Looking for advice and/or comments about my 6-year old son and Cub Scouts

[sadbear]

Hi. I've never posted in this group before. My atheism was never anything that big in my life. I'm pretty sure I was born a skeptic. There was no loss of faith because I never had faith and I've just tended to steer my life away from situations that might cause a conflict.

However, my six-year old son, a first grader, was given a Cub Scout flyer at school and some dumbass told him how great and fun it would be. He desperately wants to join and talks about it every day. I also have a 12-year old daughter, but nothing like this has ever come up before (because Girl Scouts aren't like Boy Scouts.) I'm hoping that he eventually just forgets about it, but I don't know that's going to happen when his little buddies start wearing their uniforms to school, which they do on at least a monthly basis. Since he was raised in an atheist home, he doesn't even know what god is (and don't get me started on the Boy Scouts' exclusion of LBGTQ's.) And he's not quite ready to understand or care what the fuss is all about. What do the parents here think?

I really appreciate it.

[seabeyond]

1. i would never deprive son the chance, at that age, not to experience BS.

it is all in the group and leader. we had one, that was christian oriented out of the private christian school. that was bothersome in many ways. i never left them alone and i eventually pulled kids. when i got them into the public school system, youngest went into bs and there was NO religion or anti anything in it. fathers and single mothers welcomed in an healthy environment for the boys. very positive.

also, living in fundieville and texas and having kids in private (the ONLY private are christian) i had the opportunity over 5, 6 yrs to educate kids in the acceptance and love of people that religion was meant for, yet.... how wrong it goes when people use it as a weapon for hate and hurt.

though we are not religious and never have been, it was a great opportunity for boys so young to listen, take to their heart, and decide the right and wrong of what was being said, easily.

though it got tough in that environment, i hate living here, i was very concerned my kids would learn, be influenced with beliefs i oppose, with peer pressure..... it has been a blessing allowing my boys huge knowledge, to see where the problems really are, the ignorance of people and has create such a strong foundation for them to walk, as they got older.

i feel the parent just has to be well connected to child, have lots of discussions of what is being learned and how they are told, be open and non bias and non hateful in pointing out the hypocrisies, and give a firm example of what it is to be a better person, in kindness and love.... and it is a huge opportunity for our kids. in development.

i do not run away from teaching the boys religion. ALL religions. all political opinions. i want them to hear it. i want the opportunity to bring balance, knowledge, acceptance.

i say, go for it.

[sadbear]

2. My fear is that my son will be excluded because of me.

Maybe these guys can be reasonable. But they didn't impress that upon me last night at the sign-up meeting. I actually really want my son to be involved. I'm not worried that he'll be indoctrinated. I'm worried that they'll kick him out after they find I didn't fill out the application truthfully. He would never understand. It almost breaks my heart just thinking about it.

[seabeyond]

3. as i said

we have only religious private in this area. when i found one, reasonably priced and teaching the academic standards i expected, i had to do an interview and fill out app. it asked what church i went to.

i crossed a line thru the answer. that night i got a call from the top guy. insisting i put down a church. rule: had to go to a church once a week as a family unit. i told him we do not go to church. and i had many reasons for not going to church.

he really wanted my son. he suggested i put a name in, and gave me three with the understanding in the future i would think about going to it.

i told him no. that i would not lie on the app. and i especially would not lie, when it came to something like this.

he was flabbergasted. wanted son. there are rules. i held fast.

for 6 yrs i filled out the school year papers and never put a name down.

i never walked away from what i felt and believe. my kids never stopped speaking up, disagreeing respectfully, always. they all knew us. we were welcome. they searched us out, because we disagreed, but.... we exemplified what they preached in kindness and love. it was an excellent exercise for my boys to learn how to always respectfully speak out even in disagreement.

i was upfront and honest at all times.

it worked for us.

and in turn, we were respected also.

i was always pleasantly surprised how it was a plus with these people, expecting the worst, but getting the best.

i feel we taught them as much as they taught us.

i think if you talk to the leaders, giving your thought and opinions, respectfully, and the desire of your son to participate, wanting the best for all.... it will work out for you, too.

and a wonderful example you set for your son.

[sadbear]

5. I do hope that would be the case...

but I'm in Texas, too (Bryan--very red) and the pack leader is a minor teabagger. I don't think being honest with this guy would accomplish anything positive for my son.

I've been thinking about it all morning and have decided just to lie on the application and try to avoid any and all incriminating situations.

My son just wants to play with his friends. I'm not going to let something like this stop him.

[seabeyond]

6. your choice.

i get why you are making the decision you are.

i think it is a lost opportunity, but.... i get why a parent would make the choice you do.

i valued the fact that i was so often surprised at the positive response, and that children were a priority over beliefs. it was welcoming to see that these people were able to be their better self.

but, i get it. yes, texas and very red. and my boys had to address issues way younger than most all kids. it was hard for them.

[WhollyHeretic]

4. Thankfully my son was never very interested but I wouldn't let him join the Cub Scouts

I was not comfortable with my son joining a bigoted group. I know there are plenty of local groups that are not bigoted themselves but I still felt overall it was not the right thing. How about the 4-h club? I know they don't discriminate.

I've got a 7 month old girl right now so thankfully I don't have to worry about it this time since Girl Scouts is an accepting organization.

[enlightenment]

7. You might look into alternatives

Camp Fire USA - 4-H Club - Scouting for All - Boy & Girls Clubs of America . . .

Or, take a look at the monthly schedule for the cub troop you're thinking of letting him join - if the activities are secular and they meet in a secular location, that troop is probably not a problem.

I raised my son without faith/religion/spirituality. In his early teens he came home and said "my friend wants me to go to church with him". I said - go. He came home and said - boring and kinda weird. This happened probably a half-dozen times over the course of three or four years. He eventually stopped accepting the offers - his curiosity was sated, I suppose.

He's grown now. He has no "faith" but one of the kindest and most loving personalities of anyone I have ever known.

You can't protect your kids from religion. You can only teach them reason and them let them explore - when they are old enough to think critically about what they are hearing and seeing. I agree that six is a little young for that kind of exposure, though, so I understand your concerns.

[sadbear]

8. I'm not concerned about indoctrination

I really don't care that they're a Christian organization. I just worry about him being rejected from something he loves (or comes to love) because of me.

(I've been thinking a lot about it this morning, so maybe you can tell that my feelings have evolved since I wrote the OP.)

[enlightenment]

12. I doubt that would happen, really.

From what you have written, you seem to be very low-key in regard to your personal feeling about religion - short of having to step in if the troop started pushing more religion than you are comfortable with, why would they even know your feelings?

If they want you to sign some sort of pledge, that would be different.

Good luck and I hope you find something that works out for your son.

[rexcat]

9. My twins...

where 6 when they brought a flyer home from school about the scouts and wanted to join. I sat down with them and asked what they wanted out of the scouts. They were interested in camping. I told them that I would not allow them to join the scouts since I would not be able to participate in any scouting activities with them since they discriminate against atheists. I did tell them we could camp in Western North Carolina since my sister and her husband owned a campground. I purchased the tent, sleeping bags and other equipment and we have camped ever since. They are 16 now. We still go to their campground (nothing like free camping) and enjoy the area. We do volunteer work every year when we go camping in the community my sister lives.

[Gore1FL]

10. I did a lot of BSA in my youth and with my son

It's a great organization with a great program.

It also has stupid policies that most people simply ignore.

I know of two atheists who received the rank of Eagle (since 2010) in the troop I was in from 2004-2011. I suspect 2 other of those who earned Eagle Scouts (earlier than 2010) to be gay.

It's all about the troop you join. Find a good one. Sign him up. Let him enjoy the adventure. He'll be the better for it.

[onager]

11. Welcome to the group.

Can't help any with your problem, since I don't have kids. But it's always nice to see a new face...er, profile in here.

[Curmudgeoness]

13. What is it that they are asking that you will have to lie about?

I think that is important about whether you would answer falsely.

Different individual troops are very different, and the national organization has little control over each troop. It is the national group that pushes it's agenda, but it depends on who is in charge locally as to what you will encounter.

I am not a parent, so what I think is hard to back up, but I have always believed that it is a good idea for children to know something about religion. Religion is a major factor in life here in the USA, and knowing about it is not a bad thing. In fact, if you really want a well-rounded education of your child, it is a must to learn about it. I do have a problem with indoctrination at that age, since they can be easily pulled into the crowd. But you know what is best, and you seem to care enough to speak frankly to him about anything he learns from them on religion, if anything.

Good luck, and keep us informed on whether you run into problems.

[sadbear]

14. I'll quote from the application

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which a member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership."

[Curmudgeoness]

15. Ouch!

That is a mouthful. Personally, I would have issues with that, but if they want to make a big show of their faith and you don't care, try it out for your son's sake....just keep track of what they are teaching. I mean really, you aren't going to go to hell for lying.

What a bunch of crap! And just so your son can be with his friends.