When religious beliefs become evil

[SecularMotion]

(CNN) – An angry outburst at a mosque. The posting of a suspicious YouTube video. A friendship with a shadowy imam.

Those were just some of the signs that Tamerlan Tsarnaev, accused of masterminding the Boston Marathon bombings, had adopted a virulent strain of Islam that led to the deaths of four people and injury of more than 260.

But how else can you tell that someone’s religious beliefs have crossed the line? The answer may not be as simple you think, according to scholars who study all brands of religious extremism. The line between good and evil religion is thin, they say, and it’s easy to make self-righteous assumptions.

“When it’s something we like, we say it’s commitment to an idea; when it’s something we don’t like, we say it’s blind obedience,” said Douglas Jacobsen, a theology professor at Messiah College in Pennsylvania.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/28/when-religious-beliefs-becomes-evil-4-signs/comment-page-44/

[hrmjustin]

1. When it causes you to harm or impose discrimination on another.

[trotsky]

4. Who defines what "harm" means?

Are religions that practice ritual circumcision evil?

Those who believe that homosexuality is a violation of god's law think that a religion preaching acceptance of homosexuality is causing a great deal of harm. Whose religion is evil in that case?

[hrmjustin]

5. Telling gay people that they are a sin, abomination, or evil is just plain wrong and evil.

As for the word harm I mean when it teaches you to bring physical harm to someone. I am not commenting on circumcision.

[Phillip McCleod]

7. how can you convince people who believe the opposite as strongly as you?

you are shielded by faith. they are shielded by faith.

nothing can ever change this way.

[hrmjustin]

8. I don't know. When people are so convinced of something it is very hard to change their mind.

[trotsky]

9. That is your judgment.

Other Christians disagree. Thus it shows just how important it is to determine who gets to decide what "harm" means - your initial statement made it seem so simple, but I assure you it is not.

And I can certainly understand why you don't want to talk about circumcision here. On another thread, a poster was opposed to it but OK if it happened as part of a religious tradition. What a double standard! Unfortunately it is this unwillingness to talk about the tough questions and really analyze the role of religion in the equation that leads to so many political problems. I'd rather talk about the 700 pound gorilla in the room than ignore it.

[hrmjustin]

10. Harm means physical or mental harm, and discrimination.

[trotsky]

11. Once again, all subject to YOUR judgment.

Other Christians, other believers, will have different opinions on what constitutes harm. No wonder you don't want to comment on circumcision.

It just seems like you are unwilling to think past a certain point - you declare how it should be, then the dialog stops. Which is eerily close to what happens when trying to dialog with right-wing fundies (which I'm not saying you are, just comparing the behavior). A behavior that is best summed up by an actual bumper sticker I've seen:

"God said it, I believe it, that settles it."

Which of course begs so many questions it's ridiculous. But that's as far as you seem willing to go. It's frustrating.

[hrmjustin]

13. Yes it is my opinion. If you have more questions my friend I will try to answer them.

[trotsky]

14. I do have more questions,

but you've already declared you won't answer them.

So there we are.

[hrmjustin]

15. I said I will not comment on circumcision, anything else go ahead.

[trotsky]

17. Sorry but no thanks.

The precedent you've set is that you're willing to discuss an issue, but only to a point where you have to think about the tough questions, then you bail. I don't see much coming out of a small talk discussion, which appears to be the only kind you're willing to have.

[hrmjustin]

18. OK! If you change your mind then go for it.

[trotsky]

20. And if you change your mind...

...and are willing to tackle the serious and difficult questions, let me know.

[LTX]

21. Who decides what "harm" means when

religion is not the source of action or belief?

And out of curiosity, do you believe that circumcision in general is evil? Or evil only if part of a religious ritual?

[trotsky]

22. The topic of this thread is religious beliefs.

Feel free to start another thread to address another topic!

[Thats my opinion]

16. And that means any group which holds itself

to be the bearer of all truth, and everyone else to be in error--and this means condemned.

[trotsky]

19. Democrats think Republicans are in error on many things.

Tax policy, unions, abortion, energy policy, etc.

Does that make Democrats dangerous? Are their beliefs evil?

You yourself have made all sorts of declarations on what is or isn't modern Christianity, telling millions of Christians all over the world that they are in error. Are your beliefs evil?

[madrchsod]

2. interesting...

[dimbear]

3. It's a little like wild mushrooms. You're safest if you just leave them all alone. n/t

[Phillip McCleod]

6. yikes. when i asked here in 'religion' and in 'gen. discussion' where that line was..

..after the boston bombings.. the results were not pretty. i was called both an imperialist and a bigot. still kinda stings.

the short answer is.. this isn't going away because the religions 'Of The Book' to use the Islamist term have clearly immoral passages, that anyone can read at any time and interpret however they choose.

as long as the words are written down that way, people are going to interpret them the way they were intended.

you know.. the way god meant Joshua to understand them at the end of the exodus.

'kill them all, the babies and livestock too, or you get *nothing*'

[cbayer]

12. The four major signs they point out are worth noting.

1. I know the truth, and you don’t.
2. Beware the charismatic leader.
3. The end is near.
4. The end justifies the means.

Some of this can be applied to non-religious movements that have become extreme as well. They may also be indicators of a serious psychiatric illness which might need to be evaluated.

Overall, it's a difficult line to draw at times, with extremes at both ends. Some want to call all religious belief evil while others embrace religious extremism.