Atheist jewelry.

[rug]

Dozens more at link.

http://www.etsy.com/shop/surly?section_id=5265740&page=1

[Buzz Clik]

1. That is a lot of energy celebrating the absence of belief.

Almost to the point of evangelism.

[SheilaT]

2. And that is different from

regular evangelism how?

[cbayer]

9. Not different at all. That is the point.

[Buzz Clik]

14. +1!

[enki23]

52. Well, that's stupid. Of course it's different.

If "evangelism" means "telling other people what we think and/or trying to convince them that we are right," then nearly all of us are evangelists for all sorts of things--particularly for things that affect each other's behavior. The word more typically refers to a religious *mandate* to convince people of your religion, because you believe that is something your deity requires. That's why the word is used to broadly define categories of religions that differ on this point.

Assuming a person chose to define atheism as a religion (because she wanted so badly to annoy atheists that she chose define "religion" either ridiculously broadly, or inconsistently, or both), atheism would not qualify as an "evangelical" religion, because there is no evangelical mandate. Because atheism, broadly defined, has no mandates, and no dogma beyond the definition of the name itself.

But I suppose some idiot could decide that, because there are a number of other ideas and values commonly held by atheists, and that convincing religious people that their silly metaphysical claims are wrong was a commonly shared atheist value, that this would qualify atheists as an "evangelical religion." That person, to be consistent, would have to categorize so many different human groups as "evangelical religions" as to make the term fucking meaningless. That is, unless the person just wanted to be an asshole and apply the term inconsistently in an attempt to piss people who know better.

[Phillip McCleod]

61. nail head.. meet hammer. +1000 \n

[cbayer]

63. According to your definition, some atheists are also evangelists, just like some

of their believing counterparts. The question would be whether this falls under the "religious" category that you use. I would argue that it does.

Why would you assume that I want to annoy atheists? I don't. I do, however, object to anti-theists, and that is where I see most of the evangelism.

I hope you are not calling me an idiot and an asshole. That would be really uncool.

[enki23]

66. Er... what? There are atheists who believe their deity requires them to evangelize?

I don't think I said what you think I said. And, in this case, I don't think that's my fault.

[cbayer]

67. While the term can be clearly applied to some religious activity, and to some

christians in particular, it can also be used to describe other kinds of activities.

There are some very zealous non-believers who openly state that they want to see all religion eliminated. They spend a lot of time and energy challenging others to defend and abandon their personal beliefs. They preach reason, rational thought and enlightenment. They believe that they have the one way.

Whether this falls under "religious" evangelism is open for discussion, but probably not relevant in the long run. It feels the same to the recipient, imo.

[enki23]

68. I'm pretty sure you read nothing that I wrote.

.

[cbayer]

81. I'm 100% sure that you are absolutely wrong.

[enki23]

82. Well, then my apologies. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

.

[Buzz Clik]

13. The greatest accident in question posing I've ever witnessed.

There is no difference whatsoever. The notion of evangelical atheists is absolutely laughable.

[SheilaT]

18. I do know exactly what you're talking about in the first place.

I have absolutely no issue with the atheist perspective, especially as I'm a non-believer myself. But I have come across the militant atheists you refer to, and they're every bit as annoying as the in-your-face Christians.

I want to say, Hey everybody! Please feel free to believe whatever you wish, but please realize that most of us sincerely do not want to be converted to your beliefs.

I do enjoy having good conversations with people who have different beliefs from mine, so long as they're not focused on trying to convert me to their beliefs. Also, while I myself have very strong beliefs, I don't feel as if the validity of them depends on others believing the same way. Really. Others can (and often do) completely disagree with me, and that's okay. I still feel that my understanding of how the Universe works is a good one, but nothing changes by who believes in it. It's not beliefs that create reality.

[LostOne4Ever]

5. Its more like

Last edited Mon Jun 3, 2013, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Its more like we atheists are a highly discriminated and hated group. This is a way of coming out and making our presence known. This will help break the stereotypes and show that there are more of us out there than people realize, and that we are normal people just like anyone else.

[Buzz Clik]

15. Most atheists are invisible and not hated at all. The discrimination, however, is real.

Atheists will get nowhere trying to ridicule believers for their beliefs. It's been done throughout human history, and faith in God seems to be as strong as ever.

My suggestion to those who feel discriminated against is to continue with legal battles.

[LostOne4Ever]

21. I guess im not seeing the ridicule

I can see some of them being upfront and confrontational, but I don't see any ridicule.

While there is alot of atheism jewelry not all of it is about atheism. The section of the store these are all listed under is "Science or Smart Jewelry" and many of the items having nothing to do with gaming at all. For instance I can't see what:

And And

have to do with Atheism. I see jewelry for equality, feminism, and science in there too.

is definitely confrontational but I don't see it as ridiculing anyone. Further it could apply to something other than atheism.

The ones that come the closest to ridicule in my mind are:

and and .

"Reality is my Religion" and the "Science" one I can see it be taken as ridicule, but at the same time I can see those statements being made with no ridicule in mind. Science saves lives seems more like imitation to me.

[Buzz Clik]

23. Do you know any really, really stupid atheists?

Do you know any geneticists of world renown who are also highly religious?

Yes on both for me.

I hope that this silly atheist evangelism is limited to a bunch of trolls at DU looking for a fight. However, I'm becoming suspicious that it's just a bunch of ignorant people who have no idea what they're fighting against.

[Agschmid]

44. *

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
At Tue Jun 4, 2013, 07:18 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Do you know any really, really stupid atheists?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=82803

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

The debate does get heated in the religion forum, but generally we draw the line at broad brushed insults targeting any of the groups participating in the forum. This post crosses the line, please hide this post.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jun 4, 2013, 07:30 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I just don't find what was said to be out of line.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I understand the alerters passion on the issue, but I don't feel this really crosses a line and must vote to leave alone. Please continue to argue your feelings in the thread.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: A debate in a sub-thread that is getting a little to heated, but nothing that breaks DU rules.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Buzz Clik]

45. Atheists with thin skins. Go figure.

I guess that's why they need a line of atheist jewelry.

[LostOne4Ever]

58. There is no way to tell if the person who alerted the post was an atheist or not

That said, I was not the one who posted the alert. While I disagree with your position I saw nothing objectionable.

I still see the jewelry mainly as a way to let others know that we are not alone. I'm the only atheist I know of in my part of the country, and I know if I were to see someone wearing the null set, IPU, AA, or FSM symbols it would make me and those in similar situations feel a lot less isolated, and would also allow theists to see that we are more than the caricatures you see on TV.

Seeing a gay person wearing a shirt saying "I'm here, I'm Queer" shirt does not constitute evangelism for homosexuality does it? I see this as the same.

[demokatgurrl]

55. Invisibility is a problem

I talk to a lot of people who don't even realize that they actually know atheists. Visibility is a good thing.

[Buzz Clik]

56. The absence of a trait (belief) needs to be made visible? Why?

"I don't watch tv. I'm going to establish a clothing line that proclaims my lack of watching."

Strange.

[LostOne4Ever]

59. For the same reason it was important for the gay rights

Just as the out campaign for homosexuals allowed gays to realize they were not alone, and humanized them to the masses; so too does making non-believe more visible allow us to feel not as isolated and to humanize us to those who think we are hellspawn.

[Phillip McCleod]

62. i disagree.. ridiculing beliefs can be a most excellent rhetorical device..

..and as for faith in god.. sorry.. it might *seem* as strong as ever to you..

..but it's *not*.

[cbayer]

65. Do you think ridiculing lack of beliefs is an excellent rhetorical device?

Neither works for me.

[rexcat]

7. I would appreciate...

more clarification as to why it appears to you that the jewelry is "almost to the point of evangelism" or is this just flame baiting on your part?

[Buzz Clik]

16. Not flame baiting at all. I find the OP to be flame bait -- intentional and obvious.

I am not only sympathetic with atheists, I am probably just a hair of doubt away from being an atheist myself. I find no reason to celebrate my non-belief. I am not insecure enough in my doubts to make big, outward efforts to recruit others to my point of view.

I just don't get it. Not embracing something (like religion) should not involve spending tremendous time, energy, and money fighting religion. Just don't believe in God. You don't have to hate him.

[rexcat]

69. I always find it hard...

to "hate" something that, for all practical purposes, has no proof of existing, such as a god. And as far as "hate" goes that is one ugly emotion. All hate does is rot the hater from the inside out.

I really don't see where the original OP was flame bait. I think you have overstated your case!

I am not only sympathetic with atheists, I am probably just a hair of doubt away from being an atheist myself.

and I am sure you have a bunch of atheist friends! - I just could not resist the comment and you left yourself open for the comment.

[Goblinmonger]

8. No.

It's not. It's nothing like evangelism. Nice try, though.

[Buzz Clik]

17. Really? Wearing jewelry declaring and celebrating non-belief is not a trait of evangelism?

Sorry, but it is.

[Goblinmonger]

24. So anyone who wears a cross

is an evangelist Christian?

[Buzz Clik]

25. Let's take this back a step:

What in your mind constitutes evangelism?

Is there such a thing as an evangelistic atheist?

[Goblinmonger]

36. Evangelism (if we discount the specific Christian sect) is about conversion.

Perhaps there may be somewhere an evangelistic atheist but I don't feel interested in constructing that strawman. But I do no see anything in any of that jewelry that is focused on "conversion" to atheism.

You haven't answered my question: Is anyone who wears a cross, according to your definition, an evangelist?

[Buzz Clik]

38. The answer, of course, is no.

But that's because the cross actually symbolizes an entire system of beliefs and wearing the cross is a personal statement of embracing that belief.

Atheism is a lack of belief and, until recently, was not an organized system of non-belief.

For my money, the OP is simply dragging a stick across the bars of the cage just trying to elicit a reaction. Some DU atheists need to become more comfortable in who they are without feeling the need to constantly pound on those who believe.

[Goblinmonger]

39. Isn't that convenient

So when an atheist wears something that is symbolic of their "belief," they are being evanglists.
When a Christian wears something that is symbolic of their "belief," they aren't.

There is no organized system of non-belief. That's your first misstep.

Of course the OP is fishing for a response. You don't think yours was one of the possible reactions that was being looked for--"Oh noes, the atheists are as bad as the fundies!"

I'm very comfortable in who I am. And I see nothing in the jewelry posted in the OP that is "pounding on those who believe." Which isn't really the definition of evangelism, btw.

[Buzz Clik]

40. "There is no organized system of non-belief. That's your first misstep." Yeah, right.

There are no atheist camps for kids to go to.

No atheist advertising on billboards and buses.

No atheist jewelry being sold on the internet.

No atheist messiahs roaming the globe spreading the gospel, selling books, and getting booked on speaking tours and tv shows.

Nope. No signs of an atheist organization there.

And I see nothing in the jewelry posted in the OP that is "pounding on those who believe."

Now, that's just bullshit. At least half of those pieces are giving the finger to organized religion, some of them with no subtlety whatsoever. You even said as much in an earlier post.

Have the last word. This has become tiresome.

[rexcat]

70. and...

Some DU atheists need to become more comfortable in who they are without feeling the need to constantly pound on those who believe.

That is a two-way street. I can safely say that Christians are more likely to try to pound their beliefs on someone than any atheist would. Truly you are showing your biases here.

[Buzz Clik]

71. Biases? This thread discusses atheists who have created a line of jewelry celebrating nonbelief.

We are not discussing Christian envangelism at all -- which is undeniable. Nor have I even remotely implied that Christians are not evangelical.

However, there is no argument in the world -- particularly yours -- that will dissuade me from thinking that reveling in one's atheism (i.e., atheistic evangelism) is anything but ridiculous.

[rexcat]

73. I was responding to your comment...

and "atheistic evangelism" is a ridiculous statement usually made by people who are flame baiting.

[Bay Boy]

26. As an atheist I would have to say it is like evangelism...

...the person wears it in order to start a conversation. The conversation leads to the atheist wanting to say why their POV is right.

[Goblinmonger]

37. So when I wear my "The Dude Abides" tshirt

I'm a Coen evangelist?

[Rob H.]

41. No, you're an evangelist of the Church of the Latter-Day Dude

Yes, there really is such a thing (and I was just kidding about evangelist part). Now that I've found it, I really want this on a t-shirt:

[Goblinmonger]

46. I'm looking for a cargo vest

Bought my tickets for Lebowskifest Milwaukee and would love to go as Walter.

That would be an awesome shirt.

[Bay Boy]

47. I would have no idea...

...what that meant. Is it connected to the picture that looks like the DaVinci drawing?

[Goblinmonger]

49. You must go watch Big Lebowski

And not just so you get the point, but so that you will have seen an awesome movie.

My point is that if I wear something just to start a conversation, does that make me an evangelist? I have a sriracha sauce t-shirt. If I wear that and have a conversation and say how incredibly awesome spicy red sauce is, does that make me an evangelist? And if so, that word has become meaningless.

[Bay Boy]

50. Big Lebowski...

...is that the bowling movie? Not sure I've even seen it listed on my cable system.

Just searched and found it on my TV. I shall record it. And I see the info doesn't mention bowling.

[Goblinmonger]

51. There is bowling in there

but that's more just a plot device.

It is actually a Coen Brothers take on the Raymond Chandler novels in general and Big Sleep most specifically.

Watching the edited for TV version will not give you the full experience of nearly 260 "fucks" in the movie (2.2/minute) but will give you a lot of the great lines.

[Bay Boy]

53. I want 2.2 fucks per minute!!!

Sounds exciting, might kill me, but I'll die with a smile on my face.

[Lordquinton]

74. 2.2 a minute

You know, there's a little blue pill for that.

[rexcat]

72. In my expereinces...

a lot christians are clueless concerning atheist symbols, let alone the "leaders" of the atheist movement. The more religious, typically the more clueless. I also find religious people in this country to be less inquisitive and ill informed about other belief systems. I travel all over the US and when I get into a conversation with someone who is religious I will not bring up my lack of religious beliefs. Too much potential grief with that discussion.

[Bad Thoughts]

3. Love "citation needed"

Though it might make me seem too academic.

[rug]

4. I'm partial to the first one.

[Lordquinton]

75. I want that one

I use that almost daily, and in no way connected to religious arguments.

[LostOne4Ever]

6. Nice variety

Philosophically I think the empty set symbol makes the most sense as far as a symbol goes. In particular i like the one from the religious tolerance website. But that version has not caught on as much:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/emptyset.gif



But the IPU symbol looks pretty cool and its there as is the FSM.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheistpu.gif


http://www.religioustolerance.org/fsm.png

[cbayer]

10. There are two types of things here.

On one end is the "This is what an atheist looks like", which I like very much. I think it leads to open discussion and has the potential to decrease discrimination and increase understanding.

On the other end is the "Prove it", which is rather hostile, provocative and unlikely to lead to any productive discussion.

[rug]

11. Well, there is the binary "love" on the heart.

Rather romantic.

[cbayer]

32. That kind of appeals to me, in a weird sort of way.

While not a big fan of Deepak Chopra, I heard him this week on "Wait, wait" and he was really funny.

He also said some really interesting things about his transition from traditional medicine to whatever one wants to call what he does now.

He talked about how you can give someone a dopamine rush just by uttering a few words to them.

The question of whether there is more than just a neurochemical reaction as the basis of human emotion is fascinating to me.

[Goblinmonger]

12. It is clearly a response to,

and is far less hostile than, the vast amount of people wearing "Jesus saves" and millions of other variants. I'm sure if those (including the "Jesus died for your sins" billboards all over the place) weren't around, the "Prove It" would not be there.

[Bad Thoughts]

22. The "Prove It" slogans don't seem particularly "atheist" to me

Many groups could embrace them, though they might be slogans that foster values among atheists.

[cbayer]

29. It reminds me of this

It's that very confrontational approach that some people take.

But I agree that it can definitely been seen within other kinds of groups, including some religious groups.

At any rate, it descends to the basic "prove it/disprove it" debate, which I find utterly useless.

[Bad Thoughts]

31. I see your point

However, I would like to see more decisions made based on empirical evidence rather than rhetorical banter.

[Bay Boy]

48. How about this slogan instead...

I'M AN ATHEIST
DON'T HATE ME
DEBATE ME

How's that sound?

[cbayer]

64. Much better.

Would the same be true if applies to different kinds of believers?

[dimbear]

19. I wish I could show you all my tiepin. A tiny gold question mark.

Agnostic jewelry.

[LostOne4Ever]

20. That sounds pretty cool! (nt)

[rug]

28. Much better than a tiny gold exclamation point.

[cbayer]

30. I like that and it could be applied to all kinds of things, not just religion.

[DetlefK]

27. I think, the thunder-god's jewelry is better.

[merimint]

33. My favorites have come from EvolveFISH.com

They practically invented atheist jewelry way back when the Darwin fish was the only thing available. And they provide great customer service and a broad range of products at http://evolvefish.com/fish/jewelry.html

[rug]

34. Welcome to DU!

This is a clever one at that link.



The Chinese ideogram for peace.

[hrmjustin]

35. Welcome to DU and welcome to the religion room.

[Fumesucker]

42. That's some tacky, tacky shit, not all atheists are seven year old boys

If you're going to have an atheist "symbol" at least make it classy looking and distinctive.

I made a Star of David for a Jewish friend a while back, he's been wearing it ever since, African blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylon) on briar burl with a high gloss lacquer finish, it's between the size of a quarter and fifty cent piece.

[cbayer]

43. That is a beautiful piece.

I am in Santa Fe, nm right now and saw a great deal of religious jewelry. Some of it was stunning.

I am currently wearing an amulet given to me by my son. It's a St. Christopher medal where he is holding a surfboard. It's pretty cool, and even though I don't really think it has power, I find myself engaging with it from time to time.

[okasha]

60. That's very handsome.

n/t

[enki23]

54. Breast cancer awareness jewlery!

I imagine you think you have a point. You don't.

[rug]

57. I didn't make the jewelry.

Since you like ribbons, here's one for you.

[longship]

76. Oh physics! Save us from metaphysics.

Although I don't universally adhere to the sentiment expressed in my title here, I do think that is what is expressed by this jewelry. Most of them express what any scientist would express, whether they believed in gods or not.

I don't wish to tread that perilous pathway of the demarcation problem of what is science and what is not. But I think all here would agree that things like physics, chemistry, and biology are science and things like Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, and their like are not.

I do not adhere to the Non-overlapping magisteria explanation of Stephen J Gould for the same reason. It's the demarcation problem all over again. But, I firmly agree that where religion and science collide it is very likely religion which is treading on science's turf.

But I would not call jewelry that expressed support for science as atheistic anymore than I would call science atheistic. It is much more complicated than that and there is no clear line of demarcation in areas where things get fuzzy. That line may be debated through late night hours by philosophers -- more power to them -- but that's not physics, it's metaphysics.

Like many characterizations of atheists, these things may be necessary, but are insufficient to understand what it means to be an atheist.


Just some random thoughts on a Thursday afternoon.

[rug]

77. I bet you'd like this.

[longship]

78. Well, if I wore earrings, I might.

But then I might have to explain wave equations every time I wore them to a bar. That's no mean feat after a couple of beers. It's worse after a couple of martinis, or even one.

A T-shirt I used to wear regularly had the RSA trap door algorithm equations on it. It was fun explaining that to people at a bar.

And then there's:

And God said:

And then there was light.

I had a T-shirt with that on it when I in my senior year in physics.

Another:

Heisenberg may have been here.


Fun stuff!

[rug]

79. That's pretty funny and I don't even like math.

[longship]

80. Well, all the math in my post was sophomore level stuff.

Yup! In physics one had better be comfortable with math.

I have since forgotten a lot. It's been a long time since I've done anything in my degree field. But I still appreciate the elegance and conciseness of what the equations state. Physicists call it beauty.

That's another T-shirt I wore in my senior year:

Physics.
Truth.
Beauty.

[gervat]

83. Where did you find these earring ???

Wow! I love them!
Where did you find these H psi - E psi earring?
I want to buy the same !
I had a look at google, but not luck
Do you think you can help ?
Many thanks in advance
Lo

[rug]

84. Welcome to DU!

You can get them on etsy.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/91069869/schrodinger-equation-quantum?ref=sr_gallery_33&ga_search_query=physics+earrings&ga_page=2&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

$11.50.