Is this an "experiment" in the official meaning of the word?

[Baobab]

"But we have to pass the [health care] bill so that you can find out what’s in it....”


I am not by any means a conservative, I am an advocate of single payer which has a proven track record.

I am wondering if the words spoken constitute admission of a medical experiment on the live country without informed consent.

Scientists could you help me on this? i think the portion "see whats in it" basically describes the functional core of the process of scientific experimentation.

[Agnosticsherbet]

1. Have a link. I don't know what you are talking about. nt

[Tobin S.]

3. I like your sig line. Do you mind if I use it? nt

[Agnosticsherbet]

4. Go for it, I had it from the title of an article.

[Tobin S.]

5. 10-4. Thank you.

[Baobab]

8. Nancy Pelosi said that referring to Obamacare but more generally I was talking about so called

"managed competition" which is basically conventional health insurance, prolonging the existence of the health insurance with job system, no job, costs too much job, get group discount, still costs too much system, despite it having been shown not to work perhaps even dozens of times in states, proposing that this was a medical experiment on living subjects in violaton of the Helsinki Declaration and Nuremberg Code.

[saturnsring]

2. "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it....” away from the fog of contro

away from the fog of controversy THAT IS THE FULL QUOTE WHY DONT PEOPLE USE THE WHOLE DAMN THING

[Agnosticsherbet]

6. Ok, this is about Nancy Pelosi and the ACA.

I support it and oppose idiot Republicans.

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. No. It's not an experiment in any 'official', or even reasonable, meaning.

You're taking a politician saying that people will see the benefits of a bill when it comes into effect, rather than believing the lurid descriptions and predictions the Republicans used, and thinking that means she's "experimenting" "without informed consent". What you're doing is using scientific terms to give a misleading impression of a speech. The full speech is at this link:

“You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention — it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting.

“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy. Furthermore, we believe that health care reform, again I said at the beginning of my remarks, that we sent the three pillars that the President’s economic stabilization and job creation initiatives were education and innovation — innovation begins in the classroom — clean energy and climate, addressing the climate issues in an innovative way to keep us number one and competitive in the world with the new technology, and the third, first among equals I may say, is health care, health insurance reform. Health insurance reform is about jobs. This legislation alone will create 4 million jobs, about 400,000 jobs very soon.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/the-context-behind-nancy-pelosis-famous-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-quote/

[Baobab]

9. How exactly would it create those jobs?

n/t

Also, "innovation" as compared to proven solutions? In medicine.. Without informed consent on the below..

See what I am saying? When somebody is sick, you don't interrupt them at the front desk and say "have I got the innovation for you, my friend" "Fully conformant with our new secretive ideology"

Or do you?

But especially how does it create jobs? Its my impression Americans use less care, not more, because of the way our system is set up.

Also, this.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. No. I don't see what you're saying.

But it looks like it would be better said in a political forum, since it's got nothing to do with science ("threads about topics that are not science are not welcome here&quot . You have some political point to make about Obamacare. Be straightforward about it (rather than using out of context quotes), and do it in the appropriate forum.

[Baobab]

11. States flatline paper

Previous attempts to do the same thing in states ran into problems at around the three to five year mark.