(Jewish Group) At least two Charedim among dead as New Jersey gunmen target kosher store

[Behind the Aegis]

Six people including at least two Strictly Orthodox civilians were killed on Tuesday after a gun rampage across a New Jersey town ended with two gunmen barricading themselves inside a kosher supermarket.

Two of the victims inside the building were named as members of the Chasidic community: Leah Mindel Ferencz, of Jersey City, who owned the kosher store with her husband, and Moshe Hirsch Deutsch, 24, from Brooklyn.

The violence broke out when police were pursuing the gunmen in connection to a separate murder investigation.

One of them opened fire at an officer, killing him, before they both fled in a stolen rental truck and driving a mile to Jersey City’s Greenville neighbourhood, where dozens of Chasidic families have relocated in recent years.

Three civilians were killed in the hours-long gunfight with police that followed. Hatzalah paramedics were among those responding to the stand-off.

more...

Shootout in Jersey City leaves 6 dead, including one police officer and https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142406296

So, this is another "wait and see" situation. Could be circumstance or something else. It is interesting to see some are already attacking Jews over this in the Twitter-verse. "Jews are buying up the area of MLK Blvd". But, as is so common...dead Jews...who cares!

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Local news

It's been ALL about the police officers. Nothing about the location - except from my Mayor- and we are 40 miles away.

[MosheFeingold]

3. Don't expect much news

The simple fact that most violent antisemitism comes from our fellow minorities is difficult to process for many.

This entire story will be forgotten in two days.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. Not if we don't allow it

The black Hebrews - the one guy who is always standing behind Trump at rallies? He's one.

I have a secret group in Hunterdon County NJ - it's a *minority report*. Black, LatinX, Asian, etc etc.

We are going to pressure our Assembly members on this, the same way we do on the white supremacists in our county.

We gotta stand up for our Jewish community.

BTA can explain why I'm a member of this group. The way I look doesn't explain the people I descend from.

There will be an anti racism coalition meeting tomorrow and I will be going with purpise. It has gone from swastikas on people's homes - to shooting in NJ.

I wrote here a few months ago - a lot of *little* adds up to genocide.

[MosheFeingold]

6. There is zero chance

A BHI is a Trump supporter. They are violently anti-white (as well as anti-Jewish) and firmly alighted with Farrakhan.

I’m no Trump supporter, but claims like “BHIs are Republican” destroy our credibility and should not be made. It’s too easily disproven.

Just for example, the situation with the Covington smug prick kid was instigated by BHIs chanting racist nonsense.

To the extent they have a political party, they’re our problem.

[11cents]

7. Farrakhan is a Trump supporter. He's praised him many times.

You do understand, don't you, that African-Americans are capable of being right-wing? To the extent that Farrakhan can be categorized on this spectrum, he's entirely on the right. Indeed fully in concert with the alt-right, with which he happily collaborates.

And what is it about the ranting, violent BHIs that makes them "our (Democrats') problem?" Be very specific. What is that they do or say that makes them Democrats? Or does just the fact that they're black make them Democrats?

[MosheFeingold]

8. Sure

Plenty of black people can be Republicans. Absolutely true. The recent economy has been good to the lowest-paid people -- and plenty of people will support whomever helps their pocketbook. It's an understandable, if unfortunate, truth.

And, no, I am not singling out blacks. There are plenty of Republican Jews, for that matter. I am Orthodox and am in the distinct minority as a Democrat in my shul --- and this is a growing issue for less observant Jews, too (albeit not as much, as there is less alignment on personal values).

But, to answer your comment. No, Farrakhan is not a Republican. I personally think he is a con artist.

That said, he usually lines of with Democrats.

You are correct that Farrakhan has praised some things Trump has done -- like some of the criminal justice reform Trump signed. (And they were, indeed, good things, although not Trump's idea -- Trump just jumped on the bandwagon created and pushed by a bipartisan group of moderates.)

Maxine Waters, Obama, Barbara Lee, Keith Ellison routinely attend Farrakhan's meetings. He has been praised by Sarsour and Tamika Mallory. The Congressional Black caucus has met with him.

That's not a Republican.

And nor are the BHI. They're a radical hate group of black supremacists. To the extent they align with anyone (and that is also a fair point -- they don't belong to any reasonable group), it's the fringe of our party.

[11cents]

12. I didn't ask whether Farrakhan was a Republican or a Democrat.

I doubt that he would describe himself as either. I told you that he supports and has praised Trump, for his antisemitism among other things.

What I am saying is that there is a right-wing -- not "Republican," right-wing and far right-wing at that -- tradition within the African-American community, just as there is in the white community. And Elijah Muhammad, Farrakhan, the BHI, etc., line up squarely within it. Conspiracism and antisemitism are a virtually inevitable part of this general tendency, whether the adherents are white, black, or other. Far-right conspiracism is the proper frame of reference, not Democratic or Republican. Not for nothing does Farrakhan happily collaborate with the likes of Alex Jones. The notion that groups like this, whatever their racial composition, is "our problem" is ludicrous.

You say:

>And nor are the BHI. They're a radical hate group of black supremacists. To the extent they align with
> anyone (and that is also a fair point -- they don't belong to any reasonable group), it's the fringe of our party.

So the BHI -- comprising as it does a tiny fragment of an almost century-old movement which as a whole is not violent -- is aligned only with the fringe of "our party." That's still an amazing statement, which requires a defense. Which part of BHI's racist, violent, insane ideology lines up with the left fringe of the Democratic Party? I'm talking about a discernible part of the Democratic coalition, not this or that loudmouth.

You say above that Maxine Waters, Obama, Barbara Lee, Keith Ellison "routinely attend Farrakhan's meetings." Routinely, in the present tense -- Barack Obama, etc., routinely attend Farrakhan's meetings. When's the last time Obama, for example, did that? How about Barbara Lee? How "routine" was it ever? Further, when you say they "attend his meetings" it suggests that they attend his rallies, cheer along, speak to his crowds. Is that what "routinely" happens, or is it the case for e.g., Obama that they may have met with him one-on-one or in a group? Because that would be a rather different thing.

I do think that some of these people, most especially Barbara Lee (my rep) have been too comfortable with these cult-like sects in the past. Lee defended a local Nation-of-Islam-like group that turned out to have been involved in horrific crimes. But that was years ago. She doesn't "routinely attend" Farrakhan's meetings, nor does Obama -- nor do any of those people AFAIK.

(Sarsour and Mallory are red herrings -- they're not Democratic officials, are rather hostile to the party, and have also been quite properly ousted from the Women's March. They're basically just a pair of twitter trolls now.)

[JustAnotherGen]

10. This guy is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_the_Black_Man


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/23/the-strange-story-of-that-blacks-for-trump-guy-standing-behind-potus-at-his-phoenix-rally/

The radical fringe activist from Miami once belonged to a violent black supremacist religious cult, and he runs a handful of amateur, unintelligible conspiracy websites. He has called Barack Obama “The Beast” and Hillary Clinton a Ku Klux Klan member. Oprah Winfrey, he says, is the devil.

Most curiously, in the 1990s, he was charged, then acquitted, with conspiracy to commit two murders.

But Michael the Black Man loves President Trump.

It’s unclear whether the White House or Trump’s campaign officials are aware of Michael the Black Man’s turbulent history or extreme political views

[Behind the Aegis]

9. "a lot of *little* adds up to genocide"

You are so correct. Thankfully, there are some, including people like us, who are astute enough to actually see the writing (swastikas) on the wall, and sound the alarm. Frankly, I think too many ignore anti-Semitism, for one reason or another, especially when the anti-Semitism is emanating from their own ranks.

I am glad you speak out here, because so few do. They will rage over nonsense, and ignore events like this. In another thread in GD about this tragedy, one DU'er made a very astute remark in regards to this all but being ignored; it was. However, there were no less than ten threads about the alleged "Jew is now a nationality" bullshit. It is demoralizing.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. Thank you

It's on the Agenda for tomorrow night. NJ Attorney General Grewal is on it too.

https://www.insider.com/jersey-city-shooting-domestic-terror-investigation-anti-semitism-police-2019-12

And yes - I've called his office. I agree with Mayor Fulop and the Mayor of My own Town - it was a hate crime. No slant to it.

[MosheFeingold]

2. Black Hebrew Israelites

The reason my kids moved me to rural NM:

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1809982/suspects-identified-allegedly-members-of-black-hebrew-israelite-movement.html

Reluctantly, they are correct. Not sure what to do with all this pure white snow out here. Need my city grey snow.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. They are pure evil