Paging Heddi...

[onager]

So I go to the medical office today for routine blood work.

Now this is a Kaiser-Permanente facility in good ol' uber-diverse Los Angeles. The staff who checked me in, the vampire who took my blood, etc. were all a bunch of various ethnicities. They ranged from Asian (with blue hair; no, not blue-black, metallic blue), to Hispanic, to Standard White-n-Blackfolks and I think Armenian (judging by his nametag).

I'm guessing they were equally diverse in their religion, or lack of.

But during the procedure, I'm sitting right across from a sampler/wall hanging cheerily informing me: "With God, all things are possible."

I really try not to be one of those super-touchy atheists who barks about all forms of ceremonial Xianity. But Jesus H. Christ in a sidecar with Moses driving the bike - can't people keep this crap in their own spaces or offices or wherever? Why should I have to put up with religious propaganda EVERY DAMN PLACE I GO, including a medical office? It just gets annoying.

/grump

[trotsky]

1. It's all about a two-way street of tolerance, onager.

Believers tolerate that we are allowed to (silently) exist.

We must tolerate their beliefs no matter how they choose to express them.

See how wonderfully reciprocal that is? It's Kumbaya time!

[skepticscott]

2. Yes, but when atheists put up a billboard saying "we exist"

the religionistas over in Religion and elsewhere go ballistic about how terrible their "aggressive" "in your face" atheism is, and how much proclaiming that they exist "hurts the atheist movement" (whatever the fuck that is).

No expression of atheism other than shutting the fuck up and avoiding anything that might offend any religious person (like we've been doing for thousands of years with no effect) will be acceptable to them.

[JNelson6563]

15. Right on the money my dear.

It gets tiresome, doesn't it?

Hugs to you and Mrs. Skeptic!

Julie

[skepticscott]

16. Tiresome as

a Midwest winter, my friend. Hugs back atcha!

Mrs S. and I are both down with colds this weekend...our punishment from the universe for four days of unbridled hedonism in Vegas.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. It's "just" a wall hanging, onager.

Stop being so sensitive. Everyone is free to ignore things like this, right? So STFU.

Oh, sorry, I forgot that it is only the atheists who are supposed to ignore this sort of thing.

In case it is needed

[Mr.Bill]

4. No Atheist

has ever knocked on my door to talk me into joining them.

[Heddi]

5. This shit pisses me off.

Especially in the public health sector. Lots of people go to labs to get their blood drawn, not just Christians.

I get annoyed with shit like this. What is so fucking hard about making a public workplace comfortable for all people?

I work in a clinic--it's owned/run by a very large, public, for-profit, secular company. Besides the thankfully no-longer-existent Monday Morning Prayer Meetings, our workplace is free of anything religious-based. There's very nice black & white photography throughout the building, and our patients LOVE THAT SHIT. They eat it up like puddin' pie. Good god do they love old photos of Philadelphia.

THat's fine. That's great. Why is that so hard to do? Sure, I get it. 99.999999999% of people are Christian (to Christians), so who gives a shit if non-Christians are offended. Or whatever? It's not even that I"m offended if I see a Christian-saying or bible verse sign somewhere. But I'll tell you what I AM am....I am...afraid...of what they would say or think, or how I would be treated differently (as a patient) were they to find out that I'm not a Christian.

What if they were to find out that I'm not heterosexual? Or Atheist? Would i be treated differently? Would that needle poke be a little less gentle, a little more prone to error than if I were known or believed to be a penis-loving friend of Jesus?

That's how we see that shit. "How will I be treated if I'm found to be different?"

Because what's the point of putting up a Christ-or-God-centric art or saying or photo if not to say to others HEY LOOK THIS IS WHAT I THINK/FEEL/BELIEVE.

It's just so gauche.

So would a sign, in that same place, that says With Atheism, All Thought Is Possible.

There are places for that. There are times for that.

As a nurse, I am reminded constantly that my patients are a "captive audience," so to speak. Especially in a hospital setting. Laying in a hospital bed with tubes running in and out doesn't really give one much choice in their location. They have no choice over the staff that tend to them. So, as a nurse, it's my job (and the job of my other medical counterparts) to make patients feel as comfortable as they can when they're in that captive setting.

Although not in a hospital setting, I still hold the view of "captive audience" regarding my patients. I smile and nod regardless what they say to me. Hate Obama? hmm. Wanna talk about 9/11? hmmm.

Just today I had a patient go on and on about an effeminate male RN he had whilst he was recently hospitalized. Even used the "limp wristed" hand movement. Oh? hmm.... and went on with what I was doing.

He's as much of a captive audience as I am, but I hold a position of power and trust and authority that he doesn't have. If I were to rip into him "Hey hey you know that's a very bigoted attitude to have" what would I have gained other than getting a reprimand from my boss, and the loss of a patient. He may have still come back to the clinic, but his TRUST in my authority (medical, not power) would be diminished. The relationship would be diminished. The ability to trust my judgement and advice would be diminished.

Same with religion. Why bring it up with patients? Or politics? It's a losing proposition for me, and it risks alienating the patient. Why work with patients if you want to make them feel uncomfortable?

Which is what that sign was---it made you, the customer, feel alienated. It made you feel uncomfortable, and it made you wonder if you'd be treated differently by your medical team.

[onager]

7. Thanks! Knew I could count on you.

Yes, that's it exactly - I did feel a bit alienated.

And if the pending house sale/move goes thru, I'll be feeling a whole shit-pot-full more alienated. I'm struggling with some of the very issues you brought up right now.

I'm probably moving to one of the most red-state/Fundie parts of the nation, where I grew up. I'll be dealing with my elderly mother, who knows I have no use for religion but is fairly devout herself. Like almost all her relatives/friends.

I'm really struggling to strike that balance between not hurting my mother, and drawing a line in the mud for all the religious snake-oil salespeople I just KNOW I'm going to be dealing with.

Couple of years ago I was at home during Xmas, and Mom found a newspaper article about some preacher she knows personally. His hobby is...I shit you not...working as an Elvis impersonator.

She read me the article and I grumped: "Far as I'm concerned, all preachers are impersonators."

Mom gave me a dirty look but didn't pursue it further. I think we'll be having many more similar conversations in the near future...

[Heddi]

8. I'm sorry you're having to go through that. We're thinking of changing locations, too

I currently am getting my BSN through University of Texas, and they have a very highly rated Nurse Practitioner program that I'm thinking of attending once I'm done with this round of school. Thing is, I'd have to move to Texas for at least 2.5-3 years of the program (how many classes I take depends on whether I don't work and plow through, or do part time work and 3/4 time school.

We've looked at Houston, as it's near the water (necessary) and is affordable. We still have going back to Fl. on our list as a possibility as well. I know Fl, and it's full (at least the part we're looking at) of Libertarian ron-paul types, which I think are even more annoying that Republicans. At least republicans are open about their stupidity. The Libertarian sect usually has this "runs on smug" nouveaux doucheness about them. Republicans eschew education, and Libertarians are like 'yeh, I took a few classes at the Tech School, so i'm very educated on most things, especially economics." which I tend to find even more insufferable.

[AlbertCat]

20. You guys!!!

TX and FL are not the USSR y'know!

How can you guys fearful of moving to a red state let others determine your happiness or not? I know you really aren't.... you are just being overly concerned. There are liberal and open-minded people everywhere! ( and even some conservatives are not dreadful..... some.....) So you have to roll your eyes a lot for 2 or 3 years. Surely attaining your (very exacting and difficult) goals are worth it, n'est pas?

[Heddi]

21. They are, and even a liberal paradise like Seattle was quite insufferable at times

Jesus Christ...it got really tiresome competing with the More Liberal Than Thou crowd. "Oh, Heddi, you can't be serious when you say you don't make reusable tampons out of free-range, organic, hormone-free cotton twine from cotton that you grew and picked yourself, turned into thread, and then made into various feminine hygiene products, are you??? You fucking monster"

[skepticscott]

17. Yes, the scolds over in Religion don't seem to grasp that

when they upbraid people for saying things on an Internet discussion board that they wouldn't say to friends, family, co-workers, or customers. Certain things need to be said, at the same time that certain relationships need to be maintained without rancor.

[AtheistCrusader]

6. Probably because catholics are busy wresting control of every hospital they can

for reasons that I can only assume are related to refusing to offer abortion services.

[Heddi]

9. I'm glad I don't work in Seattle anymore

HMC and UWMC, which are sister hospitals, and I think VM were the only secular hospitals left. All the hospitals to the south are bought up by the St's and Swedish was bought by Providence, which already owns Everett.

sickening

[AtheistCrusader]

10. I refuse to go anywhere but UWMC.

I actually drive twice as far as I could to go to Swedish, and it is worth it.

[Heddi]

11. my husband used to work at Swedish

he worked there for years prior to the Providence takeover. I mean "joint venture." There was a lot of hush hush in the community that SWEDISH WAS NOT BOUGHT OUT BY PROVIDENCE THIS IS A JOINT VENTURE ALL PARTIES BENEFITS but it's really true that Prov bought Swedish. Swedish had previously been the largest medical employer of the state.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. I'm sure it's just out of the goodness of their loving, jeebus-filled hearts they are buying

all these hospitals. No other reason.

[progressoid]

13. Yeah, you know it's out of the goodness of their hearts

because they are "non-profit".

[Warren Stupidity]

14. There you go again proposing genocide.*

* dear jury, this is a reference to an actual accusation that was made against AtheistCrusader for suggesting that the religious institution takeover of hospitals was problematic.

[olddots]

18. everywhere we go somebody is trying to sell us something

Might as well be a new diet scam or accepting Shecky as our lord and savior .

Relgion is a very profitable product unregulated by logic .

pass the plate.

[AlbertCat]

19. "With God, all things are possible."

That's kinda insulting in a medical institution.

Are the curing AIDS there....with god?

How about old age?

Did god get rid of polio? Or was that doctors... and researchers.... and scientists?

Is god doing the CAT scans? Shall we fire the technicians who run that machine?



Sheesh!