I always thought I was a Russian Jew.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Last edited Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Growing up in the fifties, my parents always told my brothers and me that we were half Russian and half Hungarian. Our paternal grandparents immigrated from Russia, and our maternal grandparents immigrated from Hungary. Needless to say, we always felt a special connection to "Fiddler On The Roof," as that was probably the circumstances our grandparents experienced. As far as we know, no one from our European family survived the Holocaust.

With adulthood came the birth of services like Ancestry.com and others like it. Several members of my family did genealogy searches, tracing our grandparents and others in the family back as far as they could. One of the things we learned was that our Russian family came from the area around Odessa. It never occurred to me that my dad's side actually came from Ukraine, not Russia. I'm guessing the reason for that is that, at the time of their immigration, Ukraine was probably considered part of Russia or the U.S.S.R, and they considered themselves Russian. In my ignorance of geography, I had no idea that Odessa was in Ukraine, and not Russia as we know it today.

This has definitely affected me as I watch events unfold on the other side of the world. All this time I had no idea that my family was from Ukraine, and not Russia or the U.S.S.R. It's a very strange feeling to learn that there is a connection there that I never knew I had.

[blm]

1. Journalist (and old time DUer) Larisa Alexandrova is from Odessa.

[MaryMagdaline]

2. Same with my MIL. She always told her children she was Russian

but she came from Odessa. She was Russian-speaking. We didn’t figure out that she was Ukrainian until after she died. She was a baby when she had to leave. Her father was killed in a pogrom.

[elleng]

3. I don't recall specific geography being discussed;

wish I did. Gonna check into 'ancestors,' think we're from Poland and maybe Roumania.

Both Maternal and Paternal Grandparents made it to NYC, somehow.

But this does it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=RWiRetxeviw&feature=emb_logo

[Grumpy Old Guy]

10. That clip says it all, doesn't it?

I must have seen that movie a dozen times, thanks for posting the clip. Everyone there is dressed like my great grandmother, who I knew well. She knew English, but spoke Yiddish until the day she died. She was about 4'11", and she kept her life savings in the bottom of her shopping bag or under her mattress.

[elleng]

13. Oh my GOODNESS, how lucky, you knew your great grandmother!

I 'only' knew my maternal grandparents, as Dad's father died the year I was born (I think,) and Dad's mother died during 1918 pandemic. I understand Grandfather spoke Yiddish @ home.

I do remember my maternal grandparents, they spoke English and Yiddish; sadly I didn't spend enough time with them in my mature years to learn a lot. Grandma may have been 5' tall, maybe; just my impression.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

14. I was very fortunate.

I knew both of my maternal grandparents, and several of their siblings, all of whom were from Hungary. They rarely spoke Yiddish, but often spoke Hungarian. I was very close to my maternal grandfather in his last years. He lived with us for quite a while.

I also knew my paternal grandmother, great aunt, and great grandmother, all of whom apparently came from Odessa. I still have one of my dad's sisters, but she is in the hospital right now. Otherwise I would be calling her and asking about all this.

Funny story: My great grandmother was tiny and had a thick, grizzly, stubby beard. I don't know why, but she did. I was the only great grandchild who would kiss her because of it. When she died, at the age of 86, she wanted to leave all her money to me! Of course, I was only about ten or eleven, so that wasn't going to happen. They found four thousand dollars tucked in the bottom of her shopping bag, which was a lot of money in 1960 or 61.

[JudyM]

16. What a beautiful story.

My dad’s oldest sibling went to first grade in NYC not knowing any English, only Yiddish. When I knew her she never had a trace of an accent. She enjoyed many years helping to teach first graders English, including many Hmong refugees. Lived well into her 90s. A wonderful soul. ❤️

[Grumpy Old Guy]

19. That is also a beautiful story.

❤❤❤❤❤

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I'm sure it has affected you, my dear Grumpy Old Guy...

I feel enormous empathy and sympathy for you, finding out these facts now.

Connections help explain who we are, and where we came from.

[RockCreek]

5. My great grandfather

Came to the US from Odessa around 1890. I heard "Jewish from Russia-Poland" my whole life. Then I delved into ancestry.com and discovered that he had been an optician in Odessa.

[unblock]

6. I'm half Ukrainian but never felt any connection

My grandfather grew up near Kyiv, but left for America to fight in ww1 because he didn't want to fight for the Russians even though he considered himself Russian ethnically.

My grandmother's parents were from around Kyiv also, but she was born in America, so I never got any insight about Ukraine from her.

Maybe because I'm Jewish, and Jewish history is more nomadic than others', I don't feel much connection to places my ancestry lived temporarily.

I mean, my mother's side is Austrian, and they treated that whole side of the family quite rudely, so why should I care for them.

[JudyM]

17. The pogroms didn't help build any connection, for sure.

I’m also half Ukrainian. But I feel an affinity after reading about the Jews who remained there, and its history, just since this invasion hit the news… https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-zelensky-gave-the-world-a-jewish-hero/ar-AAUnKc8
(Just found this looking for a different article, but check it out) https://religionnews.com/2022/03/02/zelensky-ukraine/

[unblock]

18. Thanks!

[mucifer]

7. I think of myself as Ashkenazi because when my grandparents left Europe around WWI they were

considered Jews and not Ukrainian or Russian.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

11. That's true.

We were all Ashkenazi. The borders changed a lot through the centuries, but the Jews were the Jews, no matter where they lived.

[Karadeniz]

8. Russia had an area called the Pale of Settlement where modern Ukraine exists. Lots of Jews

there, conveniently accessible for pogroms or whatever punishment the Russian govt gave to the peasants to distract from its own poor leadership. Antevka would have been located in the Pale, had it actually existed. BUT...if you want to witness the world warped, Google in Antevka (sp?) and you'll find it now exists, along with Giuliani, fake donation sites and the Terrible Two, Fertash and whatshisname... unbelievable !!!!!!

[cilla4progress]

9. I, too, learned yesterday from my older sister that

One of our grandparents was born in Ukraine

I was always told I am a Russian Jew, too

Though raised as a secular humanist...

[Grumpy Old Guy]

12. It's strange that several of us had similar experiences.

I'm wondering if our parents, grandparents or great grandparents just wanted to put the past behind them and forget about the old country.

[cilla4progress]

15. Well, so much so in my family,

we celebrated no Jewish holidays nor traditions - only secular Christmas.

My sister and I were raised in the Ethical Culture Society "religion," based in humanism. Many adherents were of Jewish background.

https://ethical.nyc/

In later years, my parents started attending a Unitarian Universalist fellowship - very progressive, no dogma per se..I then did, too.

My daughter did 23andme and found she was half Jewish (my side) - not Russian. Of course!

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Many Jews were brought up thinking this because they were.

Depending on which group of immigrants your parents, grandparents or great-grandparents arrived with, most were considered "Russian" because that was the country in most of what the Pale of the Settlement was considered. My dad's grandparents were from Podolsk, Ukraine and Minsk, Belarus; actually, only one was from Podolsk, the others were from shtetls outside those cities. When they came to this country, they only spoke Yiddish and Hebrew, though the latter was not really spoken per se. They didn't speak Ukranian, Belarussian, or Russian, though one great-grandmother did, and it is likely the other did too. Women generally spoke the native tongue for the area and Yiddish, the men generally only spoke Yiddish.

There are a number of Jews who are rediscovering their roots in these "new" countries. However, their forebearers usually only considered themselves Jewish, which is why it is doubly sad the number of Jews who don't even claim that part of their heritage; well, unless they are called upon to criticize Israel or some other Jew.

I can't say I feel an overly personal connection to Ukraine or Belarus because we weren't raised knowing those countries, and even with the new information, when it came to Jews, they were generally not thought of as anything other than Jews. There may be some cultural overlap, but a "Ukranian" Jew would have more in common with a German Jew, who wasn't bougie, than a Ukrainian Jew would have with a Ukranian. The current situation, in both Ukraine and Belarus, have been on my radar for years now because of the new revelations, but it is more out of historical interest, not as much as personal connection.

Jews of the Pale are rather unique in many ways and differ in their experiences than the Jews of Western Europe and Russia proper. Of course, now, we, like many minorities, are all treated as singular, hive-minded, and monolith.