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Dworkin

(164 posts)
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 05:45 PM Jul 2016

Should a Christian be selfish?

Hi,

I used to debate at some length with a couple of Randian Christians. Their view seemed puzzling, as I remembered the Christian commandment, “Love your neighbour as yourself.” Mark 12:31

So, to me, shouldn’t the Christian be concerned for others just as much as for his/her self? That’s how I was reading it. However, the Randians stuck to their line, and I began to realise that the commandment does take account of self love, just as strongly as the love of others. As our debate proceeded, it became clear to me that the Randians believed that their self love included profiting in worldly goods in the here and now, and then, crucially, gaining immortality in eternal heaven of the next world. For a selfish person, what’s not to like?

But, what of others? Here, the Randians presented two arguments. Firstly, their view is that loving others does not need to include practical help, unless this help is in the form of some useful advice: i.e. ‘look after yourself’. In this perspective the Randians own selfishness can be of help to others by sharing such nuggets of wisdom. The second argument is about Christian belief. They argued that redemption is not a matter of good works in this world, but of believing the gospel. Again, interestingly, they saw a deathbed conversion as a fully effective passport to the new world, no matter what kind of life has gone before.

As a result of these debates, I took a fresh look at the nature of the Christian idea. Was my own view of Christianity being affected by my liberal political world view and what I think a good person is? This is still a puzzle to me.

D.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Should a Christian be selfish? (Original Post) Dworkin Jul 2016 OP
They're full of shit. rug Jul 2016 #1
No. ladym55 Jul 2016 #2
Excellent link Dworkin Jul 2016 #3
Yes Dworkin Jul 2016 #4
"Randian Christian" is a complete oxymoron. kestrel91316 Jul 2016 #5
Agape is different than self-interest LanternWaste Aug 2016 #6
"Look after yourself" Ilsa Sep 2016 #7
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
1. They're full of shit.
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 05:59 PM
Jul 2016
Acts 2


44 All who believed were together and had all things in common;

45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need.

ladym55

(2,577 posts)
2. No.
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 06:01 PM
Jul 2016

The folks you are debating with are what I term very selective Christians. They pick a verse that suits THEM and then twist it to suit THEM. If you look at the overarching ministry of Jesus, it was the opposite of selfishness. On more than one occasion, he calls others to put aside material things to follow him. He calls on his followers to care for the least among us. He spent his time with those on the margin, not those with great wealth and power.

In 2012, comedian John Fugelsang took on this very topic in short YouTube video that focused on Paul Ryan, who was a big Ayn Rand follower and big-time claimant to be a Christian. Fugelsang's main point? You can follow Jesus or you can follow Ayn Rand, but you can't follow both.

Here is the link to the video--Fugelsang's language can be interesting at times, so be forewarned.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
6. Agape is different than self-interest
Tue Aug 9, 2016, 04:31 PM
Aug 2016

Agape (Agapēseis) is different than self-interest, though both may fall within the modern usage of the truncated word 'love.' However, it's clear that of the four classical loves ("agape", "eros", "storge" and "philia&quot , agape was the fulcrum (i.e., in the original Greek of Mark, the word was Agapēseis.)

In effect, the Randians are choosing an contextually inaccurate definition suiting their own social narrative in much the same way that one could inaccurately infer there's too much sound rather than too much space if we use the phrase "too much volume." Lacking context (in our case, the original Greek), either space or sound is valid; yet given context, one (self-interest, or my example, sound) becomes invalidated.

Ilsa

(61,676 posts)
7. "Look after yourself"
Fri Sep 9, 2016, 03:31 PM
Sep 2016

"In this perspective the Randians own selfishness can be of help to others by sharing such nuggets of wisdom."

Nuggets of wisdom don't feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, or aid the sick and helpless and hopeless. It's an excuse to employ only the parsimony of words. It's as useless as telling someone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

I don't believe good works will get anyone into heaven. Only salvation through grace. But good works help us exercise our love for God's commandments, including loving our neighbors as ourselves.

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