Nearly Half of LGBT People Claim No Religion

[cbayer]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/candacechellew-hodge/7145/nearly_half_of_lgbt_people_claim_no_religion/

June 14, 2013 12:28pm
Post by CANDACE CHELLEW-HODGE

As someone who has been criticized by the LGBT community for remaining in a religion— namely, Christianity—that does not want me, it's not shocking to me that a new Pew Research poll shows nearly half of all LGBT people claim no religious affiliation.

The survey showed 48% of the LGBT population claims no religious affiliation, compared to 20% of the general public. Even among LGBT people who do embrace religion many are closeted or hiding in congregations with 33% saying "there is a conflict between their religious beliefs and their sexual orientation or gender identity."

LGBT people find Muslims the most unfriendly of the religions, with Mormons, Catholics and Evangelical Churches following. 53% found non-Evangelical Protestant churches either the most friendly or neutral toward LGBT people.

The Catholic finding is the most—and least—surprising to me. Surprising because a recent Quinnipiac poll found 54% of Catholic laity support same-sex marriage, while just 38% oppose it. Of course, it's not surprising that the Catholic church appears unfriendly overall, since its leadership, even under the new Pope Francis, remains staunchly committed to Catholic doctrine declaring LGBT people "intrinsically disordered." Those aren't exactly welcoming words.

more at link

[skepticscott]

1. Very surprising

Since we know from reliable sources that most of the religious seminaries in the world teach a loving, accepting and affirming attitude towards them. And their religions no doubt follow suit. Why in the world would the LGBT community feel unwelcome?

[durbin]

3. Almost all major western religions have such a long and deeply inspiring history of treating

gay people so well, affirming their value and contributions to the human community.

Why, it was only yesterday that I saw a video of a Christian preacher just last year.

Well, maybe not....

[hrmjustin]

11. It took me many tries to find a denomination that welcomed me.

[cbayer]

12. Most of my GLBT friends have joined Epsicopal, UU or Church of Christ congregations.

A number have had fabulous church weddings which will go down in my history as some of the most moving, meaningful and fun events I have ever attended.

A couple have remained Catholic, but they have chosen their congregations very carefully.

I don't have any who have remained in a church where they had to remain closeted.

[hrmjustin]

13. Having to remain closeted is abuse to me.

I could not imagine going back in the closet.

[cbayer]

14. Agree and most of my friends are firmly out.

But I understand that there are places where that is not possible and church choice very limited.

[David__77]

2. I would think the number would be higher.

As a gay person, I'm surprised when I meet a religious gay person. I do live in California, so that might have something to do with it...

[cbayer]

4. Interestingly, I would say that most of the GLBT people I know are religious, although

I know quite a few who are not.

My closest friends have found churches that embrace them and have experienced a sense of asylum that they really haven't gotten elsewhere.

Last night, I met the new minister of the UU church in the community I am visiting. Heavily tattooed, married, lesbian, vibrant and exceptionally engaging.

She will change the lives of many, I predict.

edited to add that I am also in California.

[durbin]

5. I have known many gay people who left a church but then again

I know many straight people who have left a church, too.

I think the numbers are pretty much undisputed among people of faith and those not belonging to or following a faith

The numbers of people un-affiliated with a religion in the USA and in many other western nations, (Europe in particular), is going up, and the numbers of people affiliated with a religion in both the USA and western nations in going down. And for more than a few, this has to do with the clash of values, both about gay people and about the treatment of women, and other issues, where religions seem to lag so far behind the quickly changing trends.

I'm not sure why some gay people stick with a religion, it probably is for many different reasons, all individual reasons. It's a mystery to me, but it may have to do with some or many people's need to feel they are a member of a community of some sort, and they have chosen a religious community as opposed to a more secular one.

[cbayer]

6. You are correct about the current trend of people leaving religious institutions -

the rise of the "nones".

It will be interesting to see whether this group starts affiliating with other kinds of organizations or whether new religious institutions emerge which better meet their needs and share their values.

As to why "some gay people" stick with a religion, I would say they do it for exactly the same reasons that straight people do.

[durbin]

7. Agreed. Gay people and straight people aren't much different

But I don't find any messages from the major western religions that attempt to change straight people's sexuality, or even major religions that attempt to expel them for being sexually unfaithful; indeed straigh people are most often welcomed back into the fold.

Yes, I'm aware of some of the Orthodox Jewish practices around divorce, the "get". And I'm aware of Catholicism's restrictions upon divorced folks, and the need for annulments for full re-entry into that faith. Then I look at someone like Mark Sanford speaking today at the family values based "Faith and Freedom Conference" (True!).

With all that going on for heterosexuals and marriage and human rights and forgiveness, even for the Mark Sanfords of the world, I kind of have to think that gay people might have a few more really valid reasons to leave their faith behind, whereas heterosexuals seem to get a free pass over and over back into the fold. Gay people, not so much.

[cbayer]

8. You are again correct. Some of the worst anti-GLBT vitriol comes

from religious groups. But there are also religious groups that affirm GLBT people in ways that they may not find in other organizations. My experience has been that GLBT of faith find those organizations.

[MellowDem]

9. Because religions discriminate against them...

it forces many more GLBT people to critically examine their beliefs than for others. If you're relatively privileged in your society, your religion likely first established (and upholds) those privileges.

Given that very few people truly care whether the things they are indoctrinated into as children are actually true, few people ever look into their beliefs and are quite satisfied with convenient cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty. But when you are the target of those beliefs, holding that belief can be so uncomfortable and problematic that people who would otherwise be apathetic like most finally apply critical thinking to religion.

And you get less believers as a result. Not exactly surprising.

[cbayer]

10. I agree that people that are spurned or even condemned by an institution are

much more likely to leave the institution than those that are not.

I do not agree, however, that very few people ever look into or question their beliefs. While some may not, many more do. Some who do this leave or change while many others stay or become even more religious.

[MellowDem]

18. No, most do not question in religion...

and it's set up that way, starting with childhood indoctrination. Critical thinking on the subject of religion is often discouraged, indeed, existence of a particular god is stated as fact from before the time a child has critical thinking capabilities. And, once a child does gain the ability to question, there are thousands of years of apologetics that have developed, full of horrible logic and reasoning, that is there to answer their questions on the inconsistencies of the religion, and for most people not trained in formal logic, it's very convincing, especially if they're just looking for some explanation.

Given the claims of a book like the Bible, which are extraordinary, you'd figure most Christians would have read it themselves, but they don't. There is no way they can have a deep questioning of their beliefs without even reading the text on which it is based.

That's because most don't care about religion as a belief system. Religion is a social function, or a family tradition, or a cultural identity, or all three, but certainly not a guide to live one's life by for the majority here in the US. That's why they easily ignore the beliefs they supposedly subscribe to on a day to day basis. It's cognitive dissonance, but it's not the kind that makes them uncomfortable. What makes them uncomfortable are the terrible beliefs themselves, and the prospect of losing social, family, or cultural capital etc. as a result of really examining beliefs. So ignoring them is their first and best line of defense.

In the US, the cost of leaving a church your indoctrinated into is becoming less and less though, so more feel free to question the belief system.

[cbayer]

19. And how do you know that most never question and all your other theories about how most

religious people are raised? I'd be interested in the data that supports those assertions. Or is that just your anecdotal experience? You certainly do have some pretty dogmatic stances on this, but they don't take into account the vast variety of religious people and religious upbringing.

It appears that you have been exposed to fundamentalist religion(s) and perhaps not much else. I will accept your theories as reflecting the experiences, behaviors and motivations for some, but certainly not for all.

You may need to broaden your experience so you can be more specific about exactly who you are describing.

[MellowDem]

22. Statistics on Bible reading and religious growth...

which they've been doing for a while. Plus, if you hold to the idea of faith, then you don't question by definition. Believing without evidence precludes questioning.

I wasn't raised in a fundamentalist religion. I was indoctrinated in a very moderate religion actually, and during my time as a believer I met other believers from different faiths and attended their services as well.

Anectdotal evidence, including myself, showed that every believer, fundamentalist or not, engaged in extensive cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty on the subject of their religious beliefs, and that most were very uncomfortable ever getting into it at all, and that most knew little to nothing about their own belief systems, and indeed most did not follow them very well, and most pick and choose if they have to, and that there is a whole lot of very poorly thought out apologetics.

Statistics just backs up the anectdotal evidence. Like the number of Catholics that use birth control, for example.

I think progressive religions engage in far more intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance about their sacred texts like the Bible than fundamentalists do. Indeed, fundamentalists are often much more consistent, which shows why so many educated people are turned away from them, and progressive religions are just trying to adapt to survive in a more educated world, as religions have always had to do. The Mormons changed the rules on polygamy when it became politically necessary. They changed their rules on black people when it became socially necessary. That's just a recent example, but it's something every religion engages in to stay relevant, otherwise they die off.

[cbayer]

27. I've seen the data on bible reading, but not on much of anything else you state as "fact".

You have clearly established your POV about this and appear unlikely to entertain other ways of seeing it.

That's ok, but I hope that you meet more people who defy your preconceived notions about people of faith.

I find your perspective rigid and intolerant, but it suits you for reasons that I can't begin to understand.

Honestly, I have enjoyed engaging with you and hope to do so in the future, but for now I find the debate circular and will let you have the last word.

See you around the campfire.

[LostOne4Ever]

15. I really dont see it as being surprising

Why would people want to be associated with (I do not mean to be offensive here...just honest) the institution that persecutes them the most?

I would think that LGBT people would be those most likely to see hypocrisy in institutions that claim to preach Love, but then go out of their way to make life hell for those who "love" the wrong person? If anything, like the author, im surprised that the number isn't higher than that.

Its my understanding that neo-pagan religious groups are very accepting of LGBT individuals. Maybe that explains why its not higher. I wonder if there is a bigger percentage of neopagans among the 55%.

That would probably be pretty interesting now that I think about it: How does the belief of 55% who claim to be religious differ. How many of them are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Neopagan, and so forth.

[cbayer]

16. Interestingly, the statistic in the first paragraph focus on affiliation, not belief.

So, I agree, it is not surprising. What is saddest is that so many that have stayed report that they are closeted within their congregations.

I think that is changing, and in some areas changing very rapidly. The author makes the interesting point that GLBT people that have stayed in religious organizations may be responsible for some of the rather dramatic change in some denominations.

[LostOne4Ever]

17. Makes sense

If you can't beat them, change their minds =)

I wish them the best of luck

[Bohunk68]

28. That is exactly what my now-deceased

partner and I believed and did. I am still a member and still just as openly gay as I was before. Yes, I throw it in their faces, because otherwise they can willfully ignore us. I make it so we cannot be ignored and at the same time, throw the teachings of the rabbi from Nazareth right at them. Don't argue with me, argue with Him.

[cbayer]

31. Good for you.

I think change from within can be so powerful but also difficult for those that do it.

[pink-o]

20. I'm a straight woman, and I'm an atheist

I can count about 14 gay friends--real friends, whom I love and spend a lot of time with--and only one doesn't believe in God or practice a religion.

As for my straight friends, aside from myself only 2 others are atheists. So seems to me we're outnumbered in all communities!

[cbayer]

21. Your experience may be statically normative in terms of the region where you live.

I am assuming you are in SF, based on your avatar, and I suspect there are more GLBT affirming churches available there.

But that's just a supposition on my part.

[pink-o]

23. You're right I'm in SF

But most gay folks are critical thinkers out of necessity, and I don't believe they become atheists in other cities because of a perceived rejection by religion. Chely Wright is from some red southern state and is deeply religious. So is my friend Sylvia, who is Mexican, Catholic, and Lesbian. I, OTOH, was brought up in this totally tolerant city. in fact, one of my great friends was the organist at Grace Catherdral, a huge, all-encompassing Anglican congregation here. Even he could not argue me into becoming a believer.

I'm straight, and I don't believe in God, no matter how inclusive the church. Maybe we were born this way!

[cbayer]

26. Totally agree about GLBT people being critical thinkers out of necessity.

Many of my GLBT friends feel very blessed and their spirituality has grown as they have come out.

But some live in areas where coming out can carry significant consequences and finding an accepting church an impossibility.

Bless those that risk themselves personally to make the change. Cheers to your friends Chely and Sylvia and your friend who is the organist. And especially to you, who love and embrace them.

I often think that religiosity has something in common with sexuality and agree with you that we might be born that way.

And most of us live in the grey areas. Who knows where we will go?

It's great to make your acquaintance, pink-o.

[pink-o]

29. Thanks! Right back atcha, CBayer!

But lest anyone think I led you astray, Chely Wright is a country singer and I've never met her. Although from what I know, I would love to be her friend. In fact her story is totally relevant to this discussion, so here's an article from 2 years ago where she explains that she never rejected her faith because she's gay:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chely-wright/gay-christian-country-singer_b_880736.html


Real Christianity, as is posited by that guy Jesus, is all-inclusive and non judgmental. At least from how I interpret it. It's a beautiful philosophy in its pure form, I just don't think it comes from a divine source.

[cbayer]

30. Never heard of Chely, but will put into my Pandora and see what comes up.

I agree with you about real christianity. Although I don't consider my self a believer, I do consider myself a jesus follower in many ways. The lessons I learned from his stories have had a profound and positive influence on my life.

Whatever he was, he certainly did have an impact.

[kwassa]

24. Many of the gay people I know are clergy.

Openly gay clergy, at that.

[cbayer]

25. That is very cool.

I met a woman yesterday who just became the primary minister at a local UCC church. She is heavily tattooed, married to a woman and about as engaging and positive as a person can get.

Religious GLBT people have the power to make profound changes and I embrace all of them that are doing it.

[Zoeisright]

32. And why should they?

Religious bigotry, hatred, and violence toward the LGBT community is legendary.

[cbayer]

33. That is true and I don't blame anyone for leaving the institutions that have persecuted them.