What I would like for Christmas

[Angry Dragon]

What I would like to see within the Christian religions is the leaders actually following in the foot steps of the Christ that they profess to love and obey. I would like them to give up their fortunes and travel the world and live the life of Christ.

The Christ I know was a man that traveled to where the people were and not live a lavish lifestyle. He lived among the people and did not hold himself above the masses. He lived the life he spoke of. How can you expect people to believe you when you live a lie??

One of the most blatant examples is the Roman Catholic Church. The Pope talks about helping the poor and sits on more wealth than a lot of countries. It seems the churches position is if they gave away their wealth then the church would not exist. My position is that if their god is true they could get rid of all their possessions, churches, money, opened their libraries and their god would still exist. Their position seems to be that the church is more important than the people where their Christ thought the people were more important.

If their god exists then he exists outside of the church. He lives among the people. If all the churches were destroyed then god would still be there.

I would like to see the religious leaders move among the people like they told to do and not sit on thrones made of gold.

[LARED]

1. Good points, but

the reality is that a very significant majority of Christain church leaders live a modest lifestyle and do try to follow Christ as commanded.

[Angry Dragon]

2. Are you talking about the local ministers and such

or the leaders at the top that set the rules and course of the church??

[laconicsax]

3. Prove it. n/t

[LARED]

4. Here you go

PDF version is here

http://pulpitandpew.org/sites/all/themes/pulpitandpew/files/salarystudy.pdf


Blog summary here;

About 60 percent of Protestant pastors serve in small churches, with an average weekly attendance of 100 or less. It was in these churches where the impact of church polity -- and the free market -- was most apparent, according to McMillan and Price. The median salary, including housing, for pastors serving small churches was $36,000 in connectional churches and $22,300 in congregational churches.

In large churches (with 351 to 1,000 in attendance, comprising about 5 percent of all Protestant churches), median salaries were $66,003 for pastors in connectional churches and $59,315 for pastors in congregational churches.

http://revcamp.blogspot.com/2006/12/clergy-salaries-recent-research.html

[Angry Dragon]

5. These are the leaders of a church

not the leaders of the church ......... there is a difference

[LARED]

6. Your words stated

I would like to see the religious leaders move among the people like they told to do and not sit on thrones made of gold

It is a preety general statement and I thought that included leaders of a church and leaders of the church. I commeneted that the large majority of church leaders live modestly, and backed that up with data.

I'm not sure what you mean by leaders of the church, as Christian churches and church governance are quite diverse.

[Angry Dragon]

7. I probably could have stated that better, sorry

Most of my anger would be directed at the leaders of the churches, such as the pope, cardinals, bishops etc.
The boards of some churches.
As far as the local churches each one is different.
The church that I grew up in many moons ago had a pastor that all he wanted was to go to a bigger church because he thought he was better than where he was.
My sister goes to a church that is very liberal. Both of these are/were Missouri Synod, not known for their liberal ways.
My sister tells me that the Synod leaves them alone because they are growing.
The catholic church has some progressive churches but on the whole the Roman Catholic Church is a greedy, controlling organization that cripples the minds of their followers.

For over 45 years I have held the belief that if a church promotes itself as the true path to Christ and god then there should be no secrets, all doors open, for if what you believe is true you have nothing to hide. God is not one size fits all. God is a very personal experience and each one of us approaches god in a different way.

Do not get me started on the tv preachers, the mega churches, robertson etc. Religion to make some rich off the backs of the followers.

[LARED]

8. I agree with much of what you said

I attend non denominational churches. When looking for a church to fellowship with one aspect I look closely at is the governance.

That will tell you a lot about the mission of the church and what is important. If it is money, membership, or other secular "virtues", how the leadership is structured can tell you a lot. If finances are secret, or the leadership is held within a small group with no accountability then I will avoid them. A biblical based church will set up systems of accountability that are pretty transparent to the membership and the world at large.

[laconicsax]

9. Thank you. n/t