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theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 09:00 AM Mar 2014

Good grief -- I honestly had no idea!

I was reading up on developments of the Catholic church's child sex abuse scandal and came across this article, which pretty much lays out just how much money this one archdiocese is worth. Good grief! This isn't a church -- this is a global mega-corporation raking in cash free of oversight while preaching about ending poverty and balking at paying sex abuse victims. If just this one diocese is worth this much, how much money is floating around in church coffers around the world? And we're being preached to about capitalism and poverty while they're talking about the success of their managed funds and investments? Yeah, okay. No wonder they have millions to throw at anti-gay, anti-woman legislation and lobbyists around the world. That's chump change.

The Sydney Morning Herald (Australia)
Sydney's Catholic Archdiocese has assets over $1 billion, royal commission told
Date March 25, 2014 - 3:31PM
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/sydneys-catholic-archdiocese-has-assets-over-1-billion-royal-commission-told-20140325-35fu8.html#ixzz2wyhA9PKP

Sydney's Catholic Archdiocese, thought to be the richest in the country, controls funds with assets of $1.24 billion and generates annual multimillion-dollar surpluses, according to evidence at the child sex abuse royal commission...

...The royal commission was shown accounts revealing that the Catholic Development Fund held $810 million, including $321 million in cash at the end of 2013. The procuration fund from which sexual abuse claims are made held $426 million, including real estate assets of $207 million. This included buildings and land used “substantially” for church purposes.

The archdiocese's reported net assets in 2013 were $192 million...

...Last year's $9.1 million surplus included a 125-year lease transaction contributing $5.5 million and “we had a very good year with our managed funds and out investments," he said.... MORE






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Good grief -- I honestly had no idea! (Original Post) theHandpuppet Mar 2014 OP
The Roman Catholic Church? Hypocritical? Surely they jest! Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #1
Well, at least they pay their taxes. Oh, wait.... mr blur Mar 2014 #2
My thought exactly. nt Curmudgeoness Mar 2014 #8
I am repeatedly told 'most churches are poor and barely scrape by'. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #3
Yeah, I hear that line all the time theHandpuppet Mar 2014 #4
To be fair, there's a big difference between diocesan and parish finances Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #5
By design. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #6
But ... but ... Popey washed a guy's feet! Arugula Latte Mar 2014 #7
I am confused. Curmudgeoness Mar 2014 #9
Accounting is not my field and I don't know Australian law, TxDemChem Mar 2014 #10
That's the sad part of this. Curmudgeoness Mar 2014 #11
I know! I had to chuckle when you couldn't make heads or tails of it. TxDemChem Mar 2014 #12
And that is just what the church acts like it is doing. Curmudgeoness Mar 2014 #13
They are frauding and perpetrating. TxDemChem Mar 2014 #15
Something seems a little off. defacto7 Mar 2014 #14
But the more you dig, the more you find out just how deep those pockets are theHandpuppet Mar 2014 #16
My eyeballs have popped out so far now they're knockin' my nose... theHandpuppet Mar 2014 #17
It does make sense, it's just that defacto7 Mar 2014 #20
Robert Heinlein nailed it... onager Mar 2014 #18
Hard to wrong quoting RAH! Jgarrick Mar 2014 #19

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
3. I am repeatedly told 'most churches are poor and barely scrape by'.
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:17 AM
Mar 2014

I think those people are being misled, by a marketing gimmick.

This comes of the false trust most people imbue in other religious people. Makes them easy prey.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
4. Yeah, I hear that line all the time
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:44 AM
Mar 2014

In fact, it was used when the "Little Sisters of the Poor" filed a lawsuit against the HHS contraception mandate on the grounds that if they had to pay fines for not adhering to the law, they might not be able to afford their ministries to the poor. Yeah, right -- but the church can afford to throw millions into lobbying and lawsuits.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
5. To be fair, there's a big difference between diocesan and parish finances
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:05 PM
Mar 2014

Individual churches are likely to be pretty poor, even in staggeringly wealthy dioceses. Not only do bigtime donors make their contributions at the diocesan level, but money also tends to flow "up" from the parishes to their parent diocese. There has also been some tell of dioceses confiscating donations meant for individual parishes, but I don't know how commonplace that is.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
6. By design.
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:19 PM
Mar 2014

If the church the people attend always seems poor, that raises the impetus to donate for the members.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
9. I am confused.
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 07:37 PM
Mar 2014

Maybe my math skills are failing, but how is it that this archdiocese "controls funds with assets of $1.24 billion", but reported "net assets in 2013 of $192 million"? Not that the smaller amount is anything to sneeze at, but that is one huge gap.

This is quite a post! I always knew that the Catholic church was swimming in money, as are many other churches, but this is beyond even my expectations---and as you said, for one diocese.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
10. Accounting is not my field and I don't know Australian law,
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 07:57 PM
Mar 2014

But I wonder if the net is just how much they made last year in donations, tithes, etc. and that's all they are reporting. Either way, that's a shit load of money.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
12. I know! I had to chuckle when you couldn't make heads or tails of it.
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 09:12 PM
Mar 2014

One of favorite atheist podcasts, The Imaginary Friends Show, is out of Austrailia. I'm going to see if I can get the host to try to explain what those net assets for 2013 mean. Hopefully he'll know more about why "only" a paltry $192 mil were given.

If I had that kind if money, I'd be donating to secular and/or more beneficial causes than just letting it sit in church bank accounts.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
13. And that is just what the church acts like it is doing.
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 09:19 PM
Mar 2014

Helping others, feeding the poor, charity. Bah.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
15. They are frauding and perpetrating.
Wed Mar 26, 2014, 06:40 AM
Mar 2014

The sex abuse fund is still shocking to me. The fact that they even need a fund shows a lot about how the Catholic Church overall operates.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
14. Something seems a little off.
Wed Mar 26, 2014, 01:47 AM
Mar 2014

That would make its cash value greater than the holdings of the Vatican... minus the properties and art of course. But the most wealthy church on the planet per-capita is the Mormon church by a rather great margin. Some of their single holdings exceed the 1.24 billion mark and many of their holdings are well disguised but we are all dependent on those corporations.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
16. But the more you dig, the more you find out just how deep those pockets are
Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:14 AM
Mar 2014

For instance, here's a news article that just came out today. Some of these dioceses must be rolling in dough. How this all relates to Vatican wealth -- as opposed to the wealth of the church as a whole -- I cannot say. How they have structured their finances is way beyond me.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/pope-replaces-german-bling-bishop-inquiry-23062117
Associated Press

Pope Francis on Wednesday permanently removed a German bishop from his Limburg diocese after his 31 million-euro ($43-million) new residence complex caused an uproar among the faithful.

Francis had temporarily expelled Monsignor Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst from Limburg in October pending a church inquiry.

At the center of the controversy was the price tag for the construction of a new bishop's residence complex and related renovations. Tebartz-van Elst defended the expenditures, saying the bill was actually for 10 projects and there were additional costs because the buildings were under historical protection.

But in a country where Martin Luther launched the Reformation five centuries ago in response to what he said were excesses and abuses within the church, the outcry was enormous. The perceived lack of financial transparency also struck a chord since a church tax in Germany brings in billions a year to the German church....

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
17. My eyeballs have popped out so far now they're knockin' my nose...
Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:40 AM
Mar 2014

Like I said, I really had no idea. Another recent article...

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=1a685537-b674-462d-9189-21772d2f4be4
US Catholic Church a $170 billion business
Among Pope Francis' challenges will be oversight of the sprawling, lucrative -- but embattled -- American organization.
By Bruce Kennedy Mar 14, 2013 1:05PM

It's a new era for the Roman Catholic Church as it welcomes its first non-European pope of the modern age.

Many Catholics are watching closely to see which direction Pope Francis, born Jorge Mario Bergoglio, of Argentina, will take their church. Along with becoming the spiritual leader of the estimated 1.2 billion Catholics worldwide, he's also assuming the leadership of one of the globe's largest businesses.

The church does not release financial data, but a lengthy report by The Economist last year said annual spending by the Vatican and church-owned entities in the U.S. alone was about $170 billion in 2010. While there are no hard data about the U.S. Catholic Church's annual revenue, Slate puts those spending numbers into some perspective -- noting that in fiscal 2012 Apple (AAPL +0.52%) had $157 billion in revenue and that only 16 companies have more than $170 billion in revenue....

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
20. It does make sense, it's just that
Wed Mar 26, 2014, 04:33 PM
Mar 2014

the data flows in on a daily basis it seems and the number just gets bigger and bigger... Yikes.

onager

(9,356 posts)
18. Robert Heinlein nailed it...
Wed Mar 26, 2014, 01:58 PM
Mar 2014

"The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history."

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