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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 10:19 AM

If you're like me, you struggle with how to INTERACT with others who seem so hard-hearted (edited)

Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:04 PM - Edit history (1)

(I edited the subject line, changing "engage" to "interact" because that's more appropriate. I don't seek out those with different worldviews with the intention of trying to discuss these matters. I simply meant that when I DO find myself interacting with extreme right-wing conservatives, I often have a difficult time...I find myself being passive-aggressive.)

Anyway, maybe others struggle regarding how to interact, especially about issues of compassion and having an open heart, as so many times their words and actions contradict their loudly proclaimed religious beliefs. Though this isn't something necessarily relegated to those who claim the label "conservative."

I know there are many (Limbaugh/Beck crowd) that will never see things the same way. I don't try to interact with them at all; in fact, I detach and avoid them as much as humanly possible.

But I can't help but feel there are many out there who are conflicted...who do have cognitive dissonance and struggle with the inner conflict.

This blog was written in an attempt to at least try to trigger a heart opening and a shift in perspective.

If you're inclined to share it with those you know or like the GD post, I'd appreciate it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002968054



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Reply If you're like me, you struggle with how to INTERACT with others who seem so hard-hearted (edited) (Original post)
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 OP
snappyturtle Jul 2012 #1
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #2
snappyturtle Jul 2012 #3
calimary Jul 2012 #52
snappyturtle Jul 2012 #53
Ricochet21 Jul 2012 #4
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #5
DeSwiss Jul 2012 #18
kimmerspixelated Jul 2012 #6
get the red out Jul 2012 #7
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #8
get the red out Jul 2012 #11
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #12
get the red out Jul 2012 #15
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #16
Fruit of Islam Jul 2012 #17
Kookaburra Jul 2012 #19
Post removed Jul 2012 #20
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #22
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #23
down is up Jul 2012 #40
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #42
Post removed Jul 2012 #47
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #48
japa beads jamie Jul 2012 #49
icymist Jul 2012 #51
Sadge Sun-tastic Jul 2012 #61
icymist Jul 2012 #64
davsand Jul 2012 #65
eager beaver. Jul 2012 #66
icymist Jul 2012 #50
Kookaburra Jul 2012 #25
kimmerspixelated Jul 2012 #28
get the red out Jul 2012 #37
kentauros Jul 2012 #39
lightworker at work Jul 2012 #45
kentauros Jul 2012 #54
Sadge Sun-tastic Jul 2012 #60
kentauros Jul 2012 #62
get the red out Jul 2012 #56
down is up Jul 2012 #41
get the red out Jul 2012 #35
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #27
kentauros Jul 2012 #31
get the red out Jul 2012 #36
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #43
bigmonkey Jul 2012 #63
kentauros Jul 2012 #9
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #14
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #26
kentauros Jul 2012 #29
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #30
kentauros Jul 2012 #32
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #34
lightworker at work Jul 2012 #46
kentauros Jul 2012 #55
get the red out Jul 2012 #57
kentauros Jul 2012 #58
get the red out Jul 2012 #59
davsand Jul 2012 #10
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #13
mother earth Jul 2012 #21
OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #24
mother earth Jul 2012 #33
get the red out Jul 2012 #38
BlueToTheBone Jul 2012 #44
NuttyFluffers Aug 2012 #67
OneGrassRoot Aug 2012 #68

Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 10:39 AM

1. You're too kind! I think people who lack compassion should be pushed out

the way! I know that sounds awful but I find these folks inherently selfish
and they always have resplendent excuses for not helping the down troddened. I think
the best way to handle them is to shun them and go about our ways in helping
those in need. Maybe I'm in a funk this morning but I've lost patience with
the selfish greed that has been sanctioned as if it's the 'right' way to live. And,
"no" I don't feel there are many who are conflicted. imho

I have the distinct feeling this is not going to be a popular reply. Sorry.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 10:47 AM

2. LOL! No, no, it's fine. Believe me, I hear you...

Last edited Mon Jul 23, 2012, 07:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Like I said, I definitely think those who lack compassion and who have no desire for justice and equality are out there -- and I do shun them. I want nothing to do with them any longer and go out of my way to avoid them.

I lump them together as the Limbaugh/Beck crowd.

I do think there are others who aren't quite so entrenched in their selfishness; they haven't taken a good look at themselves and/or haven't been honest with themselves and thus don't even realize how they treat others...or why they treat people as they do.

Of course, I could be wrong.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 10:54 AM

3. I hope you're right! nt

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 05:21 PM

52. Don't feel bad, snappyturtle. I'm in a funk today too. Been there for a couple of weeks,

but the Colorado massacre really got to me. I've been flamed several times (or at least, considering the mood I've been in, I REGARD it as being flamed) by these never-ending gun apologists who hang on every technicality, every typo, every weird little crumb of minutae regarding definitions and what does and doesn't qualify as such-and-such kind of gun, and I've just lost patience. I no longer feel the need to see their side of it. I find nothing redeeming or excusable in their side anymore, anyway. And I'm sick of hearing the BS from them about how their sacred right to arm themselves any which-a-way they feel like must ALWAYS trump my right to live free of fear of a domestic terrorist or other nutcase, or the lives and safety of those 12 who were murdered and the dozens more who were injured, some still on the critical list.

In the case you're making, I understand and sympathize completely. I'm just kinda out of tolerance and patience with the selfish and greedy and all the reasons they give, even Biblical references, to excuse their hard hearts toward the poor, the needy, the uninsured, the homeless, the hungry, the shat-upon, and the trickled-down-upon. I just don't want to hear from those people anymore and I'm not the least bit interested in their excuses as to why we need to be so mindful and tender and considerate toward what Garrison Keillor refers to as "the suffering of billionaires."

Your post is just fine. Nothing to regret in it, at all, as far as I can see. I think you've summed up what a lot of us are feeling.

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Response to calimary (Reply #52)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 06:49 PM

53. Thank you....now I don't feel so alone with my thoughts!

In the last 15 years I've gone from having it all to doing OK to the present: struggling.
It's been a trip. The good part is that I have gotten to know a lot of people who weren't
as fortunate as I was. Who didn't have the opportunities for the education, the travel, the
healthcare (I miss that alot), and the homes and all that accompanies that life-style. What
makes me angry though is that I always helped people....no matter what their lot. But today
I don't see much of that helpfulness extended from those who could afford to. It's as if a page
of the novel turned and an entirely different world unfolded. I am happy to say though that my
new friends and I help one another AND we're surviving. I worry though that we may not be able
to keep what little we have now...time will tell.

I guess that's where I find your aspect of living without fear poignant. I have enough to worry
about without having to constantly look over my shoulder. With the rise of so many gated communities I would say that is something the rich and poor have in common OR it's just another one of those things the rich don't think people of my status deserve. Some pursue riches. My pursuit of happiness is peace. With my 65th b'day almost here (yea Medicare!) I doubt that I
will live long enough to see the greed dissipate to an "acceptable" level.

Just re-read what I've written. Sounds dreary and some days it is. However, I still have hope that civility and kindness will win out! If not, I will enjoy it where it exists (in my little corner of the world) and be thankful for knowing the joy of it.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:13 AM

4. Let them be where they are

you have no choice
emanate love, that'll get em eventually

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Response to Ricochet21 (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:17 AM

5. I can reach out and extend an invitation to see things differently...

I hope I would respond to seeing things in a different way as well, if a similar invitation to dialogue is extended.

Just doing what I am led to do in a way I'm led to do it, which is to try to gently encourage people to be introspective and honest with themselves.

I'm not trying to change anyone...not trying to save the world. (I know you're thinking that, worried that I deplete myself in the process...)




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Response to Ricochet21 (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 06:14 PM

18. +1000

 

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:26 PM

6. I surely didn't always feel this way,

But I have sympathy and compassion for their narrow-hearted approach to life. Does that make sense? I feel they are closed off to what could be so beautiful if they would just open their eyes. We've all had closed peepers at one point in time. Thank God, even if it was elementary school since we've been there, we graduated to be US! I assume they are on their soul path, maybe they have been playing hooky from all they are supposed to learn here at Earth School. I think with all the new energies of love rays, they are going to find it increasingly difficult to get away with cold-heartedness. All their tools are rusting.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:20 PM

7. What's strange that I see

A lot of righties do have compassion, but they vow that they HATE anything hinting of liberalism. My husband is like this. He came home upset one night that a waitress that was kind to him at Bob Evans was waiting at the bus stop when he left, he thought it was horribly unfair that she probably wasn't making enough money (what we insane liberals would call a "living wage". They just have been turned against verbiage, not all, but a lot of them. And they like hearing a bunch of he-man crap. The compassion is there though, I just have no idea how to convince any of them that we are talking about the same stuff sometimes. The brainwashing on certain terms and ideas is thorough. I keep working on Mike when I we are discussing something we both think is wrong, I make sure not to use politicized words though. The words Fox and Limbaugh have destroyed in our society.

My BIL is a compassionate right leaning guy, he might be reachable, but my sister and he have been fighting since the court upheld Obamacare. He refuses to look at the fact that it will save lives, he says "it's not that simple" every time my sister tells him that. Avoidance. He is convinced it will hurt businesses. His Dad is also an insurance guy. He's also an avid hunter and believes "liberals will take his guns". He will be past Obamacare in another year or so, when it is simply what is. He has bought into that NRA crap though. Funny that his sideline is lovingly producing free range, all natural eggs from happy chickens.

Me, I'm nastier than both those guys and have very strong opinions which I curse freely about, God knows how many people freak out over my indelicacy, so I guess I am Limbaughesque on some things myself (women's rights and animal abuse).

Sorry for the rant, I guess the bottom line in my mind is language. We need to find language that hasn't been destroyed by the right. Key words just shut them down and they stop hearing. Bill Clinton is a master at putting things in a way that the kind of folks you are hoping to reach can get.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:51 PM

8. I need to study Clinton then...

You're so right: Starting back in the early 90's, Limbaugh & Company began to destroy language...and destroy people and relationships in the process.

Thanks for sharing those stories of people you know. It helps.

And, girl, please don't ever refer to yourself as Limbaughesque!!!! We can be mouthy and brazen and anything else, but we are NOT that. We don't lie and distort, we may simply be indelicate.






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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 06:29 AM

11. Well, then I'm an expert

on "indelicate". You should hear my indelicate in full-blown cussing, eastern Kentucky accent mode, LOL.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:49 AM

12. Nice :)

You know I appreciate profanity.

You made me ponder the idea of a dictionary of sorts. What Limbaugh-type right-wingers perceive when they hear a word, versus what it means to most of us on the left.

Which words nowadays stand out as dog whistles for the people you mentioned, like your hubby? (no rush...only if you have time)

I've gotten to a point where it seems we don't speak the same language at all, so I've lost sight of which words are key, other than the obvious: common good, compassion, empathy, social justice.



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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:12 PM

15. I came up with a few loaded words

Change
Equal rights/equality
Feminist
Tax
Regulation
Renewable energy, solar
Secular
Public transportation
Community
Organic
Family (has become THEIR word denoting intolerant views)
Multi-cultural
Tolerance
Social program (basically the word social)
Democratic Party
Undocumented worker
Minority
Women’s health
Gay
Transgender
Climate change/global warming/sea level change
Sustainable
Choice
Liberal/progressive/moderate
Peak oil
Living wage
Fairness doctrine
Peace
Rich

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Response to get the red out (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:58 PM

16. dang...

That's a lot of trigger words!!!

I especially love "basically the word social" --

Thank you, ma'am!



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Response to get the red out (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 05:52 PM

17. Are you equally tolerant of these words:

 

personal responsibility
resourcefulness
independence
spirituality
non-dualism



Tolerance goes BOTH ways and as I read GD, I see very little of it. I see a lot of put-downs and the like.

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Response to Fruit of Islam (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 06:42 PM

19. Wow! A troll on ASAH?

And not a troll from the skeptic group? Don't see that often.

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Response to Kookaburra (Reply #19)


Response to Kookaburra (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:13 PM

22. Both of those accounts was the same repeat troll (Islam and icke.)

Sorry for the interruption. Has been dispatched back to the bridge.

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:23 PM

23. LOL

Thanks!



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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:19 PM

40. I would LOL if your reaction

 

wasn't such blatant hypocrisy.



I am NOT a troll. A troll is someone who goes on boards with no genuine desire to communicate his or her truth, but rather simply to upset the apple cart. I stand by my hidden comment 100%. IF you claim to be on the spiritual path, it has no room for sides. When someone (even a handsome, intelligent someone) orders attacks that kill innocent people, there is no room for discussion. It is UNACCEPTABLE and should be UNSUPPORTABLE. Although I've been a life-long Democrat, I made the mistake of voting for BO because I wanted to make history, as well as was hoping that his stance on increasing troop strength in Afghanistan was just another lie told by a politician trying to get the swing vote. Nope. For the first time in history, a politican told the truth.

You don't have to worry about constantly hiding my threads or about me "disrupting" your little mindsets because I am about done here. And I know that when people refuse to fall into that trap of bipartisanship, it's not only unpopular but it rallies the DU community to marginalize the poster. When we stop posting, the regulars seem to start turning on one another. Because deep down, we all know whether or not we are being led with the kind of values that we claim to champion.

How can any thinking, feeling person (let alone a sensitive, SPIRITUAL one) not have their stomach turn every time we hear of these atrocities carried out in our country's name?

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Response to down is up (Reply #40)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 03:19 PM

42. Please keep in mind...

that most of us (myself included) were not able to see the content of your post (I don't know if I should assume you're also the icke/Islam screen names Ruby the Liberal referred to?).

I wasn't LOL'ing at you or whatever you posted, as I wasn't aware of either. It IS unusual to have anyone's posts hidden in this little corner of DU, which is what I and the other member were LOL'ing about.

Where content is posted is very important here at DU3 as well.

I do believe you could use a hug (can't we all?), so I offer you one in earnest, and reiterate that I wasn't ridiculing whatever information or thoughts you were sharing here.





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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #42)


Response to Post removed (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 03:54 PM

48. See, I just learned something...

I have interacted here so little since the new platform (DU3) came into play that I didn't know we COULD see a hidden post.

Silly, I agree, but I never took the extra step to try to see what was hidden, and just assumed it was just that: hidden from view.

Anyway, I'm always sincere about my hugs. Peace be with you as well.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 04:18 PM

49. And I learned something, as well...

 

I assumed you chose not to read the hidden thread. I must always remember not to jump to such conclusions and realize that there's always another possible explanation. I like that book "The Four Agreements" because one of them is not to take anything personally.

By the way, I admire your endeavors with your other site. I honestly think that is the future. We don't have to rely on an outer entity if we band together and help one another to live

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Response to japa beads jamie (Reply #49)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 04:47 PM

51. Dude, I am watching you

eom

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Response to icymist (Reply #51)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 01:08 PM

61. And what is that supposed to mean?

 

Is that supposed to be intimidating? Look at yourself. In the mirror, preferably. I hope you can answer for your decisions, including whom you support to lead this country.

As a solitary witch, I would think you would be more interested in transcending these superficial barriers. Stop trying to control what others feel!

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Response to Sadge Sun-tastic (Reply #61)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 12:19 AM

64. Any other questions?

eom

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Response to icymist (Reply #64)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:48 AM

65. I have one! Pick me!!!

Would that be a Sun-Choke???



Yes, I know. Bad Laura. BAD Laura.





Laura

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Response to icymist (Reply #64)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:06 PM

66. Yes.

 

I would like to know why anyone not parroting what DU tells us to do is deemed a troll or somehow not treated with the same respect that you give to the others here. Not very open-minded. Reminds me of some old granny in the boondocks who is suspcious of the "furriners" from the big city.

I have been a life-long Democrat. The Democratic party has changed. I voted for Obama and have not been happy with many of his stances. Sorry, but it is what it is...

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 04:43 PM

50. This guy keeps reincarnating as another name only!

I would say that you would not only avoid interacting with them, but report them as a recurring spam. Or someone that disrupts. We all love your hugs OGR and we don't want some silly person that keeps taking on different personalities here to make that any different. Screw this guy! I don't know why he needs to keep coming back here to argue some point. In fact, I think this person is a coward. That's right! You, my dear interrupter, are a coward because you do not present yourself in an identifiable manner, regardless weather you get banned or not! You brought the discussion here and have chosen to be hidden, therefore a coward! I am not saying that your arguments are valid or not, just that the way you present them is not helping your cause. Watch your step!

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:33 PM

25. That's a hoot!

We don't usually get real trolls here in this little corner of DU.

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Response to Kookaburra (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:45 PM

28. Definitely weird!

I feel violated, don't you?

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Response to kimmerspixelated (Reply #28)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:42 AM

37. I just got back on here

I can't even figure out what that person wanted to attack here. And somehow my answer to OGR started the whole thing.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #37)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:03 PM

39. I don't know if this troll was a conservative or not,

but having visited those sites on occasion, I can tell you that a good majority of them are fundamentalist Christians (the highly intolerant variety.) What they see us talking about is, basically, devil worship to them. They'll attack anything we have to say.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #39)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 03:32 PM

45. Funny how quick you are to label someone...

 

Isn't that the narrow-mindedness you denounce? It makes me laugh to think of someone assuming I am a fundie!

Did you read my post? Did you consider whether or not it should have been hidden?

We are at a point where the sleepwalking thru life and blind obedience to "rules" (without examining them!) must end. Engage in Truth! Stop being DUalistic (Right versus Left, etc.)

If you are liberal and have lived in a conservative area your whole life, then MOVE! If it's so intolerable to deal with certain types, MOVE! Because as someone who has experienced the opposite, I can tell you there is no perfect place. Maybe having something to rebel against is your unconscious MO.

Namaste!

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Response to lightworker at work (Reply #45)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 08:03 PM

54. The troll-label is appropriate.

Because, when you act like an asshole (with a low-post count to boot) you're going to attract that label no matter what. Not to mention the fact of using such "cute" insults for our Democratic President

Yes, I read your post, and it should have been hidden. Personally, I wish the jury had the authority to delete it, too. It would certainly clean things up if all posts by the PPR'd would disappear along with their accounts.

And in case you don't understand, please read the homepage of this site for a clue (hint: it starts with a Big 'D'.) No matter how much you'd like to get away from the "dualism", you really can't here. We don't support "the other side" much less allow those from the other side of the aisle here. If we did, the name and focus of our site would be all-inclusive, and it ain't.

Additionally, you can only break the rules so many times before authorities bite you in the butte. As we can see time and again so far...

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Response to kentauros (Reply #54)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 01:08 PM

60. Just because I have a low post count

 

or someone calls me a troll, doesn't make ME the asshole and them right!

Your chief argument is that I am breaking the rules! So the eff what! I am not a good little sheep(le) who stays in line if I feel the rules are unjust. Sorry if that bugs you. I am a Sadge, therefore I seek Truth, which is what all who CLAIM to be on the spiritual path should be doing.

Eff the "authorities!" Ooooo...I'm a'skeered!

I was introduced to this site via a family member in 2004. I signed up and when I read the rule about advocating for Dems no matter what, I was utterly appalled. I wrote to the admins. about it and got NADA in response. So if they cannot even defend such a policy, I don't feel the need to adhere to it.

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Response to Sadge Sun-tastic (Reply #60)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 01:31 PM

62. A low post count can contribute to the troll-label.

It's not the primary reason, nor is someone simply calling someone a troll. What is a reason why the label fits is how one acts. And that is my primary argument, not whether you obey the rules. However, I guess I have to reiterate this yet again: if you act like an asshole, whether in this group or elsewhere on DU, then expect the consequences of that action, i.e., being labeled a troll. Doesn't matter if you break any rules or not. And from what I've seen of your various hidden posts, the label is still appropriate due to continued behavior in the asshole department.

As for not getting a response from the admins: I've written to them before and never received replies. Does that mean they didn't care? Maybe, or it might have meant that there was no reply needed. Normally, policy changes require more than one member complaining about them

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Response to lightworker at work (Reply #45)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 02:53 PM

56. Sorry, I'm married to a Republican

I'm not attacking anyone but Rush Limbaugh for his dirty tricks in demonizing words. And I wasn't even on here when your post was hidden, so I had nothing at all to do with it.

I have EXPERIENCE from living in a Red State all my life, I'm sorry if you are opposed to my sharing it, but if you are then that's your problem. How can "both sides" ever communicate if we don't look at the ways that the PTB have made that difficult? We need to run around being afraid to point out difficulties because in doing so someone else will look for key words to use to demonize us?

Sorry, I'm not playing that "you're not a good liberal IF' game. I'm a person with views, I don't need a label to survive, the key is that no one does.

And how did I label you???????? I said I couldn't figure out what this person was attacking, I called you a person, and you said I was quick to label?

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Response to kimmerspixelated (Reply #28)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:19 PM

41. Why in heavens would my post violate you?

 

Talk about strange...

I am pointing out that we have to be consistent in our beliefs. If we claim to be tolerant, then that applies to EVERYONE. It is so smug to walk around saying how hateful "repugs" are (using such a negative label) and yet doing just that.

I see all the vitriol in GD--even putting down Romney's wife--and I expect better of the people here. Then I see posts like "Romney's Eyes," etc. and people like to savage Dubya as a war criminal but what is our DEMOCRATIC president doing himself? Does he respect human life in other countries?

As I said to OGR, I am not planning to constantly bombard this board or any other on DU in the near future. I sometimes get caught up in trying to make people see the light (my Mars in the 9th, perhaps?) and that is fairly futile. The only way that people will usually understand something is if they have to experience it. And while I wish people would wake up right now, I do know that it's all good. We are eternal beings and whatever happens, ultimately it's all good!

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Response to Fruit of Islam (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:32 AM

35. Yes, why?

Did I say I was not tolerant of those words? My post wasn't intended as a "put down" of anyone. I was answering a question about words that have been misused and thus made difficult to use with loved ones on the right, and in my case I definitely mean LOVED ONES. Read the entire conversation leading to my list and you will have a better understanding of the context I am sure. I don't see how my post was intolerant in the least. We are discussing finding ways to create tolerance on both "sides" (as if such a thing should exist).

I actually LOVE the first four words you reference and get in trouble in GD for it at times. Non-dualism I am not familiar enough with as a term to say.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:44 PM

27. Public transportation???

I just read through the list and can see, if I were a dittohead, how the words would trigger something.

But public transportation?

What's that about?

LOLOL



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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:29 PM

31. I can think of at least two reasons for why they'd dislike public transportation.

One usually is racist in nature, so I won't detail it here. Another is that it goes against the free market, that is, it is efficient. The last thing they want is for there to be a glut of oil, despite their adamant desire to drill any part of the Earth. Better that everyone drive a car, and best if it's a Hummer or giant dick-up truck. No efficient small cars or hybrids, either. And absolutely no bicycles or pedestrians. Those are just "fun targets" in the meantime. Yes, there are people that actually "aim" for cyclists

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Response to kentauros (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:37 AM

36. racism and classism

Here in Lexington a few years ago our megar public transportation system needed some financial help and that was put up as a ballot initiative. You could cut the racism and classism with a knife surrounding the arguments against additional funding. It goes along with the Limbaugh style idea of if you don't have enough money (in this case for a car) that means you are lazy and undeserving. The bus service seemed to anticipate this and ran a lot of commercials showing disabled people who literally could not drive using public transportation as well as people who worked in area hospitals. Fortunately it worked and public transportation continued here, in its limited way. People who utilize it are still looked down on.

Public Transportation would fall under the Tea Bagger idea of THEM wanting our tax money because they are LAZY. Don't even start on energy conservation, that's unspeakable in bagger land.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #36)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 03:45 PM

43. Unreal....

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 06:15 PM

63. For language, you could also look at George Lakoff

His book "Don't Think of an Elephant" is about RW use of language, and how to counter it with an organic, liberal usage. I bought 10 copies in 2004 and handed them around where I work (a university). I think it's less than $15, it's a small book, but very helpful.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 10:07 PM

9. If you're talking about our fellow Liberals,

then there is one subject I just do not understand: "Charity is bad."

I've seen people try to understand this concept, too, asking why it's so bad to be charitable to those in need now versus trying to "change the system". The latter could very well take decades in some cases. Yet those in need just have to suffer while the system gets changed.

Like those that have argued for charity, I have a hard time understanding how anyone could reject charity that takes place now, in favor of something that will take much longer and far more effort (and money) in the long run. It seems to be yet another black&white mindset. There is no gray area or the possibility of doing both!

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Response to kentauros (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:55 AM

14. Oh, yes, there have been many conversations here at DU....

You will no doubt remember bobbolink and the heated threads any time poverty and homelessness were mentioned.

I actually want to address your post further in much more detail but don't have time right now. I agree with you that we can multitask: work to change system which creates poverty, as well as relieve suffering NOW.

The key is the wording -- charity versus justice -- and the intention of those offering assistance.

I'll be back.......



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Response to kentauros (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:43 PM

26. Like so many things, I think it's semantics, kentauros...

I ask for your patience ahead of time; I'm sure this is going to be awkward as I try to explain my perception of this topic. (I suddenly feel awkward and clumsy about everything...lol.)

Certainly the main point is very obvious, and with which you agree: Ideally, we would heal the systems which lead to and perpetuate poverty. THAT is the ideal and goal and we should always have social justice as our goal.

But, as you said, in the meantime, people are suffering.

(I know what I'm saying here you know already, but in case someone is reading who hasn't thought about this before, I'll elaborate as best I can.)

For many -- especially those who have been the recipients of assistance -- the term "charity" in and of itself has begun to trigger a knee-jerk cringing response. Much of it has to do with the intention of the person offering aid. Do they look down upon the person they're assisting as "less than" in some way, even subconsciously? Do they expect something of the person they are aiding?

If someone is hungry or their child is hungry and they need a place to sleep, if a faith-based organization requires they pray with them first, chances are they're going to do it, even if they're atheist. The faith-based initiatives are often the most widely available and effective, but some (certainly not all) require participation in their religion in some way before they'll give the help offered.

The point bobbolink was often trying to make is that in many cases, the assistance offered is done to assuage the ego/conscience of the person helping, much more than to help the recipient. As in the faith-based initiative example, help is help, especially in dire situations, yet the situation isn't one of equality and certainly isn't healing. There is an inequality, a power dynamic involved.

This is one of my favorite graphics which, to me, explains the subtle differences involved, and it has to do with intention.



Here is an excerpt of a really good essay about this topic. I encourage you to follow the link to read the whole thing. I think it's very powerful.

"Helping incurs debt. When you help someone, they owe you one. But serving, like healing, is mutual. There is no debt. I am as served as the person I am serving. When I help, I have a feeling of satisfaction. When I serve, I have a feeling of gratitude. These are very different things.

Serving is also different from fixing. When I fix a person, I perceive them as broken, and their brokenness requires me to act. When I fix, I do not see the wholeness in the other person or trust the integrity of the life in them. When I serve, I see and trust that wholeness. It is what I am responding to and collaborating with."

http://www.infj.com/ServingVsHelping.htm



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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:08 PM

29. Maybe I'm just too tired to read (and comprehend)

but I didn't get very far into your link due to reading a whole lot of semantics. That may very well be that person's point of view, but it's not mine. What I see, is that suffering needs to be diminished. How one goes about that (so long as it's a positive method) isn't really important. The goal is no suffering or poverty or inequality. Any method is good due to the outcome. If someone is second-guessing my intent, that's also their choice and out of my control. In fact, I will state that it's always the choice of the recipient as to how they are going to interpret any offering to diminish their suffering. I'm not going to judge a person, but if my offering is refused, I'll just give to someone else. If I am judged for trying to be nice, well, again, that's their choice, and I'll just move on.

Thankfully, I've only been judged for being generous on DU. In person, that doesn't happen. People are genuinely thankful. Now, before y'all get the idea that I'm massaging my ego with the fact that people thank me, that's not it. I'd rather give anonymously, but even there, systems are set up to give thanks for the offering. I post online mostly anonymously to share my knowledge so people can use it (or ignore it.) Is that helping or serving? Or, is it offering something intangible that can be turned into something tangible (such as cooking/baking knowledge) that eases suffering?

I still find the "easily offended" odd in that they'd rather refuse something that could assuage their suffering for a few moments because it doesn't do anything for their plight in the long run. Well, that's just one part of the whole. I can't discuss the topic with those that can only see one part.

Perhaps this would do well to quote here, and I have no idea where I heard it, only that it's somewhat known:

"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

I know it's related to the spiritual topics we discuss and hold dear around here, and could amend it with any verbiage on the order of "especially when those parts are positive in nature." The whole being, the eradication of suffering. Anything that diminishes that in the slightest is a good thing in my book

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Response to kentauros (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:21 PM

30. I haven't seen help refused very often...

(the only time is with someone here at DU, who refused offers of help repeatedly, from many people).

I honestly don't think many people in dire straits would refuse help out of some moral high ground or questioning of intention. I do think people are grateful, regardless.

That said, from a spiritual perspective, I do think there is something to be said about intention and the energy of it, and how it affects the overall healing of a situation. It's not so much about how the gesture is received; we can't control that, of course. Yet how it's offered, and why, is something that is good to be mindful of, imho.

Other than that, I also feel it's largely semantics.




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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:38 PM

32. I think we're both trying to get to the foundation of it,

however it reads. It's fun to discuss it as we evolve how we see it in a positive manner, versus the knee-jerk variety that seems to be the only response elsewhere on DU. I have to wonder if any of them other than the trolls read us...

As far as "loaded" words go that the anti-compassionate use, I think we can take ownership of those words once again. Just use them in different ways, and steer them back around to their origins as best we can. That's another slow process, yet worth the effort. It also helps to deflate any of them used as an insult by simply replying "Thank you! I appreciate you calling me a (liberal!) (socialist) (et cetera)"

'Kill them with kindness' after all

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Response to kentauros (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:12 AM

34. Well said, kentauros....

I agree wholeheartedly!



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Response to kentauros (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 03:32 PM

46. "I have to wonder if any of them other than the TROLLS read us"

 

That is "kindness?" You really need to read what you say and actually practice it instead of patting yourself on the back for your so-called uber humanitarian instincts.

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Response to lightworker at work (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 08:07 PM

55. "Repeat offenders" such as yourself,

don't really deserve much kindness. Because you keep pissing people off by breaking the rules, and then turning around and rubbing it in their faces. Everyone has a breaking point, and trolls (such as yourself) delight in such behavior. Being kind doesn't work, nor does getting mad. Alerting on all of your new puppets does work until you just get tired of trying

Eventually, they'll figure out how to block all of your IPs and that will be the end of that.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 11:03 AM

57. I bet I know why that view exists from an "emotional" standpoint

I have been thinking lately about how much guilt I feel every time I purchase some little something, with all the people suffering around me, then I donate to a charity and still feel like I could never be enough and how dare I change phone plans and get a better phone, or have a car, or healthcare, or whatever... Do I think I "deserve" anything and others don't" I can get into that thinking, like a kind of survivor's guilt in this recession and the way our country is now. I'm not much in the world, but do I deserve health care when so many in this country don't have it?

I doubt anyone who is angered by charity would admit that they might engage in a survivor's guilt of some sort, but I would bet many of them do, I can't be that much more strange than everyone else, well on this point anyway. I just think to myself PLEASE tax everyone with a job more and get some social programs, public health care, and job creation going, help me release this guilt! It is a selfish wish, in a way, but I do know where it comes from. A person can donate to something and still feel really guilty if they get something for themselves with so many still suffering and no way one person can do enough.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #57)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 01:09 PM

58. Just yesterday I listened to one of Alan Cohen's recent shows.

In it, he talks about guilt, though I listened to some other shows after and don't remember as much. However, here's the blurb for it, and if you're interested, I'll post it to a file-sharing site to share

June 28, 2012: The Choice for Innocence
Guilt and innocence are not facts of life, but choices we make based upon the vision we use. Alan illuminates the dynamics of healing using innocence as a guide. If you would like to feel better and freer about yourself and others, listen to this insightful program.


One thing you can ponder about health is if your health is less than good, then you're less able to give as much as when you're healthier. When you take care of yourself first, then it's easier to help others. And yes, when I give money, I'd like to give even more, but it's pointless to give until you end up needing the same assistance. I suppose some can live their lives that way, but it's a small handful of individuals.

The "system" does still need changing, and I'd start with the MIC and Pentagon budgets. The only way I'd be happy with their budget as it stands now is if at least half of that money was going for the building and retrofitting of hospital ships, Search & Rescue crews and equipment, and engineering crews and equipment. Turn the military into one sent into disasters to help, care, and heal people first and foremost, instead of kill first, clean-up later. Tax the wealthiest (top 1-5%) to the point that they have the incentive to invest in this country in order to keep their current income levels. That's partly how it worked in Eisenhower's day. No reason it can't work that way again. Then you can raise taxes on the rest of us. Otherwise, all that does is make people save for next year's taxes and not consume. Or give to charity.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #58)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 02:13 PM

59. I agree with you completely

I just see the guilt when I look at my thoughts. I think many people are less aware of their thoughts and feel the guilt and escape it through dismissing charity, or trying to see people in need as somehow unworthy (which I believe may otherwise good people on the right do).

I'd like the Pentagon budget to be reduced to the point to where we could drown it in a bathtub, personally. And we need to go back to Eisenhour era level taxes on the rich.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:17 AM

10. I think of it as kinda like not being able to hear a dog whistle.

Sometimes that frequency is just out of my range. Not hearing it is something that isn't exactly a flaw, but something like a lost opportunity. I'll make the attempt to explain where I'm at, but sometimes I have to just step off and wait for a change in either my own or their abilities or frequencies.

We talk here a lot about the changing frequencies we all are experiencing, but I have to admit that I've really been wondering if maybe--just maybe--the changes will leave us ALL with an improved ability to hear the different frequencies. Maybe we ALL will have improved abilities and that will be how the world lifts itself up. Maybe it isn't ALL about teachers and students, but more about growing the ability to hear all the voices out there.



Laura

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Response to davsand (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:51 AM

13. Wow, that is powerful...

a VERY powerful thought!

"Maybe it isn't ALL about teachers and students, but more about growing the ability to hear all the voices out there."







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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:13 PM

21. We are living in the age of manufactured consent that reaches people via emotions, not fact.

If you can make a person realize they are being manipulated, you may be able to reach them with actual truth, which you seem to have plenty of.

Emotions are ruling these "hard hearted" as you call them, if they were able to use reason you might make some headway, but if that were the case they would not be so easily manipulated.

The rise of corporate America is at fault, marketing and branding are being used. Chris Hedges nails it

http://www.realecontv.com/videos/social-costs/brace-yourself-the-american-empire-is-overand-the-descent-is-going-to-be-horriying.html

and Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" explains all of what we are going through. I personally feel, people must come to these realizations of their own accord.

Capitalism is the new doctrine, it has usurped democracy with stealthy tactics, but the coup d'etat has taken hold in this country, otherwise a blind eye to corporate/banking crimes would not be playing out before our eyes. "Looking forward, not backward" has only brought us more of the same and has brought us deeper in the murky waters of ALEC and health care reform that strengthens big insurance and pharma, big oil and nuclear power that can trash our planet while feigning ignorance, just like the banksters that have rigged us into what one day will be recognized as the 2nd depression.

What was the question, lol? Now that I'm totally depressed and realize what a flippin mess this all is, I think I'm going to take my leave now...

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Response to mother earth (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:27 PM

24. ....

I hear you, mother earth.



Unless someone is a sociopath (and I do fear their numbers are rising), I believe they have empathy, even if it's hidden wayyyyy deep inside. It's actually a painful path to be empathetic, so I don't blame them for shutting these feelings off.

Still, for us to survive, I sincerely believe we must replenish what is an empathy and compassion deficit, numbed by the media (which is Corporate America, imho).

I'm awkwardly attempting to offer ways to perhaps trigger empathy in those who try not to empathize. Yes, they have to choose to see or not see, feel or not feel, all on their own. We all do, of course.


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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 06:00 AM

33. Never underestimate the evil that exists. If there truly is a shift, it will come about because

there simply is no other way.

I've witnessed demoralizing behavior perpetrated by groups that I never would have believed capable of such hatefulness, and I've never been in a war zone. I will never again make the mistake of believing we are even close to choosing to change, much less that it would be voluntary on the collective to do so.
Any trigger will be monumental to achieve that kind of transformation, and it won't come gently.

I don't believe in doom and gloom, and I've no doubt change is coming.
Maybe empathy/compassion will be a survival trait? Perhaps the meek will truly inherit the earth afterall.

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Response to mother earth (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:48 AM

38. Manipulation

We have been so manipulated by the corporate media that we have changed overall as a society.

That is absolutely correct.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 08:03 AM

44. I find that I just laugh at them.

They don't know what to do and I don't say a thing. When they continue, I laugh more.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 05:44 AM

67. sowing seeds of love needs the soil of a receptive heart

many seeds will fall astray. thankfully the seeds of love replenish readily. you will face distraction, distrust, and disgust. but there will be those who question, and for that you have succeeded. your blog there is beautiful, it will find at least another soul the light, and for just that one it is good enough to be lauded.

and mercifully it is an act that doesn't expose you to true danger and malignancy. continue on and thank you.

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Response to NuttyFluffers (Reply #67)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 06:50 AM

68. ...



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