Giant Jesus Survives

[Brainstormy]

This morning I stumbled on yet another story hailing the survival of the giant Jesus statue in the wake of Typhoon Haiyan in the Philippines. The fact that many are calling this a miracle, or a sign of hope or a message from god is also yet another example of the twisted, mystifying thinking I encounter among believers. More than 5,000 real people dead; concrete Jesus still stands, and the message is . . . .


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/15/jesus-statue-typhoon_n_4284415.html

[hlthe2b]

1. I don't begrudge any suffering people whatever it takes to keep going and have hope...

and surely those who've managed to survive Haiyan's worst have earned the right to find reason for optimism--wherever that might reside.

[Brainstormy]

2. I'm not begrudging anybody anything

I'm just questioning the twisted logic required to find hope or a reason for optimism in a Jesus who preserves his concrete statue while taking more than 5,000 lives.

[hlthe2b]

3. I do hope if something equally horrendous happens to you, that others don't rush to mock you....

no matter how ridiculous they may find your own ideas.

Live and let live. These people have suffered enough to earn the right to believe as they will, no matter how much you or I may disagree.

[Brainstormy]

5. what group is this?

Oh! It's Atheists and Agnostics. A forum that frequently questions the rationality, or lack thereof, of the religious. For a moment I thought I'd wandered into the Group for People Who Miss the Point.

[frogmarch]

6. +1

[hlthe2b]

7. And it is necessary to mock believers who have experienced the most tragic circumstances imaginable

in order to discuss atheism/agnosticism? I do believe one could fully and freely discuss why it is that this has not shaken their belief and belief systems without the ugly mocking. A cogent and useful discussion might actually emerge.

[PassingFair]

10. I consider a "god" that would leave a statue unharmed, yet annihilate 5 to 10 thousand people....

a pretty "ugly mocker" him/herself.
Is that "cogent" enough?

[hlthe2b]

11. Do you have ANY compassion for these suffering people or is it merely fair game to mock

and exploit for "funnsies"? Damn.

Progressives, indeed.

[PassingFair]

14. Of course I have compassion for the survivors and the dead.

I have no compassion for the umbrage you take against reality.

[hlthe2b]

15. You have certainly not taken time to express ANY such...

I really am amazed, PassingFair... I have always thought better of you than this.

I will be there to help whenever I can--not to mock the suffering.That is my pledge to you and all others.

[PassingFair]

16. You are posting in the Atheist and Agnostics Group

Where we regularly chat about the silliness of worshiping idols.

If any Philippine typhoon survivors wander in here, I'm sure we will
tell them we fell bad for them.

Are you posting from Philippines?

[hlthe2b]

17. One can discuss without mocking, without losing any sense of humane compassion.

That is the issue. I am agnostic and agree that the maintenance of God beliefs in the face of such horror and paradox is worthy of discussion, but NOT mere mockery for the pleasure of entertaining other like minded posters.

And, yes, I DO have friends with family affected or missing. But, even if I knew no one, I would approach the discussion in a manner that encouraged substantive discussion, not exploitative and ugly mockery.

[PassingFair]

18. Show me where we mocked survivors.

Please.

And why AREN'T you in the Philippines helping your friends, per your pledge?

[hlthe2b]

19. How I help is not your business, but I have done what I could and continue to...

For the record, I continue to be involved full time in the flood recovery in Colorado, fostering lost and abandoned pets and aiding in assisting survivors with housing.

Again, none of your business, but I have nothing to be ashamed of in terms of my attempts to help and show my support. And, I will not waste time with those whose contributions seem to be limited to making fun of the plight of those suffering because of religious or other differences. That is HARDLY progressive, in my book.

So, enjoy your mockery session. What goes around, does tend to come around, whether one believes in fate, karma, or mere chance.

[PassingFair]

20. Go curse someone who believes.

No one is making fun of their plight.

You come in here with both axes swinging and expect us to be chastised by you?

I believe it is INHUMANE to worship a god who would destroy people but preserve a statue of his "son".

If that "mocks" people it can't be helped.

Period.

[hlthe2b]

21. I have cursed no one or nothing. I think a civil discussion woudl be useful--

Last edited Sat Nov 16, 2013, 01:50 PM - Edit history (1)

one that is RESPECTFUL of the horror these people are facing.

I would say I can proudly stand behind what I have written and done with respect to this tragedy.

Can YOU say the same?

I'm betting you will say "yes", but your words and actions speak for themselves, and sadly, for any Duers with friends or family in the Philippines.

[PassingFair]

22. Yes. nt

[mr blur]

24. Is it necessary to be so incredibly pompous in order to prove how compassionate you are?

You're in the wrong place. Try Religion.

[hlthe2b]

25. Fail... I am not religious... I think the topic of why religion is clung to in such circumstances is

worthy of discussion for atheists and agnostics, such as myself-- thus my having entered the thread. However, it is apparent that no one as yet wishes to discuss, but merely to mock and ridicule those experiencing tremendous tragedy. Pompous sanctimony belongs to those who believe another's beliefs, with which they disagree, are imperative to deride and denigrate--no matter what else may be occurring.

[Iggo]

34. Yes.

[PassingFair]

12. LOL nt

[Stuckinthebush]

41. Now that was funny

Where is that picture of the line going past the point?

[defacto7]

31. These people have suffered enough

to earn the right to learn from the mistakes of the past and rise above the destruction by way of reality, not be encouraged to follow the way of the deception that stole their right to reason and kept them from advancing to a point where responsibility could replace mysticism. That responsibility could give them the means to protect themselves from such an event.

I wouldn't for a moment belittle them or degrade their humanity by encouraging false hope at the cost of knowledge and fact based hope. There's no contest there.

[hlthe2b]

32. How patronizing to suggest these people are not "smart enough" to protect themselves...

How, exactly were they not doing everything to protect themselves, but as you are implying sitting there hopelessly waiting for a miracle to save them. Please DO tell us exactly what they were supposed to do with a typhoon of this magnitude bearing down on them? Hmmm, so reminiscent of the RW telling all of us how the population of NOLA (i.e., African Americans) were too ignorant or reliant on the government to save themselves. Geebus!

That they have beliefs that give them comfort is quite different from the horrendously patronizing and condescending attitude you are expressing towards them. Ever been to the Philippines? These are not stupid people.

Good gawd. Show some damned compassion and move past your ugly prejudices!

[defacto7]

33. It's unfortunate that the mirror of your words

shines directly on yourself. You can't even read the comment without interjecting your bias of my intentions and thoughts with ill-will and non-truth. There are several insults in your comment that are baited with inaccuracy.

You are the one who is patronizing, belittling and insulting here... and I do not believe your sincerity... not for a moment.

[hlthe2b]

35. Your own words and condescension are what you are projecting-- no surprise

Showing NO respect whatsoever, but rather blaming the victim--all because they happen to hold religious beliefs. And yet, you claim to be a progressive?

You are the one who really needs to rethink. I am agnostic and do not share their Catholicism but to deride them for seeking comfort in those beliefs and inferring they are culpable for what has happened to them because of those beliefs-- is beyond the pale. It certainly sounds like the flip side of Pat Robertson, whether you mean to or not.

[defacto7]

36. ...

[uriel1972]

37. Blaming the victim? No I don't think so...

I do not deride them for seeking comfort, I do however wish to point out the cognitive break that sees a just and loving God, who has the power to save a statue, but not save the 5,000+ worshipers. Or worse, leaves the statue behind as they deliberately kill 5000+ worshipers.

It seems to me they are backing the wrong horse in this race. That's not mocking, that's just stating what seems to me to be the obvious. I'm not pointing saying 'hahahah they're so stupid' as you seem to think we are, but merely saying I think they're wrong on this one.

We can say "I think you are wrong' can't we. We do so to Republicans and RWingers regularly. I don't see what the difference here is.

What happened is horrific, there is no denying it, but that is why I am so angry at the idea of a loving God who lets such things occur to people who have done nothing...NOTHING to deserve it.

[hlthe2b]

38. It is not you who has made derisional and mocking comments...

It is others on this thread. I agree that the issue of why such tragedy would not shake their beliefs is a topic worth discussing.

I think if you will read through the thread, you will see the ugliness to which I take issue.

[PassingFair]

42. But, but....his pledge!

He PLEDGED!

[Curmudgeoness]

39. Exactly what they were supposed to do....

you are right, there was nothing more they could do at the time the typhoon was heading their way. But what bothers me the most is that so many of the people were living in hovels made of plywood and sticks with a corrugated roof, while they took at the materials and efforts available to them to build a statue that would withstand a typhoon. That is what bothers me so much. Peoples' living conditions were set at a lower priority than the statue.

[hlthe2b]

40. which is a completely valid point to make, IMO

and rendered with not a tinge of mockery or ridicule.

[PassingFair]

8. Glory! A miracle!

[hlthe2b]

9. If you worship reindeer antlers, I suppose.

I really don't get the need to exploit such horrendous person tragedies, just to make a point about how "wrong" the victims may be regarding their beliefs. Seems needlessly cruel, IMO.

[PassingFair]

13. That's the miracle of Butter Jesus.

How DARE you mock my miracles!

[Rob H.]

27. He even has his own song!

[Brainstormy]

28. Love it! nt

[frogmarch]

4. ...and the message is

"Oops, sorry about that."

[Vashta Nerada]

23. That's the glory of god.

He'll kill 5,000 people but let a giant Jesus statue keep standing in the wake of a hurricane.

[Warpy]

26. I'll match the pristine Jebus standing over a devastated country he did nothing to save

with Hugo Chavez on a subway wall. No, I can't see it either, but apparently they can.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/hugo-chavez-face-mysteriously-appeared-successor-article-1.1502769

[BlueStreak]

29. And Jesus was helpful to that community, how?

What is the point of worshiping an idol like that if the storm wipes your town off the map anyway? And if they had put half the effort into building their homes that the put into that statue, their houses would still be standing and everybody would be safe.

[defacto7]

30. I would question

putting that much material, money and effort into any statue that could withstand a level 5 hurricane when the people have nothing to protect them. THAT is damning.