another group I didn't know existed on DU

[ellenrr]

who the f*ck would put an atheist group under "religion and spirituality"?!

I have just read a great book by Sam Harris, entitled Waking Up: Spirituality without religion. He strips religious dogma from meditation practices, and as a meditator, I find it very useful.

[skepticscott]

1. Who the fuck?

How about people who recognize that whackadoodle religious beliefs and their negative effect on society are issues of great importance to atheists, not to mention the fundamental question of whether religions have any basis in physical fact in the first place?

Good enough for you?

[Brainstormy]

2. actually no

I asked that same question about the organization of the A&A group when I first joined. The only good explanation is someone's sense of irony.

and just curious: why was your response so nasty? I still think it's a perfectly legitimate question.

[ellenrr]

12. as to why the response is nasty..

that is the DU default isn't it?

[JRLeft]

3. Agreed Atheists stands for Antitheists.

We don't believe in religion or a God(s) because there is no evidence either is true.

[skepticscott]

6. No, it doesn't

the two are not the same, though many people are both.

[JRLeft]

7. You're right.

[Iggo]

9. I'm atheist because there are no gods evident.

I'm not antitheist because I'm not generally against (anti-) those who believe in gods (theists). I know for a fact they exist. And I don't want to convert them, brainwash them, or obliterate them. So I'm not antitheist.

I'm just a person who can't believe in gods, and that's because there are no gods evident.

[Act_of_Reparation]

38. The word is "anti-theist" not "anti-theistist"

Ergo, an "anti-theist" stands against religion, not theists.

I am not against theists. I don't want to convert them, brainwash them, or obliterate them. I'm an anti-theist because I don't think religion deserves a privileged place in our society no matter how many people get the warm and fuzzies because of it.

[mr blur]

4. The honest answer is: because the Powers-That-Be put it there.

Don't know why. Perhaps they thought it was amusing. Perhaps they think that Atheism Is A Religion (many do)

[JRLeft]

5. A lot people believe we worship Satan too.

[Iggo]

10. They can't wrap their brains around the notion of not worshipping anything.

Because then they'd have to imagine that none of it is real.

And they won't do that.

[JRLeft]

13. If we say there's no such thing as dragons or fairies, theists will nod

their head in agreement, but if you tell them the story of a man living in a live fish in the ocean for 3 days......you best believe they believe it is true.

[bvf]

8. Wondered the same thing myself.

But sort of half-wondered the same thing about the Buddhism group. Philosophy, or spiritualism?

[ellenrr]

11. Buddhism IS a religion, also a philosophy..

Is philosophy under "religion"? That's stupid.
"Spiritualism" - I guess that is like Madam Ofensky?

[bvf]

14. As Mr. Blur pointed out above,

that seems to be the admins' call.

(I dont think the philosophy group is categorized in the Religion group, FWIW.)

Personally, I gave up trying to figure out a lot of what goes on around here a long time ago.

Only thing I'm really sure about is that imaginary beings are just that, and I arrived here already certain of that.

[onager]

17. Some people prefer "Other Ways of Knowing."

But in here we mostly laugh at that idea. So feel free to express yourself. Worst that'll happen is one of the many spies who look over our shoulders may Alert on you.

"Spiritualism" - I guess that is like Madam Ofensky?

Did you mean Helena Blavatsky, the Woo-Woo version of Joseph Smith, founder of Theosophy, etc etc? Yeah, she was a spiritualist and occultist. And a whomping big fraud.

While I'm nitpicking, I think her honorific would be "Madame." With a "Madam" being the proprietor of a whorehouse. OTOH, when talking about peddlers of woo and religion, "Madam" fits them perfectly.

[ellenrr]

19. yes thanks, that's who I meant. As I said in my initial post,

I find the most recent book by renowned atheist Sam Harris very useful and entertaining.
I plan to read his others.
Anyone familiar with him?

[mr blur]

20. Try "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason"

Deals with the conflict/clash between faith and reason.

[Promethean]

15. An equally important question is:

Where else would you put put it? Atheism is after all at least related to religion in being defined as the lack of it.

[Lordquinton]

16. I would say wherever the philosophy group is

but Arts & Humanities isn't right either.

[LostOne4Ever]

29. I would say under People nt

[progressoid]

18. Well, to be fair, we mostly discuss religion so it seems appropriate.

[edhopper]

21. This

it is a forum where religion is the main topic.

None of the regular posters seem to mind where it is.

Does it really matter what group it is in?

To the OP: Since you are so outraged about it..."who the fuck!"...where do you think it should be to fit into your categorization.

[ellenrr]

25. I don't care where it is. I was annoyed that I didn't know it was here...since

I value logic - I don't believe in the supernatural.
and since I value logic I don't see why atheism is under religion.
Since things are not usually defined by what they are not.

Why would an atheist group have as "the main topic" religion?

That's like a vegetarian group talking about meat.
Sure a vegie group may discuss the bad things about meat- but certainly not make meat the "main topic".

I'm not outraged, I just thot it was weird. no matter really.

I guess most posters are more interested in discussing this, than in talking about books.
I'd rather talk about ideas.

[edhopper]

31. We talk about ideas here

and we talk about religion.
Start a thread about something and we will talk about it.

[ellenrr]

32. ok, is anyone here familiar with the program on wbai radio station called

equal time for free thought?
http://www.wbai.org/program.php?program=138

mission statement:
"To explore and represent an evidence-based world view, thereby providing a forum for social change based on secular humanism, scientific naturalism, and healthy skepticism."

what is your opinion?
Is there more to atheism/agnosticism than raging against religion?

[edhopper]

35. of course there is

but honestly, this forum is a place people use to mostly rage about and poke fun at religion. I would say there is much more humor here than anger. For many. talking about religion in their public lives isn't possible, so this is a safe space for it.

But I don't think people here see that as the main aspect of their lives. More like an outlet.

There is a Science forum and a Pseudoscience/Skeptic forum as well. That might be were people post on those subjects.

[Curmudgeoness]

22. With 21 replies here, no one has said "welcome aboard" yet

so let me do that. Glad that you found the group. Many of us have read Sam Harris and other atheist writers. I have not read the book you just read, but that is because the title would turn me off. Personally, I am not interested in "spirituality" either.

Hope you enjoy it here...and ignore the ones who are nasty.

[mr blur]

24. "...the ones who are nasty"?

Well, there are no nasty atheists here. But - we do get the occasional theist dropping in to show us how smart they are. Like that ever works.

But, ellenrr, Curmudgeoness is quite right, welcome to the group.

[ellenrr]

27. thx. nt

[ellenrr]

26. thank you. but you have given the lie to your 'name', not being a curmudgeon.

[Curmudgeoness]

40. Occasionally,

I have a bad day and decide to be nice. I hate when that happens.

[ellenrr]

41. I'm trying to be nicer on du. (and mostly altho not always succeeding). When

I first came here, I fell into the default set by many of being obnoxious.
I meet much nicer people now.

[awoke_in_2003]

45. Life here is better

If you avoid the Hillary group, Bernie group, and GD: Primaries. I would rather watch a shit flinging fight in the primate cages then go to those places.

[ellenrr]

46. yesterday I ran into someone I know slightly. first thing out of her mouth

was, "Who do you hope will be the presidential candidate?"
I was taken aback.
There is a reason we vote behind a curtain.
We don't necessarily want to be public about our vote or our hoped for candidate.

[RussBLib]

23. so how did you find the group?

And here's a second "Welcome." Thanks, Curmudgeonness.

I think I stumbled upon this group by looking at every group in all the "Topics" until "Eureka"!

Sam's "Letter to a Christian Nation" is probably my fave of his. Short and sweet.

[ellenrr]

28. hmmm.. probably found the group by a post which showed on the

"newest threads" page.
I want to read more by Sam.
I like the way he writes, altho I don't understand everything in the book I just read.
But I value him being a neuroscientist.

[LostOne4Ever]

30. Welcome to the A&A group

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Not to be confused with the AA (african american's group) or AA (alcoholics anonymous) or even AAA (the american automotive association).

Here is some welcoming cake:

[/font]

[ellenrr]

33. lol. what a beautiful cake! Just a small piece please....with a flower.

[NeoGreen]

34. Not to hijack the thread...(btw: hi & welcome elenrr)...but...

...did someone say....




http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/10/god-of-cake.html

[NeoGreen]

36. Hi & Welcome ellenrr...your post leads me to ask (the group in general)...

...should we actively advertise our existence?

Should we periodically re-enact Horton Hears a Who within the greater DU sphere?

By our own rules (which I just now skimmed over for the 1st time, albeit not in their entirety) we seem to self mandate such action...

4. The hosts want to discourage negativity and encourage the promotion of the positive aspects of non-belief. If you read a good thread in A&A, rec it. If you encounter an atheist or agnostic in other areas of DU that you don't see in A&A, invite them over.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123031184

Oh, and despite what could be inferred from the Curmudgeoness comment...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123049056#post22

we're not all nasty. Many of us are just weird:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=37804

[AlbertCat]

37. who the f*ck would put an atheist group under "religion and spirituality"?!

I dunno....

But it makes it easier to check out the malarkey the religious are puttering about and saying.

[gcomeau]

42. Hell I'm still trying to figure out...

...why it's "atheists and agnostics" considering agnostics can be theists so this is basically named the "everybody but gnostic theists" group.


(Actually, I know why, the improper understanding of the word agnostic is a pet peeve of mine and it's pretty obvious that was the cause of the forum name... but it still grates on my nerves every time I read it...)

[JNelson6563]

43. A belated welcome!

I agree about the placement of our group! Still somehow we manage to have grand times here...surrounded by the proverbial enemy.

Julie

[ellenrr]

44. thanks.