HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Science » Science (Group) » Germany Is Succeeding Qui...

Mon Sep 23, 2019, 10:14 PM

Germany Is Succeeding Quite Well With Phasing Out Nuclear Energy With So Called "Renewable Energy."

The following graphic and table come from the 2019 International Energy Agency's Electricity Information Overview report.

2019 IEA Electricity Information Overview



Presumably people who hate the science of Fermi, Seaborg, Wigner et al, expressed as nuclear engineering are dancing on the graves of dead people, and let's be clear, dead people are very much involved.

Notice that the German so called "renewable energy" program has done essentially zero to address climate change.

We hit 415 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere this May, and the rate of increases is now the highest ever recorded, about 2.3-2.4 ppm per year.

It is worthwhile to look at the table from the report describing exactly how this so called "renewable energy" breaks down:



It appears that 2/3 of the German so called "renewable energy" 30.3 MTOE (Million Tons Oil Equivalent) comes from the combustion of waste and biomass. This compares to about 14.33 MTOE from that magical wind and solar energy that was supposed to save the world, but didn't do so, isn't doing so and won't do so.

Gas has grown faster than wind and solar combined, somewhat at the expense of coal, but a gas plant puts out between 500-550 grams of carbon dioxide per kWh, a nuclear plant, 25 grams or less per kWh.

The Germans are spectacularly uninterested in practice in phasing out dangerous fossil fuels. Oh, I'm sure they carry on with "by 2050" or "by 2040" or "by 2075" bullshit by which they dump their irresponsibility on future generations by insisting that they will do what modern Germans have been incompetent to do, intellectually, morally or spiritually, phasing out dangerous fossil fuels now. The line for dangerous fossil fuel consumption is almost flat, a slight marginal decrease, although this doesn't reflect what Germany does when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining. Electricity in Poland is generated almost exclusively be coal.

Germany has the second highest electricity prices in the OECD, this being, ironically, a consequence of the fact that their peak electricity is in no way connected with demand, and they have to dump their electrical product at negative prices. It can be shown that negative pricing for random moments actually drives electricity prices up, because of the fixed costs of the required redundant dangerous fossil fuel facilities that power Germany when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing. (This fact may be seen in the "Electricity 'Imports'" row in the chart, where the "imports" are negative.

OECD electricity prices, with Germany coming in behind that offshore oil and gas drilling hellhole, Denmark:



I'm sure poor people in those countries really, really, really, really appreciate how "green" the bourgeoisie in Germany and Denmark are.

Slightly less than half of the 7 million deaths that occur each year from air pollution come from the combustion of biomass and waste, so yes, there are people, anti-nukes, quite literally dancing on graves, because despite all the fear, loathing and ignorance directed at nuclear energy in Germany, in it's 40 years of operations, very few, if any Germans died from exposure to radiation from nuclear power plants. It is the purview of anti-nukes to elevate their imaginations over reality.

I noticed that the 16 year old who lectured the UN today paraphrased something I've been saying here for some time: "History will not forgive us, nor should it."

I'm not sure she knows much about engineering or about what might might be practically done to address climate change were it not for fear and ignorance on the left and plain denial on the right - almost certainly she doesn't - but at least she is stating clearly that her generation will control how we are remembered.

It won't be pretty. History will record what we have done.

Have a nice day tomorrow.

6 replies, 610 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 6 replies Author Time Post
Reply Germany Is Succeeding Quite Well With Phasing Out Nuclear Energy With So Called "Renewable Energy." (Original post)
NNadir Sep 23 OP
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 23 #1
ret5hd Sep 29 #2
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 29 #3
NNadir Sep 29 #4
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 29 #5
NNadir Sep 29 #6

Response to NNadir (Original post)

Mon Sep 23, 2019, 11:22 PM

1. Hmmm.

Looks like coal is barely losing ground.

On a personal note, I had solar panels installed in June, but didn't go live until July. My monthly electric bill is $8.20, which is apparently what PNM (I'm in New Mexico) charges to be connected to your home. Meanwhile, I'm selling my excess back to PNM, although I will need to contact them to get the check I'm owed.

I was told I should do that about every three months, so in October I will find out what I need to do to get money from them.

I am sure that over the winter, even though I have clear skies almost all the time, the shorter days will mean I'll at best break even with them. Meanwhile, I'm happy and smug that I finally went solar.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 29, 2019, 02:13 PM

2. Satan!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ret5hd (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 29, 2019, 03:31 PM

3. What!!??

Satan because I have solar?

Oh, I'll get you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 29, 2019, 04:48 PM

4. Don't worry. Be happy. It's perfect for these times...

...rich people subsidized by poor people.

Can't get better than that, can we?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NNadir (Reply #4)

Sun Sep 29, 2019, 08:20 PM

5. Somehow I don't see my having solar

means that poor people are subsiding supposedly rich me.

I live in New Mexico, and I looked into getting solar for my small place about 8 years ago, but at the time it didn't make financial sense. Now it does, so I got it. My electric bill has dropped from about $50/month to $8.20, which is apparently what the local electric company, PNM charges to keep you hooked up. I am selling electricity back to them, and I need to set up getting a check from them every so often.

Unless I am completely misunderstanding what you are intending. In which case, apologies for my obtuseness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #5)

Sun Sep 29, 2019, 11:00 PM

6. Your feed in tariff does not go down when electricity prices go negative...

...which they do whenever wind and solar penetration reaches a significant portion of energy. You are subsidized at the fixed rate of power.

You are on the WECC grid, which does not publish, at least to my knowledge, hourly load data, but the nearby CAISO (California's grid) does.

The maximum power demand on the CAISO grid almost uniformly occurs in the late afternoon, between 5 and 7 pm. This is not when solar is peaking and driving busbar costs down. This is also true of other grids that publish their data in real time.

In fact, it is likely that the WECC grid is buying electricity from you at prices higher than it can sell electricity at the particular hour when solar power is peaking, generally between noon and 2 pm. Thus you are subsidized in selling something at a wholesale price that is higher than the retail price. If the wind is blowing, the situation is even worse, far worse, since the excess power begins to strain the grid requiring trips. (I'm not sure how much wind power New Mexico has, or if solar penetration is as high in New Mexico as it is in California.)

Of course, as is widely known, the sun goes down every evening. If the wind is blowing, that's one thing, but if it's not, someone will need to fire up a gas or coal or oil plant. This incurs an thermodynamic and thus economic and environmental penalty. Moreover, the plant providing back up will have high fixed costs that are not covered by use of the capacity which is required to sit idle during the hours of negative or extraordinarily low costs. Nevertheless, the construction costs, the labor costs, and other fixed costs need to be covered, since two systems are doing what one can do.

In fact, the negative costs drive up the cost of power overall.

The payments to solar generators - and let's be clear, poor people are generally not home owners with solar installations - are thus subsidized by the poor people who have to pay the overall costs of power, not the actual cost of delivered solar and/or wind energy.

The highest household cost of electricity in the OECD is in Denmark and Germany. Electricity is less available to poor people in Germany and Denmark than say, in France. Household electricity prices in France are 53% of those in Germany.



Source: IEA Electricity Information, 2018 Edition, table 2c, page IV.8

This explains why these costs are so high, because the feed in tariffs do not adjust for the wholesale cost of electricity at the moment of generation. This means to have dangerous fossil fuel plants to cover the moments when so called "renewable energy" is not available, they need to charge more per unit of power to remain profitable or to survive.

The alternative is, of course, to simply not have electricity when the sun is down and the air is still, or, almost as bad, mine the shit out the world to make batteries, which, like solar cells, will all be intractable electronic waste in twenty years.

Systems demonstrating high reliability and continuous power capability are economically superior and give fair costs to everyone, and not just those who are required to be subsidized by law. If they are not dangerous fossil fuel plants - although generally they are - they can be cleaner than so called "renewable energy."

Like I said, though, don't worry, be happy. It's not your problem. It is the problem of people who don't have and can't afford solar cells or even the roofs to put them on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread