dec 2019 #46
Where did I state "that excuses anything"? Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #48
If free will is an illlusion, guillaumeb Dec 2019 #49
Not in the sense you mean. Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #51
Well, it's a good thing Trump's a christian with a wake of head-nodding evangelicals to support AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #37
Yes! FM123 Dec 2019 #52
for those interested, there is a documentary on fred rogers out on netflix ... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #9
I have not seen it to date, but I plan on doing so. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #17
No, he was a mortal human being Cartoonist Dec 2019 #13
The evidence for Fred Rogers as the messiah is just as good Major Nikon Dec 2019 #27
And we know Fred Rogers actually existed. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2019 #40
Closer to a bodhisattva, maybe. nt tblue37 Dec 2019 #14
I prefer his indica's myself.... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #22
His behavior? guillaumeb Dec 2019 #26
His compassion. nt tblue37 Dec 2019 #32
I can't wait to see the film. MontanaMama Dec 2019 #28
What an incredible experience Docreed2003 Dec 2019 #31
Thank you for sharing your experience. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #39
Hmmm...there's no need for a messiah, especially based on Jesus's real teachings. His Karadeniz Dec 2019 #30
He was just a very nice man who behaved like one. MineralMan Dec 2019 #35

hlthe2b

(101,713 posts)
1. Seems as though with the blatant hypocrisy among conservative "Christian" fundamentalists
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 02:37 PM
Dec 2019

that a truly nice, decent person-- who lives the tenets of Christ-- would, by comparison, certainly look like the messiah. Somehow, I doubt the kindly humble Fred Rogers would agree.

getagrip_already

(14,233 posts)
8. his path... he was going to attend seminary school but decided to see how he...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 02:57 PM
Dec 2019

could use the power of television to do good and reinforce his deeply held religious beliefs - without using religion overtly. Just the teachings.

Yet he had people on his show he knew to be gay; with no prejudice applied against them.. And he wanted blacks and minorities to be represented.

Those certainly weren't the practiced tenets of religion at the time (and certainly not now).

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
10. guillaumeb didn't say "his" path, he said "THE" path.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:01 PM
Dec 2019

I'd like to know what "THE" path is, and how guillaumeb knows what it is.

Do you know what it is?

getagrip_already

(14,233 posts)
11. oh, that path....
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:09 PM
Dec 2019

Yeah, it runs from squirrel hill to mount washington. There is a bus that can take you if you don't want to walk.

Sorry, not sure what you are really asking..... What does "the" path mean to you.....

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
18. Oh hey! So what's "the" path, g?
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:15 PM
Dec 2019

Or are you only interested in attacking me?

I asked you a question. Will you answer, or attack?

Loki Liesmith

(4,602 posts)
29. Insufferable
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:20 PM
Dec 2019

The path of Christ. Jebus I’m an atheist and I know what he’s talking about. I suspect you do as well. So why the persistent trolling?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
34. Of course I know what he means. The problem is that he's trying to have it both ways.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 09:24 AM
Dec 2019

You'll note he is aware of the hypocrisy of referring to "the" path, because he won't respond, and instead engages in a personal attack on me. As you just did.

Zoonart

(11,748 posts)
3. It was simply refreshing to see a movie about a
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 02:43 PM
Dec 2019

truly NICE person. An exceptional human being. There seem to be so few.

Everything else is about killing and superheroes and human monsters.

Clue: there are no superheroes. Only humans, good ones and bad ones, and the bad ones get all the ink.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
4. An excellent ending.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 02:45 PM
Dec 2019

Yes, there are only imperfect humans.

Some, like Trump, seem to deliberately choose to be negative. And that is so sad, and such a waste of potential.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
7. "Some, like Trump, seem to deliberately choose to be negative."
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 02:55 PM
Dec 2019

Sometimes people like Trump are taught to be negative.

Children who are abused by parents are more likely to grow up to be abusers themselves.

How much do they "choose" their behavior then?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
19. But those who are abused are more likely to abuse.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:16 PM
Dec 2019

So clearly, the choice is not equally free for all to make.

So much for free will.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
24. When there are clearly outside factors that help determine choices people make...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:33 PM
Dec 2019

then it's pretty conclusively demonstrated that free will (as you and most believers portray it) is an illusion.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
25. I am confused.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:30 PM
Dec 2019

I asserted that people choose to molest. And that not all who are molested behave that way toward others. If you assert that free will is an illusion, anything that anyone does is out of their control, correct?

If however, these factors might merely play a part in how people make their choices, that argues for free will.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
33. According to your viewpoint, yes, people do "choose" to abuse.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 09:18 AM
Dec 2019

However, people who were abused as children are statistically more likely to "choose" to abuse.

Why is that?

If free will is truly free, and everyone is equally likely to "choose" to abuse, then why are the children of abusers more likely to?

The clear answer is that we don't have truly "free" will. Our experiences shape us in many ways, they influence our decisions, and we don't control all of them.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
38. We are blank slates at birth.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:19 PM
Dec 2019

And of course our experiences influence us. And, to my knowledge, no one here has argued that humans have unfettered free will.

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
47. maybe you should read up on infant cognitive development
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 07:05 PM
Dec 2019

especially regarding twin studies and how they pretty much rule out tabula rasa models.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
43. "no one here has argued that humans have unfettered free will"
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:31 PM
Dec 2019

You sort of have. The problem is that you feel "unfettered" means that we would have the ability to fly if we chose, or ignore other such physical restrictions.

But that's not what I'm talking about, and you've never addressed this aspect. I'm talking about things we've experienced and things we've learned that affect us in ways we aren't consciously aware, and influence our decision-making. In other words, we are NOT all making the same "free" choice all the time.

Do you understand the distinction?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
45. Your first accusation is unsupportable.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 06:35 PM
Dec 2019

As to your second point, no one argues to the contrary here.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
50. You have argued to the contrary here, and you literally did it right in this thread.
Thu Dec 5, 2019, 09:07 AM
Dec 2019

Or have you changed your position? Do you now acknowledge that factors outside of a person's control can influence their decisions, thus making their will not totally "free"?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
54. It is useless to respond to a non-fact based narrative.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 03:14 PM
Dec 2019

Your questions are not difficult, they are simply unsupported by fact.

And with that, perhaps you should see the movie and give a review.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
55. As a reminder, here's the question:
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 03:59 PM
Dec 2019
Do you now acknowledge that factors outside of a person's control can influence their decisions, thus making their will not totally "free"?


It's a yes/no question.

If there is a problem with the question, please explain what it is.

This isn't difficult. IF you are interested in dialog, that is. If all you want to do is insult and attack me, then it's very difficult to answer i guess.

So what'll it be? Dialog or more insults?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
56. It posits a change from a previous position.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 04:03 PM
Dec 2019

And the premise is unsupported.

Dialogue, contrary to what you are doing here, does not consist in mis-framing and accusing based on mis-framing. Your mis-framing is itself insulting to the subject of the insults. You obviously do not realize it. Or you do.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
57. LOL
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 04:05 PM
Dec 2019

Is that really the best you can do?

If I mis-framed, then explain how I mis-framed. Have you always acknowledged that factors outside our control can affect our decision-making, thus restricting our free will?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
59. Well have you?
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 04:12 PM
Dec 2019

I'm asking the question on your new terms. Will you answer it now? Or insult me some more?

Be the Christian you want the world to see, g.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
60. Great job promoting dialogue.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 04:15 PM
Dec 2019

But regulars here have seen this so often that it is, sadly, expected now. So many no longer post here in this Group because of the atmosphere.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
61. Do you do anything to help the atmosphere, g?
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 04:16 PM
Dec 2019

You could start by answering my simple question.

Turn the page. Let's change things. Let's dialog. I am willing - are you?

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
48. Where did I state "that excuses anything"?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 07:07 PM
Dec 2019

It does however call into serious question punishment theories of criminal justice, and of course christian theology.

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
51. Not in the sense you mean.
Thu Dec 5, 2019, 09:17 AM
Dec 2019

Anti social people aren’t evil or bad or sinners. They have behavior problems that may require isolation from society, and perhaps rehabilitative training. Like a dog that shits in the house. Beating the dog or the person accomplishes nothing

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
37. Well, it's a good thing Trump's a christian with a wake of head-nodding evangelicals to support
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:53 AM
Dec 2019

his ass.

That'll fix everything. Religion is totally necessary and makes everything better, doesn't it?

getagrip_already

(14,233 posts)
9. for those interested, there is a documentary on fred rogers out on netflix ...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 02:59 PM
Dec 2019

either that or hbo. I'm not sure which but it is up now; I saw at a relatives house recently. I haven't seen the movie but the documentary was very well done.

Cartoonist

(7,297 posts)
13. No, he was a mortal human being
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:18 PM
Dec 2019

Just like that Jesus fellow, if he existed. There is no Messiah.

Why can't we accept reality instead of making up superheroes?

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
27. The evidence for Fred Rogers as the messiah is just as good
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:40 PM
Dec 2019

Better really when you consider there’s a much better record of his acts.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
26. His behavior?
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:31 PM
Dec 2019

If heaven is a state of mind, rather than a place. one might argue that Rogers found heaven.

MontanaMama

(23,238 posts)
28. I can't wait to see the film.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:10 PM
Dec 2019

My husband isn’t wild about going with me but he promised. I anticipate bawling through the whole thing. I think Fred Rogers might be one of the best people I ever came across. I got to meet him when I was 10 and my family was invited to the Kennedy home, Hickory Hill, in 1974. Mr. Rogers was there to hang with the kids. I remember being mesmerized by him. All the kids were. It just felt good to be near him and listen to him.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
39. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:20 PM
Dec 2019

I never actually watched the program, but I have read about his message.

Karadeniz

(22,267 posts)
30. Hmmm...there's no need for a messiah, especially based on Jesus's real teachings. His
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:26 PM
Dec 2019

Teachings are all about individual soul development as being how one qualifies to be exempt from the death cycle which is reincarnation. We are each our souls messiah.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
35. He was just a very nice man who behaved like one.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:28 AM
Dec 2019

Maybe he followed Christian teachings, rather than ignoring them, but I don't know. He was a good guy, though.

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