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cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 05:08 PM Sep 2012

Cardinal Carlo Martini says Church '200 years behind'

In light of this, the Pope is apparently still undecided on whether he will attend the funeral.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19451439

1 September 2012 Last updated at 14:12 ET

Italian Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini has described the Roman Catholic Church as being "200 years behind" the times.


Cardinal Martini's body is lying in state in Milan Cathedral

The cardinal died on Friday, aged 85.

Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera has published his last interview, recorded in August, in which he said: "The Church is tired... our prayer rooms are empty."

Martini, once tipped as a future pope, urged the Church to recognise its errors and to embark on a radical path of change, beginning with the Pope.

Thousands of people have been filing past his coffin at Milan's cathedral, where he was archbishop for more than 20 years.

more at link

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
7. I think this pope is still trying to get historical payback at the students who stood up to him
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 09:16 PM
Sep 2012

when he was running a college in Germany in the Sixties...no one is more reactionary than a liberal(as Ratzinger saw himself then) who's been challenged by the left.

meow2u3

(24,743 posts)
14. Agreeed. Pope Benny is still holding a grudge
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:03 PM
Sep 2012

against the students who stood up to him. His entire papacy consists of getting even with anyone to his left, even the moderate majority, and if it means fundamenalists who have molested and/or abetted sexual abusers in power, so be it.

Somebody needs to remind him that real Christians don't hold grudges or seek revenge or use God's name to cover up crimes, especially horrific crimes against children. I thought Christians, especially Catholics, were supposed to forgive those who offended them.

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
8. More like 359 years behind the times...
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 09:37 PM
Sep 2012

In 1633 Galileo Galilei sentenced by the Inquisition to imprisonment, commuted to house arrest, for vehement suspicion of heresy; Catholic Church places Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems on the List of Prohibited Books. In 1992, Pope John Paul II expressed regret for how the Galileo affair was handled, and issued a declaration acknowledging the errors committed by the Catholic Church tribunal that judged the scientific positions of Galileo Galilei, as the result of a study conducted by the Pontifical Council for Culture. To this day the Catholic Church is not entirely clean on this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_galilei

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
3. He was considered one of the more progressive Cardinals.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 05:22 PM
Sep 2012

Like many Jesuits, he was a thorn in this Pope's side going back nearly thirty years to when Ratzinger ran the the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
4. Jesuits, yes.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 05:31 PM
Sep 2012

Have you read The Sparrow? It's a novel about the first man mission to another inhabited planet. The trip includes a number of Jesuits.

Even if you don't like science fiction, I think you might find this book a great read.

Her sequel, Children of God, is also very good, but The Sparrow is outstanding.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
6. Thanks for the tip.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 05:35 PM
Sep 2012

I hadn't heard of it. I do like science fiction. One of my favorites that combined religion and science fiction was A Canticle for Leibowitz.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
9. I would also suggest James Blish's A Case of Conscience
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:16 AM
Sep 2012

About a Jesuit priest confronted with an alien intelligent race, apparently unfallen, which he eventually concludes must be a Satanic fabrication. And the concept that Satan cannot create anything is taken into consideration.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
11. I have no real problems with the Catholic faith
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:27 AM
Sep 2012

I do have real problems with the Catholic Church, which is something else entirely. We had a chance, in the 1960s, to fix a lot of problems, but many in the hierarchy, especially the Vatican curia opposed it. (The line from Blazing Saddles, "We've got to save our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen!" just flashed through my mind.)

The hierarchy, from the pope on down, refuses to think that the laity are adults, able to think for themselves. Heck, they don't even think that we deserve the truth. In the pedophilia mess, AFAIK, not once has a member of the hierarchy said, "We screwed up in handling this." No, they blame the media, they blame "enemies of the Church," they blame the victims, they do not accept the blame themselves. And they expect us to believe all this crap.

I have written elsewhere in this forum on the inadequacies of Vatican position papers: Sloppy reasoning, cherry-picked quotations, dubious reading of history, ignoring contrary evidence (an egregious example is Pope Paul VI's encyclical on priestly celibacy failing to mention 1 Corinthians 9:5, in which the Apostle Paul says he has a right to marry, just like all the other apostles) and attempts to cut off discussion by fiat.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
13. They higher ups seem to have significant control issues.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 11:40 AM
Sep 2012

And the higher you go, the worse it gets.

Your statement about their refusing to believe that anyone outside their circle has the maturity or wisdom to handle the truth is striking.

When the pedophilia nightmare began to break, they were referring individual priests to mental health professionals, but would not give them any of the background information they had and had clearly told the priests what they could and could not divulge.

They rapidly converted to an *internal system* for evaluation and treatment of these very disturbed men, which was free from external oversight. It became apparent very quickly that these systems were being used primarily to paint over the problem and no real treatment was happening.

It sickens me still that many of us had to stand idly by while we watched the cover up. We were bound by strict codes of confidentiality, but we knew what was being done.

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