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Thu Jun 1, 2017, 04:50 PM

Would there be a Republican party without ...

Last edited Fri Jun 2, 2017, 04:29 AM - Edit history (1)

fundamentalism? Or even just Christianity as practiced in much of this country?







Republicans, fundamentalists, and a number of Christians have one thing in common: an Authoritarian Personality. Are people born with this personality type or is it developed through their religious conditioning growing up?

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Would there be a Republican party without ... (Original post)
Duppers Jun 2017 OP
CanonRay Jun 2017 #1
Duppers Jun 2017 #6
CanonRay Jun 2017 #11
Iggo Jun 2017 #2
Beearewhyain Jun 2017 #3
Duppers Jun 2017 #7
Binkie The Clown Jun 2017 #4
mountain grammy Jun 2017 #5
Duppers Jun 2017 #9
Duppers Jun 2017 #8
rurallib Jun 2017 #10
Duppers Jun 2017 #12
Freelancer Jun 2017 #13
Duppers Jun 2017 #17
trotsky Jun 2017 #14
Duppers Jun 2017 #18
Bayard Jun 2017 #15
Duppers Jun 2017 #16
progressoid Jun 2017 #19
beam me up scottie Jun 2017 #20
Duppers Jun 2017 #21
beam me up scottie Jun 2017 #22
Duppers Jun 2017 #23

Response to Duppers (Original post)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 05:02 PM

1. It would probably look like Eisenhower's party

Except for these religious zealots

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 07:13 PM

6. I agree.

Thank you. I'm tempted to edit my OP to reflect the fact that I mean the present rethugs.

Btw, I know of no objective, informed Republicans (I'm surrounded by them). I do know some young, southern brainwashed atheistic libertarians. They are as stubbornly brainwashed and uninformed as their religious counterparts. Their number are few though. Thankfully. I left an atheist group because I couldn't deal with their stupidity and ignorance.


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Response to Duppers (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 11:58 PM

11. Young and Libertarian seem to go together

Upon closer inspection it ju doesn't work.

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Response to Duppers (Original post)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 05:24 PM

2. Of course, there would be.

They'd just find something else to make stupid people vote for them.

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Response to Duppers (Original post)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 05:41 PM

3. I'm gonna go with no

The mindset is almost identical. It is only with the determined moral certitude that they possess, absent of any fact, that could justify their spiteful, impetuous and downright evil world view. It is only through the lens of "god" that they could ever justify what they wreak and is indiscernible from fundamentalist islam.

When you possess an ideology that, at its core, says "you" are superior to "them", bad things are inevitable. That said, as Atheist we are not immune just much less susceptible as long as we keep questioning at the forefront.

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Response to Beearewhyain (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 07:14 PM

7. Well said!

Thank you!





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Response to Duppers (Original post)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 06:36 PM

4. Yes. There would still be white supremacists and nationalistic "patriots".

IMHO It's as much about jingoes as it is about fundamentalists.

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 06:46 PM

5. You're probably right

But there's that "having god on our side" crap that seems to give them a boost..

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 07:28 PM

9. Exactly!

Thanks, MG!

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 07:27 PM

8. True.

I just mentioned atheistic libertarians I know above.

However, I think many of these jingoes are fueled by their religion - basically they believe the US is fighting Islam to protect Christianity around the world. And their American exceptionalism is born of their religious exceptionalism. It's a general mindset.


Beearewhyain said it best above.





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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 1, 2017, 07:39 PM

10. The current radial repugs seem to be the heirs of George Wallace,

the KKK, the Birch Society and so forth.

So there was a home for the fringe, but religion wasn't quite as central as it is in today's fringey repugs.

Religion was just another avenue they exploited. The wonderful thing about religion is there is no way to prove anything, so the wildest claims are accepted as true.

I don't know if that makes sense, but the fringe has always had some home. This is the first time a so called mainstream party went wacky to get and hold on to them.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 2, 2017, 04:41 AM

12. A look into their personality type

Last edited Fri Jun 2, 2017, 05:41 AM - Edit history (2)

Addressing the followers, Erich Fromm stated:

"What they have in common, what defines the essence of the authoritarian personality is an inability: the inability to rely on one’s self, to be independent, to put it in other words: to endure freedom.”
____

"This would explain why some are so willing to follow leaders that obviously are not interested in freedoms or liberties, but quite the opposite. Let's face it, being free is a lot of work and too tough for some.

Authoritarian followers seek the protection, or what they see as protection, of strong authoritarian leaders. And followers will strongly defend this authority in a number of ways including the persecution of whistle-blowers, investigative journalists, protesters, and liberals in general; those that challenge authorities and seek the truth. This disturbs the followers because they don't want to deal with the truth, they really can't handle the truth.

Authoritarian leaders on the other hand, while seeming to be tough and strong, actually are nothing without their submissive followers. But hese apparently strong, tough leaders themselves are followers to a higher authoritarian authority (ie, the bigger bully).

This is not to say that all authority contains something pathological? There is a very significant distinction between rational and irrational authority.

“Rational authority is the recognition of authority based on critical evaluation of competences. When a student recognizes the teacher’s authority to know more than him, then this a reasonable evaluation of his competence.”
Rational authority is not based on excluding reason and critique but rather assumes it as a prerequisite.
This does not make one small and the authority great but allows authority to be superior where and as long it possesses competence. Rational authority is challenged often. The respect for this authority must be maintained.

On the other hand irrational authority is based on emotional submission to another person, follower to leader. This is not because of a belief that the leader is competent, honorable, or principled, but more likely because of a perceived strength that the follower admires. Irrational authority is never challenged by the follower, and the follower will try to silence those that do challenge the authority, because it might expose the authority (leader) to be a fraud.

“The opposite of the (irrational) authoritarian character is the mature person: a person who does not need to cling to others because they actively embrace and grasp the world, the people, and the things around them.”

Children have a need to be dependent when they are young. As children grow and develop they need to be taught the difference between rational and irrational authority. This puts a burden on the authority figures in a child's life. Children need to be taught to be independent, skeptical and open minded; to heed authority and/or to question authority when appropriate.
Children need to be taught to reason. “Reason is the activity of the mind which attempts to get through the surface to reach the core of things, to grasp what really lies behind these things, what the forces and drives are that — themselves invisible — operate and determine the manifestations.”

Sadly it's expedient to use irrational authority as a parent, a teacher, a coach, a religious leader, a boss, etc. This behavior is acceptable in our culture. Our culture in the United States accepts, if not promotes authoritarianism (bullying). Throughout history we've used our wealth and power to bully the rest of the world.

Many popular TV shows and movies honor the bullies like Dirty Harry and Jack Bauer. The rationalization is always that we only bully for goodness. The NSA/CIA is a huge bully and the fact that they are not being regulated bothers some, however, the authoritarians among us support them, blindly believing that they only bully for goodness.

Again from Eric Fromm, “But I do not want to close without emphasizing that the individual’s goal must be to become his own authority; i.e. to have a consciousness in moral issues, conviction in questions of intellect, and fidelity in emotional matters. However, the individual can only have such an inner authority if he has matured enough to understand the world with reason and love. The development of these characteristics is the basis for one’s own authority and therefore the basis for political democracy.”

I hope this explains why some people we run into won't discuss politics rationally. Most often these are Republicons, but almost all are conservatives. Liberals and progressives are more likely to be open minded and not blindly follow leaders."


Long-time DUer, *** rhett o rick ***
November 2015


https://www.democraticunderground.com/127710250

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Response to Duppers (Original post)


Response to Freelancer (Reply #13)

Fri Jun 2, 2017, 10:52 AM

17. Yes, we are by nature tribal.

In the long perspective, we are but seconds out of our caves.

It's a wonder that many have overcome that in any great number.

Thanks.


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Response to Duppers (Original post)

Fri Jun 2, 2017, 08:42 AM

14. To complete the assembly, you really need religion.

Something that trains people to ignore facts and reason in favor of faith and emotion.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 2, 2017, 10:53 AM

18. My thoughts and feelings exactly.

Thank you!

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Response to Duppers (Original post)

Fri Jun 2, 2017, 10:14 AM

15. I think children are basically born as empty vessels

Whether that emptiness is filled with Christian fundamentalism, Islam, or Wicca is a toss up. They will follow what they're taught until one of them realizes--hey, I can lead these people to my way of thinking. It may be an admirable person striving for the greater good (Gandhi), or it may be a sociopath like Trump/Hitler that is motivated by greed and visions of grandeur.

In my experience, most people born into a hard-core Christian home is like being born with Stockholm syndrome. They are so conditioned to assimilation, they wouldn't dream of questioning the reining religious authority. But a few of us survive that pounding to become independent thinkers. We question bullshit, whether it be religious or political.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 2, 2017, 10:47 AM

16. Thank You!

This is what I keep wondering about myself: why did I become such an independent thinker after growing up in such a terribly religious, misogynistic, authoritarian, rightwing family? I was subjected to the same conditioning as my two siblings. I think enduring the hardest pounding you referred to caused me to revolt. My pounding was downright child abuse.

I'm known as the black sheep and am slandered and shunned (except when they want to borrow big sums which will never again happen). Over the years their attitudes have alienated me to the point that I've lost most loyalty toward them.

There's one thing my siblings overcame: they are both vegetarian and I very much respect that! That and the fact they are most softhearted to animals. They adopt strays.

Anyway, thanks for your input, my friend.



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Response to Duppers (Original post)

Wed Jun 7, 2017, 12:15 PM

19. To be fair, the Democratic party has had a pretty intimate connection with Christianity as well.

Although certainly not with the fundy types.
Of course, the irony of Democratic Presidents in recent history attending church more often than Repub presidents seems to be lost on those xian faithful.



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Response to Duppers (Original post)

Wed Jun 7, 2017, 09:34 PM

20. Age old question, nature or nurture?

Probably both, I think authoritarians have personalities that makes fundamentalism appealing whether or not they're born into that kind of family. I've seen believers leave liberal faiths and convert to fundamentalist ones, my ex-mother-in-law was a prime example, she became a born again Baptist after being raised Methodist. And vice versa, many believers go shopping for more liberal churches because they support lgbt and women's rights.

Personally I'm in awe of atheists who manage to break away from their fundamentalist upbringing, it can't be easy especially since their families are likely to hold it against them. It must be like coming out, you find out who really loves you for who you are and who only wants to control you.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 7, 2017, 10:28 PM

21. Yes it is.

I'm known and disliked as the black sheep* of my extended family and hated by my inlaws. Loyal to facts not personalities or family. The blowback has made me a tough old cootess.






*My son bought me a little stuffed black sheep that sets on my living rm bookcase.

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Response to Duppers (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 7, 2017, 10:33 PM

22. Good for you and your son, Duppers!

They don't seem to realize that their hatred only makes us even more certain we came to the right conclusion.

One of my fav memes:



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 7, 2017, 11:11 PM

23. Love this!

Exactly how I reacted to my brother once! He was apoplectic. Beside himself. Couldn't believe that I truly DON'T believe that crap and sure I'm going to be barbeque for eternity. I should humor him but just can't.

Thanks for your kind words, beam me up Scottie.



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