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cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:08 PM Jul 2012

Religion Cut Off Her Nose, Science Put It Back On. (Warning: Graphic Image)

Last edited Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Three cheers for science!!

Hip hip, Hooray!
Hip hip, Hooray!
Hip hip, Hooray!


The smile that defies the Taliban: Afghan teenager whose mutilated face shocked the world unveils her new image


An Afghan teenager who was horribly mutilated by her husband under Taliban rule was all smiles as she unveiled her new prosthetic nose for the first time.

Aisha, 19, shocked the world when she appeared on the cover of Time Magazine to lift the veil on the plight of many women in Afghanistan.

Yesterday, she bravely faced the public wearing a prosthetic nose - one that gives her some idea of how she will look after having reconstructive surgery.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1319804/Afghan-girl-Bibi-Aisha-nose-ears-hacked-Taliban-rule-gets-new-face.html#ixzz21MstInWj


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Religion Cut Off Her Nose, Science Put It Back On. (Warning: Graphic Image) (Original Post) cleanhippie Jul 2012 OP
Real headline: The smile that defies the Taliban: Afghan teenager whose mutilated face shocked the cbayer Jul 2012 #1
What else would account for this? immoderate Jul 2012 #2
Cognitive Dissonance. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #4
Rounds are over. cbayer Jul 2012 #6
Indeed they are. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #8
It's the freakin' taliban. They flew planes into buildings. cbayer Jul 2012 #5
"It also does not represent religion, even if it calls itself a religion" cleanhippie Jul 2012 #13
the taliban did not fly planes into buildings. saudis did. eom ellenfl Jul 2012 #17
Snap! cleanhippie Jul 2012 #19
Point taken cbayer Jul 2012 #21
No True Scotsman rears its ugly head skepticscott Jul 2012 #20
Most (15)were Wahaabi from Saudi Arabia. alfredo Jul 2012 #34
I'll raise you several crusades, an inquisition or three, and Salem. TheMadMonk Jul 2012 #35
No question that terrible things have been done in the name of religion. cbayer Jul 2012 #36
One more thing. cbayer Jul 2012 #37
Of course it's their fucking religion. Evoman Jul 2012 #58
No disagreement there, Evoman. cbayer Jul 2012 #60
Fine, but we have to confront the fact that religion AND misogyny played a role here. Evoman Jul 2012 #61
Pulling it out into the sunlight for all to see is one way we can confront it. cbayer Jul 2012 #62
The local authorities are impotent because their laws are based on religion. Evoman Jul 2012 #64
Coundn't be patriarchy. rug Jul 2012 #9
I love seeing people rationalize things. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #14
A husband who cuts off the nose of his 12 year old wife for running away couldn't be patriarchy. rug Jul 2012 #22
Sure it is, patriarchal religion. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #23
And I suppose you believe religion is the only basis for patriarchy. rug Jul 2012 #26
Your first mistake is supposing anything. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #27
You're right, I should have said concluded. rug Jul 2012 #28
I conclude that you are a slave to ideology, not logic. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #29
It is far from your sole false conclusion. rug Jul 2012 #30
. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #31
For one who makes blanket statements about religion I would truly say humblebum Jul 2012 #44
Truly! cleanhippie Jul 2012 #45
The Roman Catholic wants to point his finger at patriarchy? Goblinmonger Jul 2012 #71
What, has the RCC entered this thread? rug Jul 2012 #72
Nope never said it did. Goblinmonger Jul 2012 #73
Ok. But, for future reference, rug Jul 2012 #74
The Taliban certainly does represent the religion found in Afghanistan. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #3
He'll grab any handy atrocity to make advance a preformed premise. rug Jul 2012 #7
. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #10
I'm surprised you haven't used the Colorado shootings rug Jul 2012 #15
Patience, young grasshopper. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #18
I'm going to recommend it so that more eyes may be laid on it. cbayer Jul 2012 #11
By all means skepticscott Jul 2012 #24
Excellent! Thank you! cleanhippie Jul 2012 #25
That is only a rule in LBN. Anywhere else, we can use any thread title we damn well please. 2ndAmForComputers Jul 2012 #75
I am well aware of that. Thanks. cbayer Jul 2012 #79
i read the whole story barbtries Jul 2012 #12
Nope. Its a perfecty acceptable practice in that belief system. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #16
and exactly what belief system is that? n/t azurnoir Jul 2012 #32
Is that a trick question? cleanhippie Jul 2012 #33
was that a trick answer? azurnoir Jul 2012 #38
Haha. Ok, if you say so. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #39
ya you too azurnoir Jul 2012 #40
. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #42
really you think so I'm flattered n/t azurnoir Jul 2012 #49
... while Afghan law enforcement did not have a long enough arm to reach into the village struggle4progress Jul 2012 #53
thank you. barbtries Jul 2012 #56
What really hurts is when a tragedy like this is used to score points cbayer Jul 2012 #57
when i saw your post barbtries Jul 2012 #59
It's not just used for "points". It's used, yes, but only to make an important point some people Evoman Jul 2012 #65
I don't see that at all, but then we see lots of things differently. cbayer Jul 2012 #66
How can you not see it? Evoman Jul 2012 #67
There are a few, but they are a minority. cbayer Jul 2012 #69
Religion CAN be harmful; not IS harmful. LARED Jul 2012 #70
Analogously, it's not 100% guaranteed you'll get a STD if you have random unprotected sex. 2ndAmForComputers Jul 2012 #78
What?.. If I have random unprotected sex, I don't get that extra hour of evening sunlight? cbayer Jul 2012 #80
Yes. and of course we know what has happened because of atheists. Millions of noses humblebum Jul 2012 #41
Bwahahahaha! cleanhippie Jul 2012 #43
Your link is from 2010; reconstructive surgeries didn't begin until June 2012; struggle4progress Jul 2012 #46
I'm sure they were. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #47
wow thats all I can say wow azurnoir Jul 2012 #48
Having a discussion with you is like talking to a petulant child. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #50
well again coming from one as wise as yourself I'm flattered azurnoir Jul 2012 #51
At this point, I can couldn't care less about what your opinion on this is. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #52
well that's your opinion as for myself I find those who make statements azurnoir Jul 2012 #54
Oh, please, by all means, state it yourself. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #55
I think your reply to comment #46 states your case quite well azurnoir Jul 2012 #68
The word "like" in your post makes it not totally accurate. It should be excised. 2ndAmForComputers Jul 2012 #76
Here's a logical response to your statement: Kavik1 Jun 2013 #81
whoever cut her nose is a true monster demguy_5692 Jul 2012 #63
For lots more mutilation, look into the Lord's Resistance Army, AKA Rush Limbaugh's irregulars: dimbear Jul 2012 #77

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
1. Real headline: The smile that defies the Taliban: Afghan teenager whose mutilated face shocked the
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:17 PM
Jul 2012

world unveils her new image.

Was that too long or did you really think that the Taliban represents "religion"?

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
2. What else would account for this?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:25 PM
Jul 2012

It might not be your religion, but it's surely not rationality, or science, or secular humanism.

--imm

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
5. It's the freakin' taliban. They flew planes into buildings.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:30 PM
Jul 2012

It's not rationality or science or secular humanism. It also does not represent religion, even if it calls itself a religion

The OP's headline was misleading flame bait. It's part of his new path.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
13. "It also does not represent religion, even if it calls itself a religion"
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:36 PM
Jul 2012


Sounds a lot like humblebum's "where you see contradiction, I see confirmation" line.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
20. No True Scotsman rears its ugly head
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:41 PM
Jul 2012

And as early as Post #5. Who wins the pool?

Just out of curiosity, what exactly disqualifies what the Taliban espouses as stemming from religious belief and religious motivation?

 

TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)
35. I'll raise you several crusades, an inquisition or three, and Salem.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 03:23 PM
Jul 2012

Jim Jones; Branch Davidians; Fundie Momons screwing girls barely into their teens; Orange People; The Exlusive Bretheren; Scientology; Even the supposedly gentle Amish have gotten into the act recently.

Then we can mine the OT for multiple proudly proclaimed examples of God ordained genocide.


The problem is religion. The problem is belief systems which cannot peacefully coexist with any other belief system.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
36. No question that terrible things have been done in the name of religion.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 03:37 PM
Jul 2012

It's the inability to distinguish between them and the conflating of one into all in order to paint all religion as evil that I object to.

Evoman

(8,040 posts)
58. Of course it's their fucking religion.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:35 PM
Jul 2012

It's monstrous, and it guides them to do horrific things.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
60. No disagreement there, Evoman.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:50 PM
Jul 2012

What I object to is the exploitation of this tragic case to score some points in some imagined game by rewriting the headline then proceeding to treat this like a football.

It's no better than what the religious right is doing with the Colorado murders.

Evoman

(8,040 posts)
61. Fine, but we have to confront the fact that religion AND misogyny played a role here.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:56 PM
Jul 2012

This shit almost makes me cry.....we can help this one woman, but how many more are suffering every god damned day. Women getting acid thrown in their face, being honor raped, having their genitals cut up......it's all because a bunch of fucking neandrethals believe so strongly in the fucking lies written in their shitty religious books.

God I hate religion.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
62. Pulling it out into the sunlight for all to see is one way we can confront it.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 07:00 PM
Jul 2012

The local authorities couldn't even do anything.

I know you hate religion and I know you see the worst of it in a glaring way. I understand where you come from on this, though I don't agree with you.

Abuse of women is widespread and not all cases have religious roots. Believe me, I know this to be true.

Evoman

(8,040 posts)
64. The local authorities are impotent because their laws are based on religion.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 07:03 PM
Jul 2012

This was a lawful act.

Human beings make me sick.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
9. Coundn't be patriarchy.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:34 PM
Jul 2012

"When Aisha was 12, her father promised her in marriage to a Taliban fighter to pay a debt. She was handed over to his family who abused her and forced her to sleep in the stable with the animals.

"When she attempted to flee, she was caught and her nose and ears were hacked off by her husband as punishment."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1319804/Afghan-girl-Bibi-Aisha-nose-ears-hacked-Taliban-rule-gets-new-face.html#ixzz21Mzv5zJ3

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
22. A husband who cuts off the nose of his 12 year old wife for running away couldn't be patriarchy.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
Jul 2012


Check your privilege meter.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
23. Sure it is, patriarchal religion.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:46 PM
Jul 2012

Pretty sure the Catholic Church operates under a patriarchal system too.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
26. And I suppose you believe religion is the only basis for patriarchy.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:06 PM
Jul 2012

With the elimination of religion comes the elimination or patriarchy and misogyny, correct?

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
29. I conclude that you are a slave to ideology, not logic.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:36 PM
Jul 2012

Although I fail to see how one can be a slave when its voluntary.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
44. For one who makes blanket statements about religion I would truly say
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:49 PM
Jul 2012

that you are certainly not displaying any affinity towards logic, but are definitely a willing slave to the ideology of radical atheism.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
71. The Roman Catholic wants to point his finger at patriarchy?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 10:00 PM
Jul 2012

As my dad would have said: those are some big brass ones, my friend; I'm impressed.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
73. Nope never said it did.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 10:15 PM
Jul 2012

Just usually don't see the RCC members trying so hard to point to patriarchy as a problem in a religion.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
3. The Taliban certainly does represent the religion found in Afghanistan.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:27 PM
Jul 2012

And that religion and its ideology was directly responsible for this woman's mutilation. No god saved her, but science sure did.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
24. By all means
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:48 PM
Jul 2012

It's very healthy for the group to have these kinds of mutual...admiration...societies spring up. Adds to the diversity, which is a Great Thing.

barbtries

(28,702 posts)
12. i read the whole story
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:36 PM
Jul 2012

and it does not appear that there were any consequences to the sick fucks who did this to her.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
33. Is that a trick question?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 03:07 PM
Jul 2012

While I am unsure of the exact denomination, in this particular case, it falls under the umbrella of Islam, much the same way methodist or baptist falls under the umbrella of Christianity.

People all over the world, from all religious belief systems, can rationalize such acts of barbarism under the banner of their faith. Right here in this country, despicable acts are committed daily under the banner of "religious freedom." This is not some new thing, nor do I see it ending anytime soon.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
39. Haha. Ok, if you say so.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:02 PM
Jul 2012


Not sure how I could be anymore straight forward. You asked what belief system, and I told you. AND provided you some context, so that you would not be able to misconstrue my response.

You have a really, really, nice day.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
40. ya you too
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:11 PM
Jul 2012

as for your dancing around a straight answer I'll take that as an answer your OP speaks for itself , I note you only targeted ONE religion as if the girl in the photo was common practice in that religion under the IMO tissue paper thin guise of science vs religion

struggle4progress

(118,041 posts)
53. ... while Afghan law enforcement did not have a long enough arm to reach into the village
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:29 PM
Jul 2012

that Aisha had fled, the police nonetheless did have long memories, and this week arrested one of the suspects. “It would have taken 100 armored vehicles to go in there to that village,” said the district police chief, Mohammed Gul. Sooner or later, though, everyone in the area comes to the bazaar in the Chora district, in south-central Oruzgan Province. When Aisha’s father-in-law, Sulaiman, showed up, the police were waiting ... The provincial police chief in Oruzgan was scathing in denouncing the crime and its perpetrators. “Sulaiman pointed a gun at her head while the other men, his sons, sliced off her nose,” said Brig. Gen. Juma Gul Himat. “Sulaiman then took her amputated nose and proudly showed it off around the village.” It is rare for the police in Afghanistan to intervene when local villagers impose punishments for social crimes, even severe ones such as flogging and stoning, which are allowed under Shariah law, the legal code of Islam based on the Koran. There is no Shariah law provision, however, for cutting off nose and ears of a runaway child bride ...
Arrest Made in Afghan Disfigurement Case
By ROD NORDLAND and TAIMOOR SHAH
Published: December 7, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/world/asia/08afghan.html?_r=1


... The suspect, Sulaiman, who like many Afghans has one name, was released with the knowledge of the governor in south-central Oruzgan Province, said the provincial attorney, Ghulam Farouq. Police officials had said that Mr. Sulaiman, the woman’s father-in-law, had confessed to taking part in the mutilation in 2009, though Mr. Farouq said he had recently insisted he was innocent. On Monday, Mr. Farouq gave two different reasons for the release of Mr. Sulaiman: that there was no one in Afghanistan to press the case against him — because the victim is now in the United States — and that he did not cut off the girl’s nose himself. “If someone commits a crime, then nobody else should be punished or arrested,” Mr. Farouq said. “The crime was committed by his son, Quadratullah, and this innocent guy was imprisoned for 11 months.” The governor of Oruzgan Province could not be reached for comment on Monday ...
Suspect in Mutilation of an Afghan Woman Is Freed
By ALISSA J. RUBIN
Published: July 11, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/12/world/asia/12afghanistan.html?_r=1&hp

barbtries

(28,702 posts)
56. thank you.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:06 PM
Jul 2012

it really hurts that this goes on. i'm a woman. i am, in spite of all the bullshit going on, fortunate to be a woman in the US.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
57. What really hurts is when a tragedy like this is used to score points
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:26 PM
Jul 2012

in some kind of imaginary game.

Complete with full pages of rofl's, *snaps*, *bwahahahas*, etc.

It's hard to understand.

barbtries

(28,702 posts)
59. when i saw your post
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:42 PM
Jul 2012

i glanced down and saw for the first time what you were talking about. thank you again because now i can just leave this thread.

Evoman

(8,040 posts)
65. It's not just used for "points". It's used, yes, but only to make an important point some people
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 07:07 PM
Jul 2012

just don't get or keep denying.

Religion is harmful.

Religion is not all fucking flowers and rainbows and MLK.

Even though, stupendously, some people on here are still denying that simple fact.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
66. I don't see that at all, but then we see lots of things differently.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 07:12 PM
Jul 2012

I don't think there is any denial here that religion can be harmful, has been harmful and is currently harmful in many ways.

But I would hate to miss the flowers, rainbows and MLK because I can't see past that.

Evoman

(8,040 posts)
67. How can you not see it?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 07:22 PM
Jul 2012

How many times have we had people here tell us that someones horrible actions is not because of their religion, even when the killers/rapists/abusive parents SAY it is their religion that drove them?

Every fucking time crusades or something like that comes up, it's always blamed on material greed, or land expansion, or politics. Never religion.

I'm sorry cbayer....you must have some sort of blindness not to see the rampant denial of the harm of religion, and the copious use of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
69. There are a few, but they are a minority.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 07:31 PM
Jul 2012

To conflate them with all the believers that post here would be unfair.

And just because some lunatic says the bible told them to do it, doesn't always mean much. Those stories are worth reading closely. Paranoid schizophrenics often incorporate religious themes into their delusions as a way to make sense of them.

Of course, I will admit that religion provides them with a lot of material.

The fact is, we are not all Scotsmen.

2ndAmForComputers

(3,527 posts)
78. Analogously, it's not 100% guaranteed you'll get a STD if you have random unprotected sex.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 10:47 PM
Jul 2012

Therefore, random unprotected sex is totally safe and should not be criticized.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
80. What?.. If I have random unprotected sex, I don't get that extra hour of evening sunlight?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 11:08 PM
Jul 2012

That sucks.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
41. Yes. and of course we know what has happened because of atheists. Millions of noses
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:17 PM
Jul 2012

never to breath fresh air again.

struggle4progress

(118,041 posts)
46. Your link is from 2010; reconstructive surgeries didn't begin until June 2012;
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:53 PM
Jul 2012

and the anticipated multiple operations will stretch over several years

I bet a lot of the folk who've helped her are Muslim themselves

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
48. wow thats all I can say wow
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:03 PM
Jul 2012

so all Muslims all 1.5 billion of them should stampede to Afghanistan? but on that thought where were the atheists when this was happening, surely there are some among the Nato forces there, why didn't they do something?

see makes about as much real sense as anything here

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
51. well again coming from one as wise as yourself I'm flattered
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:12 PM
Jul 2012

but IMO your line of reasoning in comment #47 resembles those who said where are the Muslims expressing their sorrow, disgust with, anger at, at 9/11

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
54. well that's your opinion as for myself I find those who make statements
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:49 PM
Jul 2012

that broadbrush an entire group or make statements like the one in #47 to be something other than irrelevant, I'll allow you to fill in the adjective

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
68. I think your reply to comment #46 states your case quite well
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 07:29 PM
Jul 2012

although I am curious what would you like for me to say?

it should be noted that while science helped this girl, it could also be said that a different branch of science is helping to keep the anarchy in Afghanistan going

It should also be noted that this is only one girl out of hundreds who have either been mutilated or attempted suicide by immolating themselves and are left horribly disfigured as a result, what is truly sad is that the take over by these monsters called the Taliban could have been averted unfortunately those who could have helped were too busy with other things, maybe science will help them too, but as things stand can it or will it be used prevent more from becoming victims, or will it be used in Afghanistan to create more victims of different kind and is that any better?

Kavik1

(1 post)
81. Here's a logical response to your statement:
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 11:16 AM
Jun 2013

Where were the atheists? Perhaps in the US military, who gave her emergency care to save her from dying of blood loss. Perhaps in the doctors and psychiatrists who helped her through months of mental and physical anguish. Why didn't they do something? They did. The USA did. Christians, jews, atheists, who knows, but they did do something.



And you end you say " that makes about as much sense as anything here"

Really? So because you feel you've managed to disprove ONE bit of information (despite the fact that if you actually read her story you'd notice that the USM helped her...) So because you feel you've managed to disprove ONE bit, you can suddenly say "haha, nothing else you said makes any sense either!"


At first I felt bad for you when you were being ridiculed.

However that feeling quickly passed.

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