Wisconsin High School Student Endorses Biblical Death Penalty for Gays

[cleanhippie]

There’s nothing quite like the right to write an article in your school paper endorsing murdering people because you don’t like who they have sex with. That’s what happened in Wisconsin, recently, when 15-year old Brandon Wegner, a Shawano High School student, wrote a column for the editorial page of the Hawks Post that, says the Green Bay Press Gazette, “cites Bible passages and calls homosexuality a sin punishable by death.” A column appearing with Wegner’s, by Maddie Marquardt took the position that gay people “are as compassionate, caring and suitable parents as heterosexuals.” Copies of the student paper went out as inserts this month in the Shawnee Leader, the local paper. (Green Bay Press Gazette has a pdf of both articles, which can be read in full here).

This is, in part, what Wegner had to say:

“If one is a practicing Christian, Jesus states in the Bible that homosexuality is (a) detestable act and sin which makes adopting wrong for homosexuals because you would be raising the child in a sin-filled environment.

“A child adopted into homosexuality will get confused because everyone else will have two different-gendered parents that can give them the correct amount of motherly nurturing and fatherly structure. In a Christian society, allowing homosexual couples to adopt is an abomination.”

He further cites Leviticus 20:13 which states that “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

--snip--

Leave it to Liberty Council, a group supporting Newt Gingrich, to step in at this point. In a gross misuse of the term “bullying” Liberty Council addressed the issue with this headline: “15-Year-Old Student Bullied for Supporting Biblical View of Family.”

http://www.politicususa.com/en/wisconsin-high-school-student-endorses-biblical-death-penalty-for-gays

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Isn't religion a wonderful thing, especially when it is used to demonize and oppress other people?


Question: How does one reconcile the fact that for some, a religion can bring out the best in a person, yet at the same time, it often brings out the worst? And when it brings out the worst, why is "because it's my religion" tolerated as a valid excuse?

[LiberalEsto]

1. Someone should check to see if the little punk

is wearing any clothing made of polyester-cotton.

"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together." (Deut 22:11).

[atreides1]

2. Must be the edited version of the Bible

Nowhere in the NT does Jesus make any explicit statements about homosexuality.

But there is this from the NT:
And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

Some would say that this was a condemnation, but is it really?

[sinkingfeeling]

3. +1 Was just going to point that out.

[obamanut2012]

31. This isn't any type of condemnation of homosexuality

It's condemning divorce, specifically a man divorcing a woman because he's tired of her, or if she can bear no more children, etc., and if a man cannot abide by this, he shouldn't marry.

[MarkCharles]

4. Unfortunate that very selected biblical teachings have more..

weight and authority with this young man than any other teachings from that book, or from his secular school.

To call this young man in and discuss with him the ramifications of his published writings seems to be the farthest thing from "bullying". But, of course, some religious extremists would not see it that way.

I sincerely doubt such long and extensive discussions with the Superintendent were cause for a student to miss critical study time and an exam.

[digonswine]

19. Correct--

The Liberty Counsel has their hands on him now and he will be used as a tool for their evil.

This child was not punished by anyone at the school--at all!!

The Liberty Counsel sent a letter to the school about this, mentioning his rights were infringed upon. Huh? He wrote the bigoted in accurate drivel, got it published, and was not punished. What are they talking about.

Now--people on both sides want heads to roll over this.

BTW--I live in this district and have a "connection" to the school.

[MarkCharles]

23. Thanks for that!

Good to have an "insider's" viewpoint on the district!

[mailman82]

5. A practicing Christian!

That would be a NO! I get such a kick when they use that phrase!

[RevStPatrick]

6. That kid damn well better not be on the football team!

Touching the skin of a pig and all.

He needs Jed Bartlett to get in his face:

[Starboard Tack]

7. And when it brings out the worst....

Some will go out of their way to insult those with different beliefs and expect tolerance and understanding in return.
If you study religious texts, you will always be able to find what you need to promote or attack any moral position. The bible is not a book, but an anthology of myth and folklore. A smorgasbord of fact, fiction, truths, half-truths and untruths. You decide what to load your plate with. Religion doesn't demonize gays, homophobic bigots demonize gays. Some of whom claim to be religious.
So, why would you tolerate "because it's my religion" as a valid excuse? It's only tolerated by those who put that slice of bigotry on their plate.

[skepticscott]

8. And yet another warming over

Last edited Sat Jan 28, 2012, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

of NTS. Where exactly do a lot of homophobic bigots get their attitudes about gays? From extensive personal interaction with them? Nahhhh...Not so much, I'm thinking. From what their version of their religion (which is as valid to them as anyone else's is) tells them.

[Starboard Tack]

10. What is NTS?

[MarkCharles]

12. NTS refers to "No True Scotsman"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[Starboard Tack]

14. Do you live in a B&W world?

A world where all bad things stem from religious perversion? I have no idea where "a lot of homophobic bigots get their attitudes about gays?" Some from RW fundie preachers, maybe. Some from their parents. Some from other kids in school. Where do theophobic bigots get their attitudes about religionists? From extensive personal interaction with them, or from listening to the loudest and most obnoxious voices?

[skepticscott]

27. Where did I ever say

or even imply that all bad things stem from religious perversion? Nowhere. You pretty much just made that up. And would you say it's possible that people get the majority of their bigoted attitudes towards gays as a results of spending a lot of time interacting with gay people? Do you think that there is something real about gay people that would engender that? Or is it likely that a lot of that bigotry stems, directly or indirectly, from religion?

And yes, many anti-theists do get their attitudes about religionists from extensive personal interaction with them (just ask non-believers who have lived in the Bible belt). And from being subjected to the bigoted and idiotic laws that religionists keep trying to ram down everyone else's throat. Is being angry and outraged towards religionists because they champion laws banning gay marriage or mandating the teaching of creationism an example of bigotry?

[Starboard Tack]

28. I agree with everything you say.

And I appreciate your civil and honest response. All I want to point out is that not all people of faith are bigots. On the contrary, most that I know personally are very liberal in their views and are totally accepting of gays and gay marriage and other liberal values. These are the reasonable people. Don't be so eager to paint all believers with the same broad brush. They are fighting to reclaim their religion from the loonies. We're on the same side.

[cleanhippie]

9. Generally, I would agree. Does that same sentiment also apply

To those that use religion as their motivation to perform acts of kindness?

[skepticscott]

11. Of course not

Religious people being nice=religion is good

Religious people being nasty=people are bad

[Starboard Tack]

15. What a crock.

Why do you judge people by their religious beliefs and not their actions? Do they have no redeeming qualities? Holier-than-thou attitudes from any source are despicable.

[MarkCharles]

16. What if their actions are motivated by their religious beliefs?

Don't we need to take that into account ?

[Starboard Tack]

17. Judge people by their actions and deeds.

If those actions and deeds are motivated by their beliefs, then their beliefs should be questioned. That is very different to attacking a person of faith, because you found some absurd quote from the bible. Some Christians use the bible as a guide book. Some of them cherry pick hateful homophobic shit and proselytize in an effort to gain the "holier high ground". These people are assholes. Then there are atheists who do exactly the same thing in an effort to gain the "intellectual high ground" and sometimes they use these quotes to demean and ridicule individuals who adhere to that faith. The latter are bigots too.

[cleanhippie]

22. "If those actions and deeds are motivated by their beliefs, then their beliefs should be questioned.

That is my whole point.


Whether its killing a womans health provider or feeding the hungry on christmas day, both are motivated by the very same belief: the belief in god.


So we are in agreement that "If those actions and deeds are motivated by their beliefs, then their beliefs should be questioned." And the belief that needs to be questioned is the belief in a supernatural deity, right?

[Starboard Tack]

24. Why would you question good deeds, unless there is an ulterior motive?

There is also a big difference between questioning beliefs during the course of friendly conversation and ridiculing those beliefs because they don't conform to one's own.
I understand that these conversations aren't always easy. I've had many myself, but if we stay with logic and calm reasoning, we stand a much better chance of enlightening our audience. Remember, you're dealing with people who have been heavily indoctrinated and they have found comfort and reassurance in their beliefs. So, if you want them to listen, be respectful and hopefully they will reciprocate. Remember, religious leaders have been selling their wares for centuries and they are very good at it. Why? Because people, especially poor people, want to believe in something better than what they have. So they peddle a Heaven and Hell scenario, the carrot and the stick, reward and fear. Breaking through that is not easy.
Let me share with you an interaction I had many years ago, when living in Italy. I was a young guy, living hand to mouth, struggling to survive in a foreign environment. I got into the habit of visiting this beautiful medieval church close to where I lived. I wasn't and never had been catholic, but I liked the place because it was quiet and perfect for me to meditate on life. I never attended any services, but would just slip in occasionally and sit there pondering my life. One afternoon, I was sitting at the back of the church when I noticed this little old woman, dressed in black from head to toe. She shuffled through the door and headed for the candles. She took three and placed money in the box, knelt and said some prayers. Shortly after, I was outside the church in the piazza, the same woman came up to me and asked for money to eat. I asked her if she had eaten that day and she said "No." I was completely broke and told her so, but I remarked that I had seen her pay for candles in the church with money she could have bought food with. She explained that it was more important to light candles for her deceased relatives, so that their souls might be released from purgatory, than it was for her to eat. Well, what was I to do? Slap her and tell her not to be such a fool. I don't think so. As we were talking, the priest drove up in his brand new Mercedes, got out and walked toward us. I then told the woman that she should ask the priest for help. Her response was an adamant "No, I could never do that." There was fear in her voice. So, I said "Don't worry, I'll ask him for you." She protested, but I was determined. As the priest approached, I politely called him over. "Yes, my son, what can I do for you?" he asked. I explained that I wanted nothing, but the old woman, one of his flock, was in need of food, having spent the last of her lira on candles for the souls of her ancestors. He looked at me as if I were demented and replied "Don't be ridiculous, bothering me with such nonsense." He then waddled his portliness away from us and into his sanctuary. I felt badly for the old woman and told her to feed herself in future, before worrying about the souls of her ancestors. The look on her face was one of fear, despair and helplessness. I can only hope she learned, or unlearned something that day.
I learned a lot.

[skepticscott]

26. You're right, it is a crock

But it's not my crock. I'm simply echoing what has been argued here many times...that religion should get credit for the good deeds that religious people do, but that it shouldn't be blamed for the bad things they do (because, by your NTS reasoning, people who do bad things can't possibly be religious or motivated by their religious beliefs).

[Starboard Tack]

29. That's not what I'm saying at all

Lots of bad things are done in the name of religion, every day. It's horrific and disgusting. Give credit to individuals for what they do, regardless of their personal beliefs. If I'm starving, I don't question the beliefs of the man who feeds me. I may question his motives, but not his religious belief. We each have our own journey. How we conduct ourselves is what is important.

[Starboard Tack]

13. Not sure what you mean

[cleanhippie]

18. Yes you do.

Its a simple question, really.

And what does this mean? I missed it the first time I read your post.

"So, why would you tolerate "because it's my religion" as a valid excuse? It's only tolerated by those who put that slice of bigotry on their plate."

[Starboard Tack]

20. I was responding to your OP

I make it quite clear that intolerance is only tolerated by the intolerant.

[cleanhippie]

21. So you DID know what I mean.

Was that just another passive-aggressive attempt to bait me into a fight?

[Starboard Tack]

25. What are you talking about?

Bait you into a fight? What fight?

[obamanut2012]

30. Homosexuality isn't mentioned anywhere in the New Testament

And certainly never in The Gospels, except for where Jesus healed the Centurion's servant=lover. It isn't even really mentioned in the OT, even though people want you to think it is.

That being said, WTF??????? Do they allow Op/Eds on the unbiblicalness of interracal marriage, too?

[MarkCharles]

32. That town must be one heck of an intolerant town! Look at

"Menominee Seventh Grader Suspended for Saying "I Love You" in her Native Language"

http://www.nativenewsnetwork.com/menominee-seventh-grader-suspended-for-saying-i-love-you-in-her-native-language.html

"Miranda and a fellow classmate were talking to each other when Miranda told her how to say "Hello" and "I love you" in Menominee.

"The teacher went back to where the two were sitting and literally slammed her hand down on the desk and said, "How do I know you are not saying something bad?"

The story did not end there. In the next session, another teacher told Miranda she did not appreciate her getting the other teacher upset because "she is like a daughter to me."

And this is a CATHOLIC religious school? What is in the water supply to encourage this kind of bigotry everywhere in town?

[Goblinmonger]

33. I live kind of near by

and have been there before. If Madison, WI is the center of what is blue and progressive in Wisconsin, then Shawano is the Yin to that Yang. (Well, OK, maybe that is really Waukesha but there is certainly a lot of ignorance in the Shawano area).