Another Pennsylvania school board drops prayer

[cleanhippie]

The Grove City [Pa.] Area School District Board of School Directors voted Sept. 10 "to eliminate prayer" at meetings, according to a Sept. 13 letter to the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

School Solicitor Timothy McNickle was responding to a July 10 letter of complaint from FFRF and a Sept. 5 follow-up letter about the illegal prayers.

The board voted in June against changing the prayer to a moment of silence, which led to FFRF Staff Attorney Rebecca Markert's first letter. In it, she reminded the board of numerous court rulings that said scheduled prayer at school board meetings is unconstitutional.

McNickle and Superintendent Richard Mextorf then told the board that it was unlikely that the prayer would meet legal scrutiny and recommended a moment of silence instead.

Grove City is the second Pennsylvania board to recently drop prayer after getting an FFRF letter. Big Spring [Newville, Pa.] Board President Wilbur Wolf announced Aug. 28 that “prayer will be removed from future meeting agendas to avoid the potential cost of legal action against the board and Big Spring School District.”

http://ffrf.org/news/releases/another-pennsylvania-school-board-drops-prayer1/

I guess what really bothers me most, is that the board did not change the policy because it was the right thing to do, but because of the threat of legal action and the fiscal cost such action would bring.

[GulleyJimson]

1. OMG!

What's next, Shariah law?

[cleanhippie]

3. Huh?

It's not Sharia law anyone here should be concerned about. The danger is coming from the Christian Right and the Theocracy they want to see instituted.

Welcome to DU.

[kestrel91316]

28. Yeah, the poor pitiful put-upon Christians, not being allowed to shove their worship down the

throats of everybody else. That equals shariah law.

Uh huh. Betcha you learned that in homeschool, right?

[CrispyQ]

2. Thanks.

I just donated a few buck to FFRF.

[cordelia]

12. Thanks.

I just donated a few bucks to my Mom's church.

[cleanhippie]

18. Is that supposed to be some sort of rebuttal?

[humblebum]

4. If mandatory prayer is banned then that is the right thing to do, however, if

voluntary individual or group prayer is banned, then that would be a violation of freedom of speech, and of free exercise of religion. It's a fine line.

[cleanhippie]

5. Bzzzt! Wrong. None of the above even remotely describe what took place here.

Nothing was "banned". Scheduled sectarian prayer opening a public school board meeting was stopped.


No one told anyone that they could not pray.

[humblebum]

6. And where did I say it was banned? I realize the word "if" is a bit

hard to understand.

[cleanhippie]

8. "If mandatory prayer is banned then that is the right thing to do, however..." Right there you did.

Your post is irrelevant to the topic at hand. You seem to want to argue over something that has not happened anywhere here.

[rexcat]

10. Looks like we are thinking on the same lines!

[cleanhippie]

13. Remember rexcat, humblebum says "where you see contradiction, I see confirmation."

Perhaps my pointing out the fact that none of what he says "if" happened has never actually happened ANYWHERE here in the US, it provides him with confirmation that what actually has not happened really did happen.

I've given up trying to understand him. I'm not sure he really even understands himself sometimes.

[rexcat]

19. I will say one thing for humblebum...

humblebum does not put people on ignore like some in this group, including one host but I am not sure if that is an attribute or not for humblebum.

[humblebum]

11. That word "if" just really has you confused doesn't it? nt

[cleanhippie]

14. No, what has me confused is your insertion into this discussion something that HAS NOT HAPPENED.

I mean, what is your point of bringing up something that HAS NOT HAPPENED HERE, EVER?

[humblebum]

15. So then you are telling me that an atheist group has never attempted to ban

voluntary individual or group prayer anywhere? If such has never happened then your argument has merit. But we both know that is not to be the case. Therefore, I will again stress the word "if."

[cleanhippie]

16. No, I'm telling you that your post is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Maybe a picture can help you see what your post is resulting in.




But since you brought it up, please, show us all where anyone has attempted to attempted to ban voluntary individual or group prayer here. Please, the floor is yours.

[humblebum]

22. Your sidekick seems to know of examples. Maybe you should ask him/her. nt

[cleanhippie]

25. Why don't you go ahead and tell us. Afterall, it was YOU that brought this all up.

Go on, don't be afraid. Give those examples. The floor is yours.

[humblebum]

26. Well i can think of a couple high school graduation ceremonies and some some public

gatherings in the not too distant past. But then again your compatriot has already validated my assertion.

[cleanhippie]

27. Really? People were prevented from praying? Please, elaborate on that, I'd like to know more.

[rexcat]

30. If you are referring to me...

per my profile which you have access to I am a "him." I am not a sidekick to cleanhippie but great minds to think alike unlike your arguments that lack any modicum of logic.

On edit: I would never try to stop anyone from praying but depending on how rude they were I might give some push back after the fact; and one other point, I am not the government and the government has no authority to stop "voluntary" prayer.

[rexcat]

17. What I have noticed...

in most cases with "voluntary" individual or "group" prayer is it is used to disrupt and to shove their religion down everyone else's throats. That is there right but it gets old and they should expect some push back which is also protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution..

[humblebum]

20. Thank you. I just believe you proved my point.nt

[cleanhippie]

21. You had a point? Just what was that point, exactly?

[rexcat]

29. I never said that public prayer should be banned...

so if you think, in some warped way, I made your point that is beyond ridiculous!

[Goblinmonger]

24. There has been no attempt to ban it when not done by the government.

Since having it done by the government is often a constitutional violation, there are times when that is not OK.

[Goblinmonger]

23. Well, if the religious in Pennsylvania start cutting off the heads of atheists

because of these decisions that would be really, really shitty of them.

[rexcat]

9. The "if" is irrelevent...

since it did not happen and private, voluntary prayer will not be banned in the US based on the First Amendment to the Constitution and legal precedent. Per the article your point is of little value to the discussion at hand.

[rug]

31. A drop in the bucket.

[cleanhippie]

32. What does that mean?

I know the saying, I'm asking what it means as it pertains to this OP?

[rug]

33. It means it's a very small victory.

[cleanhippie]

34. You feel it's a victory?

I feel it just the right thing to do.